[DEFEATED]Liberate The Black Riders

[Dragon rider 663]

Actually, that's incorrect. If you got a couple competent guys together to spam the founding button, we'd be on a level playing field.

Your not gona convince me lol. But even still most people don't have the time or the skill. No way someone is gonna grab that refound.

I could brain wasb you.I know how. So do you like nationstates

[Xoriet]

Why should the international community gang up on one founderless region because they raid? Most of the GCR militaries have at least dabbled in raiding. Some of them have refounded communities before. Look at TNP and Nazi Europe. Osiris has refounded before, I know TEP has a few on record. Not certain of the rest so I'll refrain on that count. TBR was just the most obnoxious and flashy about it. And most universally loathed.

It's a common stance that invaders lose their right to equal treatment for playing the game their way. If more resources were devoted to preemptive action and less to playing around with international tools, we might see a lessening of community losses. I always found it sad that so many people complain and do nothing to actually help the fight to protect regions.

Refounding TBR accomplishes nothing but back-patting. I doubt many, if any, of you stand a chance at getting it back with or without a Liberation. Taking away native right to their region sets a new standard for the SC, one in which there is always an excuse to say that this group lost the right to their region because they did something people hate.

So yes, if it passes anyone can stand up and say "These natives did something I hate, so they don't deserve anything."

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

I'm also fairly convinced they have/had an auto refound script anyway.

I'm going to call bullshit here as well. C'mon Stalker, I expected a bit more than this from you. The only incident I can't say I'm 100% sure on is that one sketchy night where Bob had some Superhuman ejection speeds (and given his later discovered offenses, I wouldn't be surprised if that was some sort of script). Even then though, the actual refound attempt was to be done by an assembled group of Raiders. I've participated in a number of refounds, from two on hogwarts, Tofuline, AoI, Den, and many others, and never once has there been any evidence or even hint of any sort of automation. We get as many people online as possible and manually spam-click the found region button until whoever is observing posts that someone got it. If you believe there's any illegal automation going on there, feel free to report it, just note that it's not going to go anywhere because it doesn't happen. Period.

[Dragon rider 663]

Why should the international community gang up on one founderless region because they raid? Most of the GCR militaries have at least dabbled in raiding. Some of them have refounded communities before. Look at TNP and Nazi Europe. Osiris has refounded before, I know TEP has a few on record. Not certain of the rest so I'll refrain on that count. TBR was just the most obnoxious and flashy about it. And most universally loathed.

It's a common stance that invaders lose their right to equal treatment for playing the game their way. If more resources were devoted to preemptive action and less to playing around with international tools, we might see a lessening of community losses. I always found it sad that so many people complain and do nothing to actually help the fight to protect regions.

Refounding TBR accomplishes nothing but back-patting. I doubt many, if any, of you stand a chance at getting it back with or without a Liberation. Taking away native right to their region sets a new standard for the SC, one in which there is always an excuse to say that this group lost the right to their region because they did something people hate.

So yes, if it passes anyone can stand up and say "These natives did something I hate, so they don't deserve anything."

You sir deserve applause.

[Dragon rider 663]

I'm also fairly convinced they have/had an auto refound script anyway.

I'm going to call bullshit here as well. C'mon Stalker, I expected a bit more than this from you. The only incident I can't say I'm 100% sure on is that one sketchy night where Bob had some Superhuman ejection speeds (and given his later discovered offenses, I wouldn't be surprised if that was some sort of script). Even then though, the actual refound attempt was to be done by an assembled group of Raiders. I've participated in a number of refounds, from two on hogwarts, Tofuline, AoI, Den, and many others, and never once has there been any evidence or even hint of any sort of automation. We get as many people online as possible and manually spam-click the found region button until whoever is observing posts that someone got it. If you believe there's any illegal automation going on there, feel free to report it, just note that it's not going to go anywhere because it doesn't happen. Period.

You too

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

You sir deserve applause.

Ma'am* for Xor.

[Dragon rider 663]

You sir deserve applause.

Ma'am* for Xor.

Apologies

[Valrifell]

Let's use a completely offhand example of how this could be used for the power of ebil

Hell is a region that does something I don't agree with, it openly advocates Satanism, I don't agree with that religion and how they spread it. Therefore, according to the precedent this resolution sets up, since they do something I do not like, it is within my powers as a potential author to tear down that password and let it be raided. You know, for the 'benefit of the international community' as this resolution puts it.

[Dragon rider 663]

Let's use a completely offhand example of how this could be used for the power of ebil

Hell is a region that does something I don't agree with, it openly advocates Satanism, I don't agree with that religion and how they spread it. Therefore, according to the precedent this resolution sets up, since they do something I do not like, it is within my powers as a potential author to tear down that password and let it be raided. You know, for the 'benefit of the international community' as this resolution puts it.

You go do that I agree but I am not provoking. Also stalker has a name I am not comfortable with do that too

[Vexotopia]

The Black Riders invaded my region. I'm against.

[Dragon rider 663]

The Black Riders invaded my region. I'm against.

Thank you

[Treehall]

The Black Riders invaded my region. They are terrorists.
You've got to be a complete idiot to think they deserve any sort of support.

[Dragon rider 663]

The Black Riders invaded my region. They are terrorists.
You've got to be a complete idiot to think they deserve any sort of support.

You may think we are terrorist but according to the mods we do things our way and nothing is wrong with raiding

[Dragon rider 663]

also Treehall voted against the World Assembly Resolution "Liberate The Black Riders"

[New Grestin]

Based on what The Stalker has pointed out, I'm voting for this resolution.

Frankly, I'll take whatever option screws TBR the hardest.

That said, if this resolution wasn't submitted by an obvious puppet under shady circumstances, I'd be more confident in it's capacity to pass. Sadly, anything TBR related tends to be downvoted into oblivion, so I'm guessing we'll all be doing this same song and dance routine next week.

[Dragon rider 663]

Based on what The Stalker has pointed out, I'm voting for this resolution.

Frankly, I'll take whatever option screws TBR the hardest.

That said, if this resolution wasn't submitted by an obvious puppet under shady circumstances, I'd be more confident in it's capacity to pass. Sadly, anything TBR related tends to be downvoted into oblivion, so I'm guessing we'll all be doing this same song and dance routine next week.

Im againt your point of view but you are probably right

[The LBP Union]

Somebody had a good point earlier that raiding and occupying the Black Riders would be a waste because of the valuable troops needed to take it over and remain there that could be used to regain control over other raided regions. However where I disagree is that this belief assumes that it would require ALL the defender forces to take over TBR. There are many, many many defender troops out there and I'm sure that occupying the Black Riders wouldn't put a huge dent in the worldwide effort to defend regions and restore the damage done to them.

[Corporation of Aka]

The Black Riders were good. Why does everyone hate them.

[Dragon rider 663]

The Black Riders were good. Why does everyone hate them.

Because and I say this with quotes lots of sarcasm and sighing we are "terrorests" and we "destroy" regions. Their fault for not being bettr defenders

[Ambroscus Koth]

The Black Riders were good. Why does everyone hate them.

Because and I say this with quotes lots of sarcasm and sighing we are "terrorests" and we "destroy" regions. Their fault for not being bettr defenders

Please stop advocating for us.

I'm going to take great pleasure in watching this joke of a proposal fail.

[New Grestin]

The Black Riders were good. Why does everyone hate them.

Because and I say this with quotes lots of sarcasm and sighing we are "terrorests" and we "destroy" regions. Their fault for not being bettr defenders

Not to start a pissing match here, but the reason people hate TBR is because they targeted an RP region and created a logical conundrum for the mods and the admins simply because they couldn't exercise enough self control to not piss on regions that aren't gameplay related.

That's just one reason, of course, but the point is that many members of TBR are alright, but they have an unpleasant habit of acting like shitheads when they get together.

That said, this resolution is going to fail by a wide margin, so it really doesn't matter.

[We Are Not The ATF]

The Black Riders were good. Why does everyone hate them.

Because and I say this with quotes lots of sarcasm and sighing we are "terrorests" and we "destroy" regions. Their fault for not being bettr defenders

Yeah, you aren't a member of TBR...

[Naginii]

The mighty have fallen significantly if they're trying to help natives with identity issues take back a region that does not belong to them at all. Really, Chester? You're going to try and enable unjust invasion by interfering in what is raider territory? Those angry natives who raided The Black Riders the moment it was vulnerable became raiders on that very day. You are supporting a raid against raiders...out of spite? For the amusement? For the sake of getting another proposal passed?

Whatever your reason, you need to understand the simple fact: This is wrong.

This region belongs to the raiders. They are the real natives of this region. In essence you are "liberating" a region from its own natives. I may potentially even be alone on this issue in the defender sphere, but I do not support attempts to stop natives from refounding or protecting their present or former home. You are merely justifying a long-held belief that the SC is nothing but a manipulable defender tool.

More than that, you are obstructing something that you would not obstruct any other community from.

This is no better than any other SC attempt to use the power of the WA to stop anyone with a raider label from a basic right that you would grant any other community simply out of spite.

How much native support do you have for this, Chester? I mean the real natives of The Black Riders.

This shows how far this game has matured. Spite and agenda set aside to offer all players the same rights accorded to them by the rules of the game. Natives, be they raiders or defenders or just players, proven to have rights to their home region — no matter their gameplay or role-play type.

Proud moment.

[The Stalker]

So to start my replies, I guess i'm just gonna ignore Dragon rider 663 comments since they appear to be an imposer not really apart of TBR, and most of his posts are nonsense.

I will do my best to address the other comments, but not sure how much more energy or interest i'm going to have in debating since it's clear people have already made up there minds.

@EWS, It has been a long time rumor TBR had some refound script of sorts (automatic or not), i've seen posts and IRC conversations discussing it. I'm not going to be entirely convinced one way or the other. But when Bob and the lot got deleted for using illegal scripts, it certainly didn't help defuse that notion. Considering no one else in TBR had any idea about these illegal scripts, I don't think anyone can say for certain there wasn't one at one point. Either way, I would assume if they did, they don't anymore.

Why should the international community gang up on one founderless region because they raid? Most of the GCR militaries have at least dabbled in raiding. Some of them have refounded communities before. Look at TNP and Nazi Europe. Osiris has refounded before, I know TEP has a few on record. Not certain of the rest so I'll refrain on that count. TBR was just the most obnoxious and flashy about it. And most universally loathed.

In my first post, I stated;

There is a classy way of raiding, such as TBH's style, then their is The Black Riders who took raiding to it's worse possible extreme. (I'm reserving my judgement on DEN)

I don't consider myself anti-raider, in the last issue of Hell's Bells we did a featured interview with EWS and on RaiderCon. My point is that TBR brand of raiding is particularly foul. I can't even think of another region other than NE, that i'd actually support this kind of liberation for.

To me the WA at it's ideal should be standing up for victimized regions and standing against regions who greatly damage the international community as TBR have done.

The idea that the international community should support TBR getting their homeland back after all the homelands they've stolen and still have. That any region no matter how foul, or how much damage they've done to the international community should always be supported, it deems their behavior acceptable, and that is a very dangerous precedent to set.

I personally think the game would be far far more fun for everyone if we had more groups like TBH, and less groups like TBR.

[Onchi]

We need this for our Security Council. It would also, in some ways, liberate the oppressed peoples of their nations.