NSG Senate General Discussion Thread (Former Lobby)

[The Nihilistic view]

Well I have said since the original thread that the Re-boot has been botched as it's really no different to Aurentina but instead of making it better and more expansive in scope it was actually restricted by "realism" Which is at the best of times an abstract subjective concept that depends on the base one sets for oneself.

How would you suggest making it better and more expansive in scope? I'm not an idiot, I recognize that Baltonia just ain't working like it used to, and I'm open to discussing significant changes.

I had some ideas at the time. And tried to get others to present their own ideas as well. I am sure with a proper discussion other ideas might come up. Although one big one to start off that I thought would be happening with the re-boot and I thought was one of the reasons the re-boot was being done was so we could have more interaction with the rest of the world in our alternative game world. That was one big complaint I picked up on from Aurentina was that a lot of people were frustrated by the lack of some sort of interaction like this. Of course there are a number of different ways this could be run if we went down this road but I was quite disappointed that something in this area was not done.

The constitution was really I think really one area we went backwards, because in the end it was mostly written by one guy who was indecently not an admin and wrote the constitution to suit his vision for how he saw the RP being run. That is not in the spirit of the senate to me especially as we did not even have a vote on it. We are supposed to be a legislature first and foremost, so to cut out the whole reason for the senates being from such a major body of legislation was a terrible shame. I know it was because people did not want it to take ages like before but is that not why we play this RP? To argue about stuff like this ICly? Secondly what I would have done is taken the constitution for Aurentina and held a short convention where we change a few things to suit our new nation in the manner we did before. Then we could vote on it as we did before. Second which crosses both the legislature and RPing was having a criminal code not completed yet but imposing on RPing arrests for crimes that were not listed yet. How is it possible to RP when nobody knows for sure what they are doing is allowed or not? I think that was a cock-up. Again easily solved by building on our CCotAC and then voting on it. That way we have a fixed point in time when these things apply to the RP.

I was thinking I would not come back to the re-boot but I think Beta and myself kind of dragged each other back into it and in the end it was the RPing that brought us back and the trying to stage a coup. I don't think he felt that the added restrictions and admin control was that appealing to the new setting, for my part it was that the legislative side was turning from what it was originally set up as.

[Rephesus]

If we do reboot, we should do a Caribbean island

Or maybe add land to Yucatan or something, make another Belize.

[Maklohi Vai]

How would you suggest making it better and more expansive in scope? I'm not an idiot, I recognize that Baltonia just ain't working like it used to, and I'm open to discussing significant changes.

I had some ideas at the time. And tried to get others to present their own ideas as well. I am sure with a proper discussion other ideas might come up. Although one big one to start off that I thought would be happening with the re-boot and I thought was one of the reasons the re-boot was being done was so we could have more interaction with the rest of the world in our alternative game world. That was one big complaint I picked up on from Aurentina was that a lot of people were frustrated by the lack of some sort of interaction like this. Of course there are a number of different ways this could be run if we went down this road but I was quite disappointed that something in this area was not done.

More international communication, yes. I'd go out on a limb and say I'd be willing to remove myself from being a legislator and instead control all international communication in response to what our country does. I'd cease to have an IC character in the country but remain admin powers (of course ).

The constitution was really I think really one area we went backwards, because in the end it was mostly written by one guy who was indecently not an admin and wrote the constitution to suit his vision for how he saw the RP being run. That is not in the spirit of the senate to me especially as we did not even have a vote on it. We are supposed to be a legislature first and foremost, so to cut out the whole reason for the senates being from such a major body of legislation was a terrible shame. I know it was because people did not want it to take ages like before but is that not why we play this RP? To argue about stuff like this ICly? Secondly what I would have done is taken the constitution for Aurentina and held a short convention where we change a few things to suit our new nation in the manner we did before. Then we could vote on it as we did before. Second which crosses both the legislature and RPing was having a criminal code not completed yet but imposing on RPing arrests for crimes that were not listed yet. How is it possible to RP when nobody knows for sure what they are doing is allowed or not? I think that was a cock-up. Again easily solved by building on our CCotAC and then voting on it. That way we have a fixed point in time when these things apply to the RP.

I see your point here. I think the reason people moved so quickly was that they didn't like how slowly Aurentina had gotten around to the Constitution and Criminal Code, and wanted to get those in place. In hindsight we definitely needed more input on the Constitution.

I was thinking I would not come back to the re-boot but I think Beta and myself kind of dragged each other back into it and in the end it was the RPing that brought us back and the trying to stage a coup. I don't think he felt that the added restrictions and admin control was that appealing to the new setting, for my part it was that the legislative side was turning from what it was originally set up as.

It's certainly true that the more that we try to enforce realism, there will be more restrictions on RPing. However, some of the extra-legislative stuff, like the coup, I feel wasn't at all as restricted as much as the legislation. What do you mean by the last clause of the paragraph? Are you suggesting that we need to have a more open legislative environment?

[The Union of the West]

The issue I have with the rebooted Senate is this: The idea of the Senate is about creating a nation, creating a government, creating laws, in other words, Creativity. But all of the restrictions on us based on realism have prevented that. Instead of creating a nation based on our own ideals, a nation has been created for us, with realism based only on Baltonia's geographical location. The creativity that made the Senate fun in the past is gone, and I think that has contributed to the decline in activity.

Perhaps we can move to a new nation and location. One where realism wouldn't be so restrictive. Or maybe we could even go with Persivis' World State idea, with each Senator representing a nation/region in the World Senate. I don't know which would be easier to transition into. Thoughts?

[The Nihilistic view]

I had some ideas at the time. And tried to get others to present their own ideas as well. I am sure with a proper discussion other ideas might come up. Although one big one to start off that I thought would be happening with the re-boot and I thought was one of the reasons the re-boot was being done was so we could have more interaction with the rest of the world in our alternative game world. That was one big complaint I picked up on from Aurentina was that a lot of people were frustrated by the lack of some sort of interaction like this. Of course there are a number of different ways this could be run if we went down this road but I was quite disappointed that something in this area was not done.

More international communication, yes. I'd go out on a limb and say I'd be willing to remove myself from being a legislator and instead control all international communication in response to what our country does. I'd cease to have an IC character in the country but remain admin powers (of course ).

The constitution was really I think really one area we went backwards, because in the end it was mostly written by one guy who was indecently not an admin and wrote the constitution to suit his vision for how he saw the RP being run. That is not in the spirit of the senate to me especially as we did not even have a vote on it. We are supposed to be a legislature first and foremost, so to cut out the whole reason for the senates being from such a major body of legislation was a terrible shame. I know it was because people did not want it to take ages like before but is that not why we play this RP? To argue about stuff like this ICly? Secondly what I would have done is taken the constitution for Aurentina and held a short convention where we change a few things to suit our new nation in the manner we did before. Then we could vote on it as we did before. Second which crosses both the legislature and RPing was having a criminal code not completed yet but imposing on RPing arrests for crimes that were not listed yet. How is it possible to RP when nobody knows for sure what they are doing is allowed or not? I think that was a cock-up. Again easily solved by building on our CCotAC and then voting on it. That way we have a fixed point in time when these things apply to the RP.

I see your point here. I think the reason people moved so quickly was that they didn't like how slowly Aurentina had gotten around to the Constitution and Criminal Code, and wanted to get those in place. In hindsight we definitely needed more input on the Constitution.

I was thinking I would not come back to the re-boot but I think Beta and myself kind of dragged each other back into it and in the end it was the RPing that brought us back and the trying to stage a coup. I don't think he felt that the added restrictions and admin control was that appealing to the new setting, for my part it was that the legislative side was turning from what it was originally set up as.

It's certainly true that the more that we try to enforce realism, there will be more restrictions on RPing. However, some of the extra-legislative stuff, like the coup, I feel wasn't at all as restricted as much as the legislation. What do you mean by the last clause of the paragraph? Are you suggesting that we need to have a more open legislative environment?

Not exactly, I mean the way the constitution etc was done restricted the legislature as well as some of the other OOC decisions. The first part of that sentence and the second part are not really connected. When talking about restricting LGBT legislation at least to start that is to me not a problem as long as the start period and type of country is chosen by majority so people understand the implications of the start point and the type of country chosen. So to be clear different starting scenarios are going to require different levels of limitations on a few choice issues but it's how this is decided OOCly along with certain IC things is the issue I have. If we want it to be restricted we should have such an OOC vote along with say when we choose a time period. This is because originally the senate was run by everyone, The founder (Big D I shall hence fourth call him) started something where it was up to the senate as a whole to decide on the direction. So with the Re-boot we had much more concerted admin control without true input from the senate as a whole. Which I myself challenged a couple of times such as the start date and a couple of things that had been ICly done in Aurentina. This to me is against the spirit of the senate. Admins are their to deal with those who break rules we as a groups set whether they be IC or OOC not create rules themselves or to direct the RP on their own initiative. They are custodians of the RP not it's rulers and to me some of the decisions were too close to admins being rulers by deciding things that had previously been much more of a group effort or done in an IC way through mechanisms we had as an RP decided on together.

[Maklohi Vai]

More international communication, yes. I'd go out on a limb and say I'd be willing to remove myself from being a legislator and instead control all international communication in response to what our country does. I'd cease to have an IC character in the country but remain admin powers (of course ).

I see your point here. I think the reason people moved so quickly was that they didn't like how slowly Aurentina had gotten around to the Constitution and Criminal Code, and wanted to get those in place. In hindsight we definitely needed more input on the Constitution.

It's certainly true that the more that we try to enforce realism, there will be more restrictions on RPing. However, some of the extra-legislative stuff, like the coup, I feel wasn't at all as restricted as much as the legislation. What do you mean by the last clause of the paragraph? Are you suggesting that we need to have a more open legislative environment?

Not exactly, I mean the way the constitution etc was done restricted the legislature as well as some of the other OOC decisions. The first part of that sentence and the second part are not really connected. When talking about restricting LGBT legislation at least to start that is to me not a problem as long as the start period and type of country is chosen by majority so people understand the implications of the start point and the type of country chosen. So to be clear different starting scenarios are going to require different levels of limitations on a few choice issues but it's how this is decided OOCly along with certain IC things is the issue I have. If we want it to be restricted we should have such an OOC vote along with say when we choose a time period. This is because originally the senate was run by everyone, The founder (Big D I shall hence fourth call him) started something where it was up to the senate as a whole to decide on the direction. So with the Re-boot we had much more concerted admin control without true input from the senate as a whole. Which I myself challenged a couple of times such as the start date and a couple of things that had been ICly done in Aurentina. This to me is against the spirit of the senate. Admins are their to deal with those who break rules we as a groups set whether they be IC or OOC not create rules themselves or to direct the RP on their own initiative. They are custodians of the RP not it's rulers and to me some of the decisions were too close to admins being rulers by deciding things that had previously been much more of a group effort or done in an IC way through mechanisms we had as an RP decided on together.

What I'm getting from this post and the last one is that you feel that there was not enough community input on many parts of the reboot, or not enough fishing for consensus before decisions were made, as one might say. You're spot on about what the admins are for this RP, custodians, and while I understand your point about the occasional veering towards ruling the RP, I think that's actually a perfect argument for you to use to back up the claim of a lack of consensus. In terms of realism enforcement, we were acting based on the input we were receiving, which was not as much as I, you, or frankly anyone else would have liked. The input was more complaining then constructive criticism, and that's a problem. For a reboot, we'd need to take a lot longer to get it set up and parameters established, I suppose.

The issue I have with the rebooted Senate is this: The idea of the Senate is about creating a nation, creating a government, creating laws, in other words, Creativity. But all of the restrictions on us based on realism have prevented that. Instead of creating a nation based on our own ideals, a nation has been created for us, with realism based only on Baltonia's geographical location. The creativity that made the Senate fun in the past is gone, and I think that has contributed to the decline in activity.

Perhaps we can move to a new nation and location. One where realism wouldn't be so restrictive. Or maybe we could even go with Persivis' World State idea, with each Senator representing a nation/region in the World Senate. I don't know which would be easier to transition into. Thoughts?

The World State is certainly an interesting idea, but I need to see a lot more work done on drafting it up, even conceptually, before we can even consider it. As for a reboot to a new nation, if we wanted to have something less restrictive in terms of OOC vs. IC clash we could go to a more liberal part of the world. We've already done Western Europe, so how about something around Australia? There would be an obvious backstory to build off of and when we had awful Prime Ministers we could just say we were being realistic .

[The Nihilistic view]

Yeah, I would say that is about spot on where I am coming from.

[The Union of the West]

The issue I have with the rebooted Senate is this: The idea of the Senate is about creating a nation, creating a government, creating laws, in other words, Creativity. But all of the restrictions on us based on realism have prevented that. Instead of creating a nation based on our own ideals, a nation has been created for us, with realism based only on Baltonia's geographical location. The creativity that made the Senate fun in the past is gone, and I think that has contributed to the decline in activity.

Perhaps we can move to a new nation and location. One where realism wouldn't be so restrictive. Or maybe we could even go with Persivis' World State idea, with each Senator representing a nation/region in the World Senate. I don't know which would be easier to transition into. Thoughts?

The World State is certainly an interesting idea, but I need to see a lot more work done on drafting it up, even conceptually, before we can even consider it. As for a reboot to a new nation, if we wanted to have something less restrictive in terms of OOC vs. IC clash we could go to a more liberal part of the world. We've already done Western Europe, so how about something around Australia? There would be an obvious backstory to build off of and when we had awful Prime Ministers we could just say we were being realistic .

I like the Australia-area idea. Although I would prefer the World State, I realize it would be difficult to draft up and conceptualize.

[Unicario]

Perhaps a fantasy continent on Earth that is inhabited by all sorts of groups, that provides justifications for Germans, French, Americans, etc. The state is brand new, settled by people from all over the world who wanted to make a new start. Rich people, poor people, middle class. No man left out.

[Britanno]

The issue I have with the rebooted Senate is this: The idea of the Senate is about creating a nation, creating a government, creating laws, in other words, Creativity. But all of the restrictions on us based on realism have prevented that. Instead of creating a nation based on our own ideals, a nation has been created for us, with realism based only on Baltonia's geographical location. The creativity that made the Senate fun in the past is gone, and I think that has contributed to the decline in activity.

The point is, we already did that. If I remember rightly, the first justifications for starting in Eastern Europe came from the idea that it would allow for more extremist groups, but not enough extremist members came over to the reboot. In Aurentina, there were literally no restrictions on realism and the senate went dead. We thought realism might offer a better option, but the conclusion was the same.

Think about it, the senate was always going to have a time limit. We can't go on making laws forever. We came up with some ideas, but now we've run out. We tried something different (East Europe with realism), but that went inactive. We can go on about what would make the RP better, but nothing can be suggested that will make the RP permanently active. That's the simple truth.

[Rephesus]

Perhaps a fantasy continent on Earth that is inhabited by all sorts of groups, that provides justifications for Germans, French, Americans, etc. The state is brand new, settled by people from all over the world who wanted to make a new start. Rich people, poor people, middle class. No man left out.

We could use Mu. People used to think there was another contingent in the pacific...

[Rephesus]

Perhaps a fantasy continent on Earth that is inhabited by all sorts of groups, that provides justifications for Germans, French, Americans, etc. The state is brand new, settled by people from all over the world who wanted to make a new start. Rich people, poor people, middle class. No man left out.

We could use Mu. People used to think there was another continent in the pacific...

[The New World Oceania]

We'll keep shrinking until we're basing our nation off of Sealand

Yes.

Sealand would be rad.

But another reboot does not seem imminent, to me. Take that as you will.

[Maryginia]

I'll be honest, What draws me here is the RP. I would like a second re-boot, but have, less realism, and in the Caribbean.

[Rephesus]

Our very own Aruba?

[The Union of the West]

Yes.

Sealand would be rad.

But another reboot does not seem imminent, to me. Take that as you will.

Maybe not a reboot, just some significant changes.

The issue I have with the rebooted Senate is this: The idea of the Senate is about creating a nation, creating a government, creating laws, in other words, Creativity. But all of the restrictions on us based on realism have prevented that. Instead of creating a nation based on our own ideals, a nation has been created for us, with realism based only on Baltonia's geographical location. The creativity that made the Senate fun in the past is gone, and I think that has contributed to the decline in activity.

The point is, we already did that. If I remember rightly, the first justifications for starting in Eastern Europe came from the idea that it would allow for more extremist groups, but not enough extremist members came over to the reboot. In Aurentina, there were literally no restrictions on realism and the senate went dead. We thought realism might offer a better option, but the conclusion was the same.

Think about it, the senate was always going to have a time limit. We can't go on making laws forever. We came up with some ideas, but now we've run out. We tried something different (East Europe with realism), but that went inactive. We can go on about what would make the RP better, but nothing can be suggested that will make the RP permanently active. That's the simple truth.

You're right, an RP cannot last forever. And Baltonia was founded on some good ideas. But if you look at how long Baltonia lasted compared to Aurentina, it's quite clear that something went wrong. If we want to keep the Senate alive, we need to keep trying new things, keep trying to expand our size and members.

[Gothmogs]

Perhaps a fantasy continent on Earth that is inhabited by all sorts of groups, that provides justifications for Germans, French, Americans, etc. The state is brand new, settled by people from all over the world who wanted to make a new start. Rich people, poor people, middle class. No man left out.

I really like this idea. It allows far more creativity than what we ever had before.

[The Liberated Territories]

I find the idea of rebooting a third time to be cumbersome. Instead, everyone should take a break from the senate for a few months, and then we can restart a new.

I seriously don't believe that going in the complete opposition direct (a fantasy continent with a whole bunch of creativity) is the best choice. Rather we should continually strive for a balance. A balance in between realism and fantasy, terrorism and peace, etc.

Now that I think about it, I honestly preferred Aurentina. It had it's own language, culture, an updatable map (thanks to NB), etc. My only schtick of Aurentina was the location - I would of preferred it to be in one of two places: off the coast of France in the Bay of Biscay, or in between Denmark and England in the North Sea. I kind of prefer the latter, as it is wide enough to support an island of at least 30-50 million, and would probably be Germanic, making the culture seem more reasonable.

Another thing is guys, we should telegram former members why they left (to get an idea of what went wrong) and also to ask if they are interested in rejoining under a refreshed Aurentina.

I'd wait until Summer's over in the Senate, however. Perhaps early October/late September.

[The Union of the West]

I find the idea of rebooting a third time to be cumbersome. Instead, everyone should take a break from the senate for a few months, and then we can restart a new.

I seriously don't believe that going in the complete opposition direct (a fantasy continent with a whole bunch of creativity) is the best choice. Rather we should continually strive for a balance. A balance in between realism and fantasy, terrorism and peace, etc.

Now that I think about it, I honestly preferred Aurentina. It had it's own language, culture, an updatable map (thanks to NB), etc. My only schtick of Aurentina was the location - I would of preferred it to be in one of two places: off the coast of France in the Bay of Biscay, or in between Denmark and England in the North Sea. I kind of prefer the latter, as it is wide enough to support an island of at least 30-50 million, and would probably be Germanic, making the culture seem more reasonable.

Another thing is guys, we should telegram former members why they left (to get an idea of what went wrong) and also to ask if they are interested in rejoining under a refreshed Aurentina.

I'd wait until Summer's over in the Senate, however. Perhaps early October/late September.

I agree with most of this, but I don't think we should wait that long.

[New Bierstaat]

Since we're askin former members why they left, I'll come back and give my reasons.

90% of why I left was the fact that I felt it was time to kick my perennial media addiction. Between this, the Senate prediction thread, and other online pursuits, I was spending way too much time that should have been spent on work and spending time with my girlfriend (now wife), among other things. I decided I hadn't been budgeting my time effectively, so I decided to cut down on my time spent online (now about 1/2 to 1 hour/day).

10% of the reason was the fact that I didn't think a former Soviet state would be as exciting. This provided a convenient point at which to break away.

If you were to make a return to Aurentina, I'd consider returning with minor roles after a little while. I did enjoy the RP, but I had simply been putting too much time into it to be a good student, husband, etc. (not that that's any fault of the RP, of course).

So there you go. One opinion of many different ones, I'm sure.

[Russian Socialist Soviet States]

The reboot should either be in Germany. America, or Arendelle.

[New Bierstaat]

The reboot should either be in Germany. America, or Arendelle.

I worry that any of those would get too scripted.

[The Union of the West]

The reboot should either be in Germany. America, or Arendelle.

I worry that any of those would get too scripted.

Very scripted, considering those nations actually exist (except Arendelle). And a resounding NO to Arendelle.

[Russian Socialist Soviet States]

I worry that any of those would get too scripted.

Very scripted, considering those nations actually exist (except Arendelle). And a resounding NO to Arendelle.

Why no to Arendelle?

[Unicario]

Very scripted, considering those nations actually exist (except Arendelle). And a resounding NO to Arendelle.

Why no to Arendelle?

because Frozen is an over-rated piece of trash churned out by the morons at Disney who lost their touch for animated films when they launched Cars 2.