Condemnation of DEN (Draft)

[Herby]

And???? It's not illegal and stands a real good chance of actually passing. Who gives a shit how long it was up?

Alarmed by the rapid growth of DEN, and noting that this growth has attracted new players through it's destructive appeal.

• 9 hours ago: The proposal "Condemn DEN" was removed from the floor.

Oops. Guess three days wasn't enough then.

[Naginii]

Three days or no, everything should get a fair hearing in here — and a vote — before the victory laps are taken. Who gives a shit? Anyone who's on the other side of this process facing judgement.

[Sedgistan]

I might add that around the same time this proposal went live, a nation popped into DEN and resorted to rather colorful language in his "support" of a forthcoming condemnation...I believe the term "scumbags" was used: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/p ... 444/show=1

For the record, that has been addressed, and looks to be unrelated to the author of this profile.

[Naginii]

Thanks Sedge.

[The Bruce]

Mate, I'm a resident of the IDF and have been since 2004. I am a retired DEN/DEN Army trooper and general officer. I've never been a "resident" of this particular DEN. Along with several other ex-DEN officers, I'm merely one of several unofficial advisers.

DEN has been active in one form or another since 2004, under numerous leaders and using many, many different styles of raiding. This particular incarnation haven't been around long enough to do anything worthy of the WASC's time in a vote to brand them.

But like the others have said, raiders don't fear brands. They tend to add to the caché and street cred among the raider brotherhood, as well as on the gamemap just like the skull and bones flag warned pirate victims. It also gives their collective egos and attitudes a major boost — and when you're a reconstituted region, all that helps.

I might add that around the same time this proposal went live, a nation popped into DEN and resorted to rather colorful language in his "support" of a forthcoming condemnation...I believe the term "scumbags" was used: https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/p ... 444/show=1

The author of this proposal then appeared and took to the DEN RMB to do a bit of promotion, quoting the above nation's screed, and announcing their proposal rather loudly, "...May all who support DEN receive their justly deserved penance!"

All a bit theatrical. All that was missed was leaping from the balcony yelling, "Sic, Semper Tyrannis!"

I've been involved in the raider/defender game a decade now, and I don't recall a region being called evil before they've really been given a fair chance to do anything of the sort. Perhaps this has to do with the specter of DEN and Franks? Or maybe it really is just all about blind hatred of TBR.

From a branding and creative strategy point of view (my RW expertise), you're doing these guys a huge favor. You're about to make them into something they're not yet. Pass this bit of fear-based fiction, and you advance their cause in giving the new DEN a distinction and a story they haven't yet earned — but will appreciate.

I agree. Condemning the new DEN region is a bit premature. It's sort of like having the surviving Hydra janitor walk out of the broom closet, yell "Hail Hydra" and be confused with the original organization. DEN were the most vocal invaders, especially during a time when invaders had to contend with the old Griefer Rules that limited the amount of damage they could do to victim regions. For several years, TITO versus DEN was the standard in defender-invader conflicts.

DEN were also the first invaders to spend a huge proportion of their time making proclamations everywhere (like the NS Forum) about their invasions, to get more attention, something that became the norm after they did it for a while. Before DEN, most invaders tended to try to stay off the radar, in the hopes of not being noticed, to better surprise their victims. In that regard the TBR refugees, who went to DEN, are a bit closer to the original DEN; except that the original DEN didn't really make a big deal over training missions against tiny, inactive regions.

[Greenland-Myanmar]

I do think DEN should be condemned, so I support this.

[Unified Gibbons]

I approve, Den needs to be taken down before the descendants of TBR can grow strong again, and it starts with making it despised by the international community,

[Valrifell]

I approve, Den needs to be taken down before the descendants of TBR can grow strong again, and it starts with making it despised by the international community,

Technically, they're already despised by the international community, if they warrant a condemnation.
Isn't a condemnation like a formalization of an opinion (almost) everyone has?

[We Are Not the NSA]

I approve, Den needs to be taken down before the descendants of TBR can grow strong again, and it starts with making it despised by the international community,

Right, because it is a well known fact that condemnations *TOTALLY* cause regions to lose power.

[Evil Wolf]

Den needs to be taken down before the descendants of TBR can grow strong again

Too late.

[Unified Gibbons]

Den needs to be taken down before the descendants of TBR can grow strong again

Too late.

LOL. They are strong again, but will never be quite as large as they once were as TBR.

[We Are Not the NSA]

Too late.

LOL. They are strong again, but will never be quite as large as they once were as TBR.

What everyone fails to realize is that most of the nations in TBR were natives or inactive. The number of active raiders is actually higher now than it used to be.