[PASSED] Commend Hell

[Yokiria]

If we're done trying to repeal The Pacific, I'd like to take a moment of your time to talk to you about... Commending Hell.
Seriously.

Description: The Security Council,

Aware of the irony,

Recognizing that the founding nation of Hell, SATAN, no longer exists,

Recalling that in similar situations, regional communities usually displace and sometimes disband,

Indicating Hell as a particularly bright exception to the aforementioned rule,

Applauding the unique model used by Hell's native community to protect themselves from invasion while still accepting newcomers,

Noting that the native community requires newcomers to pass a series of tests while residing in its sister region, Underworld,

Further noting that nations in Hell are required to hold membership in the WA, and that the pathway to enter Hell is changed before and after new nation(s) are provided prearranged entry,

Observing that Hell has its own regional publication named "Hell's Bells", which is driven by native nations' submissions to the publication and helps keep the region alive,

Amazed by the founderless community's exceptional tolerance of nations with diverse backgrounds, both within and outside of their community,

Praising the Hell community for its extraordinary resolve in enduring hardship, and its strive in protecting itself from invaders,

Encouraging other regions and communities to look to Hell as a role model when under the threat of displacement and invasion,

Hereby Commends Hell.

Speaking as a raider, what this region did to protect itself is above and beyond what I'd expect even from an experienced gameplay community facing a DoS'd founder. Now, I'm no Security Council buff, so I'd appreciate some help with this.

EDIT: Thank you to those that submitted more information about Hell to me.
EDIT 2: So, this proposal passed quorum with 125 approvals and was at vote, but was mod-removed because of some minor language. Let's get this back to where it was, please.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

First impression; nicely written, I like the way you've managed to avoid using words like "password", even though that's a legal term. The phrase about colliding with a large hammer also made me chuckle.

While the region has come up with a seemingly unique method for preventing tag raids, I personally don't think that's enough by itself to warrant a commendation.

[Yokiria]

First impression; nicely written, I like the way you've managed to avoid using words like "password", even though that's a legal term. The phrase about colliding with a large hammer also made me chuckle.

While the region has come up with a seemingly unique method for preventing tag raids, I personally don't think that's enough by itself to warrant a commendation.

Thanks for the compliments on my writing. As for whether or not it warrants a commendation, you're entitled to your opinion. I do want to make the point, though, that their method not only prevents tag raids, but makes sleeper raids essentially impossible.

They really don't get the recognition they deserve for how much they fortified their region against raids of all types. This is an attempt to remedy that.

[Cormactopia II]

Hell is one of the few founderless user-created regions that has successfully secured itself without completely closing its doors, using a process that enables them to get to know newcomers. That process also seems to instill a sense of regionalism and loyalty among newcomers. I think all of that is commendable, because it's a uniquely positive development by a founderless region.

You may also want to flesh the proposal out a bit by noting that Hell is also welcoming to people of diverse backgrounds and is on good terms with regions of diverse backgrounds, because that is also somewhat unique among founderless regions.

Full support for this proposal.

[We Are Not the NSA]

Description: The Security Council,

Recognizing that the founding nation of Hell, SATAN, no longer exists due to a disastrous collision with a large hammer.

I LOLed so hard at this. XD Personal opinion: I usually end clauses with periods so the proposal seems more fluid overall. Periods are fine though, so if you disagree just ignore that suggestion.

Recalling that in similar situations, regional communities will displace and usually disband.

I think it's actually usually displace and sometimes disband.

Indicating Hell as a particularly bright exception to the aforementioned rule.

Because it's on fire... I see what you did there.

Applauding the unique model used by Hell's native community to protect themselves from invasion while still accepting newcomers.

Correct me if I am wrong: Hell uses a staging point region to vet individuals before allowing them into the actual region, right?

Noting that the native community requires newcomers to pass a series of tests while residing in its sister region, Underworld.

question answered.

Further noting that nations in Hell are required to hold membership in the WA, and that the pathway to enter Hell is changed before and after new nation(s) are provided prearranged entry.

Amazed by the community's acceptance of nations with diverse backgrounds, both within and outside of their community, when considering the mistrust commonly seen in founderless regions' communities.

It's kind of oxymoronic to have a clause commending a region for being trusting directly after outlining their exceptionally complicated (but effective) system of allowing new nations to enter their region. I think I'll play devil's advocate here and claim the opposite: Hell is less trusting than most founderless regions. And that's not a bad thing. Look at Japan: twice in one year they have been invaded after giving their password to an infiltrator. Hell has never been invaded.

Praising the Hell community for its extraordinary strive in protecting itself from invaders.

Meh. While Hell does have exceptional defences, I hardly think they're worth commending over.

Encouraging other regions and communities under the threat of displacement and invasion to look to Hell in the future as an example of how to defend themselves effectively.

Declaring that though raider regions claim our proposals as 'badges of honor', that Hell and its community may look upon this as a true badge of honor.

Please no. Just... no. Let's not bring the badge of honor argument into a discussion it doesn't belong in.

Speaking as a raider, what this region did to protect itself is above and beyond what I'd expect even from an experienced gameplay community facing a DoS'd founder. Now, I'm no Security Council buff, so I'd appreciate some help with this.

Ehh, I wouldn't say that. It doesn't take a genius to come up with Hell's system (it does take coordination and dedication to employ though). It's well written, and in regards to merit I could be convinced. It focuses too heavily on one aspect of Hell, an aspect that isn't necessarily commendable. Hell is known for plenty of other things though, so it should be easy to focus on Hell's other attributes.

I will support after redrafting.

[Yokiria]

I think it's actually usually displace and sometimes disband.

Edit made.

It's kind of oxymoronic to have a clause commending a region for being trusting directly after outlining their exceptionally complicated (but effective) system of allowing new nations to enter their region. I think I'll play devil's advocate here and claim the opposite: Hell is less trusting than most founderless regions. And that's not a bad thing. Look at Japan: twice in one year they have been invaded after giving their password to an infiltrator. Hell has never been invaded.

I reworded that section to avoid this sort of confusion. Hell tolerates, not necessarily accepts (ie 'Come on in!') nations of diverse backgrounds. They still have to go through the same heavy security measures everyone else does.

Please no. Just... no. Let's not bring the badge of honor argument into a discussion it doesn't belong in.

Okay, okay. I added it on a whim, I can remove it on a whim.

Ehh, I wouldn't say that. It doesn't take a genius to come up with Hell's system (it does take coordination and dedication to employ though). It's well written, and in regards to merit I could be convinced. It focuses too heavily on one aspect of Hell, an aspect that isn't necessarily commendable. Hell is known for plenty of other things though, so it should be easy to focus on Hell's other attributes.

I will support after redrafting.

I redrafted. I agree it doesn't take a genius to produce their system, but as you said, the coordination and dedication to deploy it is special. I believe the dedication to keep it deployed has to be special as well. Hell is a gem on NS in that right.

So, you say that Hell is known for plenty of other things. I included Hell's Bells... What else are they known for? I went into this heavily focusing on how ridiculously safe they made themselves because that's mainly what I've known about them. Some assistance would be nice.

[Evil Wolf]

I support this proposal.

I've never invaded a Commended region before and adding one to Hell would more than motivate me to raid it. Again.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Can someone explain Hell's connection to the Nazi elements of GP for me?

[Cormactopia II]

Can someone explain Hell's connection to the Nazi elements of GP for me?

Captain Woodhouse from Nazi Europa has resided there with a puppet. As far as I know, that's the extent of the connection.

[Floor 448]

I sincerely hope you can vote-stack this enough to sell "Hell is pretty good" to the lemmings. I wish you luck

[Yokiria]

Can someone explain Hell's connection to the Nazi elements of GP for me?

Captain Woodhouse from Nazi Europa has resided there with a puppet. As far as I know, that's the extent of the connection.

Hell was actually raided and occupied in 2014 by Captain Woodhouse, with the help of Nazi Europa, The Greater German Reich, The Fascist Union, Nationalsozialistische Volksstaaten, Fifth Empire, The Western Empire, and Zarathustra. The natives of Hell came to a truce with were no longer the top priority of Woodhouse, and that was the event that ended up created the unique system that Hell has today.

Hell still considers itself at war with Nazis.

[Cormactopia II]

Hell was actually raided and occupied in 2014 by Captain Woodhouse, with the help of Nazi Europa, The Greater German Reich, The Fascist Union, Nationalsozialistische Volksstaaten, Fifth Empire, The Western Empire, and Zarathustra. The natives of Hell came to a truce with Woodhouse, and that was the event that ended up created the unique system that Hell has today.

Hell still considers itself at war with Nazis.

Prior to that, though, Woodhouse resided there peacefully and his identity was known to at least some of the other residents there. I'm not saying it makes Hell unworthy of commendation -- Woodhouse is just one person, and is not actually a Nazi or fascist -- I just want to make sure the full story is known.

Woodhouse's previous residency really shouldn't be seen as a "Nazi connection." Or at least not one significant enough to bring Hell into disrepute.

[Yokiria]

I wasn't aware of anything involving Nazi nations, until I was made aware by some people with knowledge of Hell that the region was invaded by a coalition of Nazi & fascist regions (lead by Captain Woodhouse) about two years ago, and that Hell considers itself at war with Nazis.

The more you know!

[Yokiria]

UPDATE! Just submitted this, after sprucing up the formatting a bit. Now to reach quorum!

[Jakker]

The only majorly commendable thing here is the entry to Hell, which was created and led by The Stalker. He also already been commended by the SC and this was included in that commendation. Therefore, this proposal sort of feels redundant to me.

[Yokiria]

I don't understand why it should feel redundant, since the commendation for the nation you're talking about was repealed. Nobody in Hell has a commendation right now.
Hell as a region does not have a Commendation right now, either. But I hope I can fix that soon.

Also, perhaps the commendation for that single nation was repealed because, in reality, it's the whole region that should be Commended for its unique, strong, regional defenses.
Not just one player.

[Alustrian]

I don't understand why it should feel redundant, since the commendation for the nation you're talking about was repealed. Nobody in Hell has a commendation right now.
Hell as a region does not have a Commendation right now, either. But I hope I can fix that soon.

Also, perhaps the commendation for that single nation was repealed because, in reality, it's the whole region that should be Commended for its unique, strong, regional defenses.
Not just one player.

Could you link to the repeal? Unless there is some glitch, the SC archives that I see show the commendation as active.

[Sea Lion]

Perhaps Yokiria should take a look at Forever Fields instead of the delegate of Hell.

[Jakker]

I don't understand why it should feel redundant, since the commendation for the nation you're talking about was repealed. Nobody in Hell has a commendation right now.
Hell as a region does not have a Commendation right now, either. But I hope I can fix that soon.

Also, perhaps the commendation for that single nation was repealed because, in reality, it's the whole region that should be Commended for its unique, strong, regional defenses.
Not just one player.

I apologize for not being more clear. I was referring to the commendation of Forever Fields found here: http://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pas ... /start=170

In it, it states:

"Further Acknowledging that the nominee controls The Stalker, the current delegate of founderless region, Hell,

Commending the valiant efforts placed upon strengthening the security of Hell, after multiple raids in its history, with a unique hierarchy, which requires all incoming nations to go through trials before being allowed entry,

Highlighting the trials to enter Hell, including being familiar with the region’s community and taking part in Hell’s security through World Assembly participation, as means to promote responsibility and engagement of nations"

[Cormactopia II]

I'm failing to see how this is anymore redundant than commending Ananke and Improving Wordiness for many of the same things in Commend 10000 Islands, or condemning Jakker and Mallorea and Riva for many of the same things in Condemn The Black Hawks, or condemning Gest, Halcones, and Kknight for many of the same things in Condemn The Black Riders and Condemn DEN.

Hell's screening process is a regional initiative, which The Stalker, AKA Forever Fields, had a major role in developing. TITO is a regional initiative that Ananke and Wordy had a major role in developing. Etc.

[Jakker]

I'm failing to see how this is anymore redundant than commending Ananke and Improving Wordiness for many of the same things in Commend 10000 Islands, or condemning Jakker and Mallorea and Riva for many of the same things in Condemn The Black Hawks, or condemning Gest, Halcones, and Kknight for many of the same things in Condemn The Black Riders and Condemn DEN.

Hell's screening process is a regional initiative, which The Stalker, AKA Forever Fields, had a major role in developing. TITO is a regional initiative that Ananke and Wordy had a major role in developing. Etc.

I would argue that there is a difference between this situation and those.

If you look at all of those individual proposals against the region's, the individuals list out specifics that are not included in the region's commendation/condemnation. And vice versa. The proposals have some overlapping themes, but they each stand up on their own.

Why was 1000 Islands commendable? It is definitely for their defending, which Ananke and Improving Wordiness contributed to, but there are other details listed that add to the commendation. Furthermore, the defending was not solely done by Ananke and Wordy.

Why was The Black Hawks, The Black Riders, and DEN condemnable? It is primarily because of their extensive raiding, but this was not solely done by the individuals you listed.

Why is Hell possibly commendable? It is because of their security. Their security system was designed, implemented, and currently led by the Stalker. As for as I can tell, no one else in the region has contributed much to that.

My point is that this proposal looks to commend something that one person in the region has done and that person has already been commended by the SC.

[Sedgistan]

The proposal has been removed for a Rule 4 violation, specifically this clause:

Recognizing that the founding nation of Hell, SATAN, no longer exists due to a disastrous collision with a large hammer,

[Yokiria]

I really didn't think that was a R4 violation.

[Floor 448]

I really didn't think that was a R4 violation.

Protip: appeal the ruling before you resubmit.

[Yokiria]

I really didn't think that was a R4 violation.

Protip: appeal the ruling before you resubmit.

I'd rather take the ruling and keep on rolling.