[DEFEATED] Commend Benevolent Thomas

[Cormactopia II]

I'm curious if, as a citizen of Osiris, you will be pursuing this proposal following the Grey Wardens' seizure of Osiris' territory, Islamic Republics of Iran.

Regardless, despite my earlier statement of support, I will now be voting against this proposal. I would encourage any region that raids -- whether that region is raider, imperialist, independent, or some other label -- to vote against this or any commendation of Benevolent Thomas as well; the Grey Wardens will probably invade your region if they get the opportunity, and then laugh about that time you voted for their First Warden's commendation. They're not the cool new guys anymore, they're just, y'know, the enemy.

[Korallia]

It feels ridiculously redundant to even try to point out the hypocrisy anymore, but the only thing that changed between the time you initially supported this commendation and now is that you were on the receiving end of the very actions listed in the commendation you originally supported.

It's entertaining how little "non-defenders" seem to care about sovereignty until they feel that their own has been infringed upon.

[Gradea]

It feels ridiculously redundant to even try to point out the hypocrisy anymore, but the only thing that changed between the time you initially supported this commendation and now is that you were on the receiving end of the very actions listed in the commendation you originally supported.

It's entertaining how little "non-defenders" seem to care about sovereignty until they feel that their own has been infringed upon.

You are complaining how we "non-defenders" do not give a damn about regional sovereignty then you turn around and support an organization which raids raider regions? Your regional sovereignty, moral high ground, "nose-down-at-the-darkspawn-boys" rubbish clearly does not apply in this instance.

I will find extremely hypocritical of the defender-leaning Security Council if it chooses to pass this resolution. If the members of the Security Council wish to value the rights of the native, it would be wise of them to vote against this resolution.

Basically, this proposal can be summed in the following:

1) That Benevolent Thomas has held some positions in some regions somewhere across NationStates. Hardly commendation worthy.
2) That Benevolent Thomas has done some defending. Once again, hardly commendation worthy.
3) That he has refounded some regions. If every player that did this got a commendation, the value of a Security Council commendation would be sorely cheapened.
4) That he has repaired relationships between the Rejected Realms and 10000 Islands. I would hardly call this action "humanitarian". Diplomatic yes, humanitarian no.

In conclusion, if any member of the WA values the security of their region and the rights of a nation to be safe from raiding, I urge you to vote against this resolution.

~Gradea Sanguine~

[Louisistan]

Comparing the invasion of raider regions, who are perfectly aware of how R/D works to the invasions of unsuspecting founderless regions who want to play a political simulator without being ejected from their homes for shits and giggles of few seems to be a sport these days.It's like the chicken and the egg. The egg was there long before the dinosaurs that laid them evolved into chicken.
Raiders invade other regions first, which makes them viable targets for invasions themselves. After all, if you can't take a spoonful of your own medicine, maybe you shouldn't be selling it?

3) That he has refounded some regions. If every player that did this got a commendation, the value of a Security Council commendation would be sorely cheapened.

Prey tell, how many refounds have you performed, or even been involved in? I would say refounds, especially of active regions, are among the hardest things to pull off on NS.

[Gradea]

Comparing the invasion of raider regions, who are perfectly aware of how R/D works to the invasions of unsuspecting founderless regions who want to play a political simulator without being ejected from their homes for shits and giggles of few seems to be a sport these days.It's like the chicken and the egg. The egg was there long before the dinosaurs that laid them evolved into chicken.
Raiders invade other regions first, which makes them viable targets for invasions themselves. After all, if you can't take a spoonful of your own medicine, maybe you shouldn't be selling it?

So every region is entitled to sovereignty unless you're a region that raids then you're a target? How hypocritical. If raider regions deserve to be destroyed for the greater good of NationStates or whatever, what exactly do we define as a raider region? Is the Land of Kings and Emperors a raider region due to the fact that it has a regional military that raids (even though the LKE does not identify as a raider region)? What about Balder, they raid? Surely they must be destroyed as well for the greater good of all the poor suffering natives. What about the Communist Bloc or Europeia or USSD or the North Pacific or the Kingdom of Alexandria or United Kingdom or any other major region in the game which raids? Do they classify as "raider regions" in your books and therefore, according to the phony logic presented by the likes of 'defender' groups such as the Grey Wardens and TITO, are deserving to be destroyed for the good of the world and humanity and all that? I quite enjoyed your dinosaur, egg and chicken allegory though.

Prey tell, how many refounds have you performed, or even been involved in? I would say refounds, especially of active regions, are among the hardest things to pull off on NS.

I fail to understand how this is of any consequence. Your arguments are so unconvincing that you result to using the old ad hominen attack. Never goes out of style.

[Louisistan]

Comparing the invasion of raider regions, who are perfectly aware of how R/D works to the invasions of unsuspecting founderless regions who want to play a political simulator without being ejected from their homes for shits and giggles of few seems to be a sport these days.It's like the chicken and the egg. The egg was there long before the dinosaurs that laid them evolved into chicken.
Raiders invade other regions first, which makes them viable targets for invasions themselves. After all, if you can't take a spoonful of your own medicine, maybe you shouldn't be selling it?

So every region is entitled to sovereignty unless you're a region that raids then you're a target?

Yes. Basically this. Call it hipocrisy all you want. I'm not the one running around shouting "oh no, TGW invaded us, they are so evil, let's declare war on them".

I fail to understand how this is of any consequence. Your arguments are so unconvincing that you result to using the old ad hominen attack. Never goes out of style.

On the contrary. I'm trying to assess whether you know what you're talking about. Because that's relevant for those who may be inclined to follow your reasoning. I don't go asking the Amish for computer advice.

[Shizensky]

You are complaining how we "non-defenders" do not give a damn about regional sovereignty then you turn around and support an organization which raids raider regions? Your regional sovereignty, moral high ground, "nose-down-at-the-darkspawn-boys" rubbish clearly does not apply in this instance.

When organizations actively seek to infringe upon the sovereignty of other regions, particularly those who often aren't even aware of the existence of a raider threat, I will not sympathize with them if they cry over their own regions and trophies being attacked. If they are going to constantly victim blame raided regions for not properly securing their region, I will not sympathize with them if they cry over losing a "colony" they couldn't even be arsed to keep a nation in. Why should raiders expect immunity from the very sort of operation they so brag about constantly?

So yes, I do fully believe that the "regional sovereignty, moral high ground, "nose-down-at-the-darkspawn-boys" rubbish" clearly does apply. No longer can invaders raid with impunity. "You get what you give", and what has been given is coming back around. The Wardens promised from the start that they would take the fight to the raiders, and until a "non-defender" was raided, they gave their complete support to the text of the proposal.

When the raiders are raided, I'm not going to feel bad for them - I am going to celebrate it. When Thomas told me he was thinking of bringing the Wardens back and he expressed his desire to actively pursue targets belonging to "non-raiders" (the doublespeak you guys insist on these days is glorious, by the way), I was his biggest supporter.

And no, I'm not complaining that raiders don't give a damn about regional sovereignty, I'm simply pointing out that they sound like the countless natives they've mocked for over a decade. The only difference this time is that it's someone with a bigger microphone doing the whining. How often have we seen raiders express that they actually have fun when natives cry about an invasion? The world is expected to sympathize with invaders now? That's insane.

[General Knot]

Eurosoviets and Xhadam would be proud of you, Shiz.

[Cormactopia II]

It feels ridiculously redundant to even try to point out the hypocrisy anymore, but the only thing that changed between the time you initially supported this commendation and now is that you were on the receiving end of the very actions listed in the commendation you originally supported.

Obviously I'm going to care more about hostility toward my own region with an active community that is loyal to the region and a population of thousands, and hostility toward our allies, compared to defunct regions Osiris never had any relationship with (Madrigal, Brotherhood of Shadows) or an abandoned fascist jump point that I would be glad to raid myself (Martial Arts Dojo).

The world is expected to sympathize with invaders now? That's insane.

I never asked for sympathy from defenders or their armchair sympathizers, and for the record, I don't want it. I've gotten quite used to defenders despising me, and to regarding your enmity as a badge of honor and point of pride. I really very much enjoy it. I simply encouraged regions that engage in raiding, also known as targets of the Grey Wardens' extremist war, to vote against this proposal.

[Shizensky]

Eurosoviets and Xhadam would be proud of you, Shiz.

A former Field Marshal of DEN comparing me to forum crashers? I'm getting the feeling that the irony is completely lost on you.

[General Knot]

Eurosoviets and Xhadam would be proud of you, Shiz.

A former Field Marshal of DEN comparing me to forum crashers? I'm getting the feeling that the irony is completely lost on you.

I was noting how similar your spiel sounded to that of the RLA. Just give it a few more months.

On a side note, what is perhaps the most amusing part of the whole situation to me was how Invaders released a statement, condemning Meri and Jargon for the attack on the basis of the Convention for Espionage and Warfare, and then annulled the treaty the very next day.

[Funkadelia]

Can you not threadjack this please, thanks.

[Stalker Queen]

The proposal "Commend Benevolent Thomas" has been submitted.

[Louisistan]

The proposal "Commend Benevolent Thomas" has been submitted.

Approved!

[We Are Not the NSA]

I went to discord immediately to insist that Tom approve it, then realized he already did.

[Europe and Oceania]

We approved this.

[Melon feud]

Well normally we drop ' wardens' on sight/ targets of opportunity!,,, but ya' know gang?
This Thomas cat IS the FIRST WARDEN OF BENEVOLENCE!!!
therefore we'll not only head pop him at 500 yards sniper style,,, We'll vote YES!

[Adytus]

From the Osiris Fraternal Order
And the office of the Vizier of World Assembly Affairs

---

---

“After discussion between the community, and with consent from the Pharaoh and the respected gods that rule over truth, writing and wisdom, Ma’at and Seshat, the Pharaoh will cast his vote AGAINST this proposal. The Pharaoh follows the will of the gods, and the will of the people. If the author, or any party interested would like to change this ruling, you are welcome to come to Osiris and let your will be known, present your case, and perhaps change the opinions of those who call the Nile home. It is with great appreciation that the community will welcome your thoughts; however, if you have something that you would like to direct towards the region regarding this vote, or the government, please send a telegram to Adytus, and my office will get back to you as quickly as possible. For more general concerns or questions regarding Osiris, please contact the Pharaoh, Cormactopia II. Ambassadors, thank you for your time and understanding. My office, and the Osiris Fraternal Order greatly appreciate those who contribute to the development of the Security Council, and will continue to encourage author nations, as well as other nations interested in defining the scope of the Security Council, to continue their work to the fullest, whether we are in disagreement or not. Let the wisdom of Seshat, and the truth of Ma’at follow you in all your endeavors.

Best Regards,
The Vizier of World Assembly Affairs, Adytus.

"

[Funkadelia]

Thank you for this surprising and groundbreaking reading material.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

Full support. Never interacted with personally, but I've seen the good works done by this guy.

Shame the SC is crushing this with a landslide.

[Eluvatar]

Fat lady isn't singing yet.

[Dobbs]

Why is voting so overwhelmingly against this right now? I voted for it. If we can't commend Benevolent Thomas can we at least condemn Benevolent Thomas? I would be willing to vote in favor of either commending or condemning such a nation, depending on whether you think they are good or bad. Since I am morally neutral but in favor of voting yes on most things, I say, vote yes on this, and also anything else in the General Assembly or Security Council, always vote yes on everything! I am a devout yes-ist. I can't imagine any proposal I would ever vote no to. I am sick of the Party Of No obstructing everything by voting no instead of yes. The previous Security Council proposal to commend Lone Wolves United also got defeated and I think people should have voted yes on it too. If people keep voting no we will never get anything accomplished. OK, sure, half the time people vote yes on things, but it should be 100% of the time, that way we can get more stuff accomplished, and if we ever do something bad we can just correct it later.

[LollerLand]

Why is voting so overwhelmingly against this right now? I voted for it. If we can't commend Benevolent Thomas can we at least condemn Benevolent Thomas? I would be willing to vote in favor of either commending or condemning such a nation, depending on whether you think they are good or bad. Since I am morally neutral but in favor of voting yes on most things, I say, vote yes on this, and also anything else in the General Assembly or Security Council, always vote yes on everything! I am a devout yes-ist. I can't imagine any proposal I would ever vote no to. I am sick of the Party Of No obstructing everything by voting no instead of yes. The previous Security Council proposal to commend Lone Wolves United also got defeated and I think people should have voted yes on it too. If people keep voting no we will never get anything accomplished. OK, sure, half the time people vote yes on things, but it should be 100% of the time, that way we can get more stuff accomplished, and if we ever do something bad we can just correct it later.

Umm.. No.

[Lynopia]

Sincerely hoping that this fails.

[Shizensky]

The Renegade Islands Alliance puts our full support behind this resolution. Benevolent Thomas was an outstanding protector of our region during my absence, and for that I owe him a debt which I'm not certain can ever be repaid.