[Draft] Liberate The Black Riders

[The Silver Sentinel]

why do you enjoy trying to take a region away from its rightful owners? Because I thought that you only defended because you enjoy defending. That sounds a lot more like the attitude a raider would have towards the situation.

Nobody is taking anything away from anyone. A liberation isn't going to kick you out of the region is it? Maybe you guys should come up with a different argument from now on, as you are really starting to sound a lot like RP'ers who don't like to be dragged into gameplay and moralist defenders. Be careful or we might have to start calling you Unibot.

[Cora II]

EWS, as it seems to me very much that your native pile is determined to stay in a mud trenches digged for hedgehog defense on a weathered hill around the rotting carcass of black horse, why not indeed guard a bones of steed under the clear sky, sun shining over the mountains as well? More challenging that way, right?

If/when some random raiders someday celebrate the grandiose memory of the ceased one, by requesting embassies from tags made using and following the classic protocol, do you as a native chiefstain accept those humble requests as a reminder of past, when black cloaked warriors still assaulted through the tagfields fierce and savage blood rage of destruction in their eyes, and grand armies marched over petty nativedoms without mercy? Do you?

[Knot]

Names not Chester

Sorry about that, Chester.

[New Tuva SSR]

ANY attempt to revive the Black Riders will be defeated because the majority of nations and regions do not want them and will reject them.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

ANY attempt to revive the Black Riders will be defeated because the majority of nations and regions do not want them and will reject them.

Sadly, no native seems to understand that my goal here is not to revive anything - rather, to ensure it stays respectfully deceased.

Names not Chester

Sure, I'll take your word over apparently coincidental timing, perfectly fitting behavior, campaigning for UFoC resolutions, and IP evidence. Does Jean work instead?

[The Silver Sentinel]

Sure, I'll take your word over apparently coincidental timing, perfectly fitting behavior, campaigning for UFoC resolutions, and IP evidence. Does Jean work instead?

What timing would that be? When have I ever campaigned for a UFoC resolution? What I.P. evidence?

[Land filled with People]

Difference is, we never pretend to care about it

I know you're talking about regional sovereignty, but when TBR was raided it was all 'we don't care, go for it', and look where so many of you are now

[Consular]

Difference is, we never pretend to care about it

I know you're talking about regional sovereignty, but when TBR was raided it was all 'we don't care, go for it', and look where so many of you are now

Saying they don't care is a core tenant of their edginess though.

[We Are Not The ATF]

Difference is, we never pretend to care about it

I know you're talking about regional sovereignty, but when TBR was raided it was all 'we don't care, go for it', and look where so many of you are now

So many? There were only 3 or 4 people from TBR involved in the TBR op.

[Cora II]

I know you're talking about regional sovereignty, but when TBR was raided it was all 'we don't care, go for it', and look where so many of you are now

So many? There were only 3 or 4 people from TBR involved in the TBR op.

That is not miracle, because TBR wide order was issued Not to defend TBR by TBR Marshal Gest. Very soon after that TBR was organisationally self-liquidated for DEN.

Natives, natives.

[Imperial Namorn]

So then the current delegate of TBR, who is from The Black Hawks not DEN, is raiding the region by that definition. People claim these proposals are designed to take the region from it's natives, but that is wrong. When did TBH become that natives? If the natives who now reside in DEN (who by DEN's own admission are not in TBR in any large numbers, and are not ordered to be there) don't want it, then that becomes a raid does it not? It's not officially supported by DEN, so it's colonizing. Of course I'm not foolish enough to believe that, but technically it's a raid not a liberation.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Difference is, we never pretend to care about it

I know you're talking about regional sovereignty, but when TBR was raided it was all 'we don't care, go for it', and look where so many of you are now

The old TBR, in a state of turmoil following the loss of two of its oldest members and it's home, was issued orders to ignore the region, and hold in the current occupation while operations were moved under the DEN banner. Going along with the fact that "all raiders are not TBR," some of us did rather wish to not have it desecrated- that, however, was not even an initial goal. This operation began with the intent to render useless the region's budding intelligence branch and defender aspirations under the ugr regime- they had, at the time, a few hundred endorsements at their beck and call, and that was a potential risk. Further operations were made on an opirtunistic basis, following unexpected turns of events, and cumulating in the idea of making it a show for raidercon- as NSA discussed in another liberation thread, an effort at humiliation, brought to the point of refound merely because it made tactical sense with the levels of influence gain and population decay ongoing. At that point, it became a question of "is another month and a half or so worth never dealing with this again?" and the answer "yes." As also mentioned elsewhere, until the past week or so, there was never any official DEN deployment there either, though some members did get involved of their own accord, in certain cases at a leadership level (NSA, McMannia, etc). The only official DEN deployment in any measure that I can recall was a short-lived deployment suggestion as Japan was pulled out from, which was shortly replaced by an order to support something else.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

So then the current delegate of TBR, who is from The Black Hawks not DEN, is raiding the region by that definition. People claim these proposals are designed to take the region from it's natives, but that is wrong. When did TBH become that natives? If the natives who now reside in DEN (who by DEN's own admission are not in TBR in any large numbers, and are not ordered to be there) don't want it, then that becomes a raid does it not? It's not officially supported by DEN, so it's colonizing. Of course I'm not foolish enough to believe that, but technically it's a raid not a liberation.

We are counter-raiding the region to recover it from it's initial invasion. It could be called a liberation, has, even- we just prefer not to use that term. We have the vocal and partial military support of many former TBR members, though TBR itself no longer exists as an organization to support our efforts. A TBR native, NSA, applied the password to the region.

[Drop Your Pants]

Not sure why this is an issue, it'll all end up in a race to poach the refound anyway. Only difference this will make is wether there's a tempting badge on top.

[Cora II]

Not sure why this is an issue, it'll all end up in a race to poach the refound anyway. Only difference this will make is wether there's a tempting badge on top.

You're wise man DYP.

All this time these "natives" could've been piling in some native region(s) for crushing it/them, instead they decided act reactively (no matter how good and well performed op.) They don't know anymore even how to define themselves when sitting there.

Sad.

Sincerely,
- Cora (9000 raids for the TBR organisation, 0 updates for defense of TBR region)

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Don't worry, there'll be plenty of "more pure" events for this council to argue about coming down the conveyor belt.

[Librica (Ancient)]

Here's a question. Why do the black riders need a region at all?

[We Are Not The ATF]

Here's a question. Why do the black riders need a region at all?

Why does The Atheist Empire need a region? It gives the more casual members of the community a way to congregate and communicate with each other. In this case, it only serves to preserve some respect for the organization, because it is fairly obvious that most non-raider founders would not show the region respect after the refound (not that I can blame them though ).

[The Silver Sentinel]

Here's a question. Why do the black riders need a region at all?

Why does The Atheist Empire need a region? It gives the more casual members of the community a way to congregate and communicate with each other. In this case, it only serves to preserve some respect for the organization, because it is fairly obvious that most non-raider founders would not show the region respect after the refound (not that I can blame them though ).

Some of us would like to turn it into a museum dedicated to all aspects of R/D, not some memorial to Halcones and the destruction left in his wake like I am willing to bet will happen.

Not sure why this is an issue, it'll all end up in a race to poach the refound anyway. Only difference this will make is wether there's a tempting badge on top.

Who's to say that Souls will actually refound it. With a password in place, he don't have to.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Do you seriously think I'd make a monument to a couple of DOS players? If so, I'm disappointing- obviously, I need to work on my PR a bit

Like the con that was held there, the intention is not to idolize a few figures in some sort of hall or worship, but to provide a reminder simply to what was. A region that became synonymous with raiding itself to much of NS, that made tagging what it is today, that could take and pile in operations with no assistance, that used it's theme and nations with names to match to the greatest possible effect in recruitment. It would be poor caretaking of me to put any more focus on two bygone players than their roles in founding and leading the region deserve. There's plenty of other people and events running through their history. No, one cannot tell of what TBR was *without* telling of Bob and Halc, but the region was far more than two men, for whom there is little love lost by me in their absence.

[The Silver Sentinel]

Do you seriously think I'd make a monument to a couple of DOS players? If so, I'm disappointing- obviously, I need to work on my PR a bit

You probably should, because I am having a hard time believing you. I don't understand it Souls, what is your real take in all of this? You're an updater, not someone who sits in a region for three months building influence so you can refound it. That was what Halc did. If this was DEN attempting to retake TBR, I could understand it, but what do you have to gain here? A publicity stunt? Being the guy that refounded TBR? What?

Answer these questions and I may start believing you. Until then, all I see happening is a shrine to two DOS's players whom worked with another DOS player were deleted, whilst a recruitment ban was put on their former region. A memorial to cheating.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

You probably should, because I am having a hard time believing you. I don't understand it Souls, what is your real take in all of this? You're an updater, not someone who sits in a region for three months building influence so you can refound it. That was what Halc did. If this was DEN attempting to retake TBR, I could understand it, but what do you have to gain here? A publicity stunt? Being the guy that refounded TBR? What?

Answer these questions and I may start believing you. Until then, all I see happening is a shrine to two DOS's players whom worked with another DOS player were deleted, whilst a recruitment ban was put on their former region. A memorial to cheating.

What do you think I owe Halc and Bob? Never been a rider, for...reasons.

I think you misinterpret me. I personally ... well, to be polite, heavily dislike tagging regularly. A run now and then is fun, and it's great for training newbies, but I don't get a kick out of it like some do. Even within our way of play, there's different ways to play

Harken back to my Sicarius days - I'm an infiltrator, and a collector. The White Hope, The Black Watch, Tofuline, The Association of Imperialism, Brannack, The Alternate History Hub, etc. I get a kick out of sneaking in well - for example, Islam, where I used the crisis in Slavija at the time to push a sleeper into Islam (a passworded embassy region at the time), became involved enough to become the foreign affairs minister, and then raided it so strangely some of the natives weren't even sure whose side I was on. I even co-authored the liberation, to ensure it failed! Why was I in TBR? At first, it was a challenge to render their intel dept useless. I used one of my least active sleepers for shits and giggles, and moved it to UGR's region though I knew he was stepping down. There, I asked about the BRU, was informed (as I knew) that it was defunct, and was pointed towards the TBR intel dept. with recommendation. There, it came down to luck. I was given a huge first assignment - background check pont, the delegate. I found some sketchy stuff, and turned in my report with a recommendation of extreme caution.... two days before he went rogue (with a little help from NSA, sure). Luck, pure luck, but luck that sealed my trust. From there, he ejected the old government, but I was below his radar, and remained in the region. The old government chose me, the highest-ranked member of the system still in the region, to be the point for the push for recovery, and...well, when that worked out by one or two endos, that's when we reorganized our outfit with new goals, more people, and different plans. At that point, it became, hey, let's make a point - first, let's take it and host Raidercon here. But there's already population decay, and if we raid it now, it won;t be much of a stunt for the event months away, will it? So we keep cover. And to keep cover,we need to keep the delegacy and establish a revised government, necessitate some political work. And hell, with all the people involved... if we're taking half the offices already, why not take them all for another stunt? It snowballed up. Post-con, I ran some numbers, and figured given a month or two, It could be refounded. In the long run, I figured that the best option, requiring minimal ongoing caretaking, and preventing an embarrassing refound by some two-bit retaggers, or worse, a revival of the thing we'd just shut down. Plus, it secures a chunk of undeniable raider heritage. As a Hawk, it's also fitting in a way - you know Halc founded TBR after leaving TBH, yes? Bringing things full circle. And regardless of all that, I have a lot of friends who tie a lot of memories to that region, so part of keeping it safe is for them. TBR may not have been my favorite org ever, but it was more than a den of cheaters. Just as AoI was more than Rifty's playroom. There's always so many more people, stories, and memories behind the figureheads.

And it's not like it's stopping me from placing more sleepers in preliminary stages now Since I don't live for tagging, I don't suffer that much being immobile.

[Tano]

And it's not like it's stopping me from placing more sleepers in preliminary stages now

*intensifies*

[Antartide]

There have been so many (failed) attemps to lib TBR. And how come those all failed? Because the whole idea is pointless.
EDIT: I'm fine with seeing TBR dead anyways.

[Wallenburg]

There have been so many (failed) attemps to lib TBR. And how come those all failed? Because the whole idea is pointless.
EDIT: I'm fine with seeing TBR dead anyways.

Please stop gravedigging.