[DEFEATED] Condemn Imperium of the Wolf

[Mousebumples]

As the proposal reached quorum without going through the forums, I'll make a discussion thread for it here. Mods, if this isn't allowed, just take it down.

Condemn Imperium of the Wolf
A resolution to express shock and dismay at a nation or region.
Category: Condemnation | Nominee: Imperium of the Wolf | Proposed by: Ju Ju

Description: Realizing that the Imperium of the Wolf is a corrupt region,

Noting that the regions delegate, The Wolf Chief of Themightymanuel, openly discusses the regions atrocities when recruiting young nations with telegrams saying "The Imperium of the Wolf is looking for strong nations to join us. We are a region of kings, queens, and dictators. We like war and oppressing our people through various and mostly violent ways,"

Appalled at the laws nations are encouraged to have, stating member states should require 12-year-old-boys to be removed from their families and begin military training,

Further noting the laws against women: stating all women are property of either their father or husband, are banned from most employment, and do not have the right to vote,

And Observing many World Assembly member states not abiding to World Assembly resolutions,

Hereby condemns the Imperium of the Wolf.

[Two Chaoses]

While the peaceful Duochaosean people find Imperium of the Wolf's behaviour repugnant, they have not acted in any manner worthy of condemnation by this august body. They have not committed the crimes for which The Black Riders and Nazi Europe became infamous. As a result, in a naked act of pacifism, we cast our vote in opposition to this resolution.

[Mirevia]

I vote Nay,for the reasons stated above.

While it is atrocious behavior,it its far undermining that of TBR

[Rogue Capitalism]

Our Rogue Capitalist nation views whatever form of government that works is fine. Democracies are not required and we, run by myself, are certainly in no position to point fingers at other dictators.

What makes this activity incriminating is the mention of war against the international community and a generally aggressive attitude that makes this region less trustworthy as a partner for sensitive international affairs.

We find it astonishing that only 25% are voting in the affirmative on this issue. This is grossly aggressive. Remember that a nation does not have to post the first aggressive action to warrant a condemnation. They merely have to demonstrate the willingness to do so. By attempting to form an alliance with like-minded aggressive nations, this region poses a threat to the world, and we MUST not answer such an attitude with complete silence when our positions on most all issues is on the side of human rights!

I vote strongly for this condemnation, and you should too.

[Asterland]

Asterland believes strongly that the ideals espoused by Imperium of the Wolf are so diametrically opposed to the progress of the world, a strong condemnation is the very least the World Assembly can and should levy. FOR.

[Jasey Ray]

We do believe that Imperium of the Wolf is out of line with their legislation and policies, but fail to see how simply condemning their actions would lead to any change.

[Druzhinin Imperium]

While their lack of civil rights is not something our glorious Emperor agrees with, we see no cause to condemn the Imperium of Wolf. Their military recruitment policies along with the rights of women is all within their rights as a sovereign nation.

Condemning a nation simply because of policies that you do not agree with due to cultural differences is not something the Druzhinin Imperium condones.

[Starstream Tribe]

But then what's the point of condemnation? I feel that if you condemn someone, it is because you do not approve of their ideologies or their actions.(probably their actions) And that condemnation icon is merely a symbol of the world's disapproval. As it stands, I say Nay, because the region is only following their own ideas and have done anything truly atrocious; as it says in the proposal.

[Runlyn]

I see nothing wrong with the Imperium's policies. This attempt to condemn them is laughable.

[Republic of Mittgard]

We do not see how cutting off a head of a hydra will stop a problem, for this will only cause 2 more to pop up. This is a weed style situation, sure, condemn one plant, but who knows how far it's seed/ influence has already spread. We must define what our terms are for these actions, while recognizing that this could stem into a massive problem if unchecked, too. This is a darned if you do darned if you don't decision, but no reason to oppress one and become a martyr for others to take up even more radical ideals. We vote against condemnation.

[Tecton]

Condemning them for breaking a few WA regulations, we think, is a tad overboard. Look at TBR, they are a much greater threat than a region that is has similar rules to those of a large majority of middle-eastern countries.

[Naginii]

The truest test of ideas and free speech, even that which you loathe, is to give each it's day in the court of public opinion and let that court decide value or worthlessness. Condemn them, and you're voting for squelching free speech and self determination. Yes, even this Spartan-like group has the right to pursue their idea of "NS Freedom" even if it conflicts violently, and rather contradictory, to yours.

Here's a thought: instead of handing these out to regions/nations you have grudges against, have personal "dislikes" of their gameplay, or their fictional NS worldviews and how they've decided to structure their nation/region, and treat their fictional populations, within the purview of the NS FAQ — why not make these things rare and hand them out to nations/regions that REALLY deserve it?

Instead of condemning a player or group of players for things said in-character on an RMB or factbook regarding things like military service age, how about using this tool only to punish nations that have actually engaged in harmful actions that caused harm to other players NS experience and gameplay — that aren't otherwise game moderator actionable?

Stop using the condemnation for personal squabbles, to slap-down gametypes, characters, legal speech (as per the FAQ), or attitudes you personally have issue with, dislike or is different from your own. This is supposed to be a broad and inclusive geopolitical game. Condemn every group or nation that does something you don't personally like, and you'll turn NS into the most boring game on the internet.

Freedom to be whoever you want to be without fear of condemnation, and so long as you don't impinge on the rights or gameplay of others, is at the heart of NS. The game, in the FAQ we all play by, gives us this right. Use this badge only against those who truly deserve it.

[Lesser Qing]

Have we not condemned the Black Riders yet?

[Tecton]

Have we not condemned the Black Riders yet?

We have, but they can still be active with invasions.

[Dooom35796821595]

Have we not condemned the Black Riders yet?

Yes. Multiple times. Are you suggesting that the line for condemnation should be drawn at wherever the worst historical region is?

As for everyone else, condemn us...or don't condemn us. But make no mistake, the true Evil of our diabolical plans of Doom have not even begun.....yet.

[Nation 11703-g]

I must have it on record, firstly, that I don't want to endorse this "free speech" fad. It just seems a poor way to maintain a loving stranglehold on one's nation.

Second, laws prohibiting women from valued functions in society are poorly thought out. I mean, in one stroke, you cut down your labour force and armed forces by half. With women on the workforce, you can earn twice as much revenue and therefore twice as many delicious tax dollars. With women on the battlefield, you can kill twice as many enemies.

That said, I'm sure that a condemnation will definitely have the desired results of effecting cultural change. I'm absolutely positive that, upon being rebuked by the World Assembly, the Imperium will take a sobering look at themselves and say "yes, I have done wrong and must turn over a new leaf". There's no way they would just laugh at the righteous indignation of meddling foreigners and keep on doing as they do.

[Asterland]

But what is the point of an international assembly? By taking part in such an organization, you have already conceded that we have the right to stand in judgement of other nations. And Asterland believes that the only truly sovereign entity is the individual, we see no reason for undue respect to a region when we perceive a misuse of power. And for those voting against the proposal, ask yourselves, "why not?". Why not vote to condemn such a region? Even if it did nothing, it would be just as effective as voting Against. It will do one thing at the least, however: make the Security Council's view of this region official, and set the civilized world in a position of opposition to the barbarians.

[Framptonia]

The Framptonia finds the attitudes of Imperium of the Wolf quite despicable, but does not consider that this is sufficient justification for the condemnation suggested by the Security Council.

The attitudes of a nation or region signify their values in the same way that the attitudes of an individual signify their values. Individuals have the right to hold whatever values and beliefs they wish. It does not matter how unpleasant and unpalatable their views, the state and organisations of the state cannot control the thoughts of an individual and so it cannot legislate against them either. What it can do though is to legislate against behaviour.

This should be the same with states and nations. It isn't the attitude of the state or region that matters, because we should not be condemning the state or nation, but the behaviour of that state or nation.

Produce evidence of a specific act that requires condemnation and Framptiona will consider voting in favour of any condemnation. But we will not condemn them simply for being unpleasant.

[CreepyCut]

They sound rather pleasant to me.

Anyway, I don't find the reasons justifiable for a condemnation. If there were any region invasion/raid-related actions, then it's another story.

[Vektra]

The Vektran Empire agrees to condemn them. While most of their politics are OK for us, we cannot tolerate the enslavement of women, at any cost.

[Teronia]

Considering that we train our children from birth to be combat capable, we are obviously against this resolution.

[New Old California]

As NOC does not take children away from their family at 12 years old, but does require mandatory self-defense and other military related lessons for anybody over the age of 13. However NOC does not tolerate the gender inequality in this region. Overall though we are aginst this condemnation.

[U n i t y]

As the Imperium is infamous for its strong military, it will use its military. Examples are North Korea, Russia, and the USA. All these countries built up militaries and "intervened in regional affairs for political freedom or civil rights." As Regional Delegate, i must protect my region from possible raiders. We must condemn the Imperium of the Wolf!

[Arcadia Scorpia]

Lady President Nina Marseille looks at the proposal, really looks at it, then sighs and puts it away in a neat pile.

"I understand that while the submitter of this proposal has every right to be appalled at the treatment of women by this region and the viciousness of it's populace, I certainly am, they have not invaded any foreign lands nor declared war on our allies. Thus, I see no reason to publicly condemn then, especially since these crimes are but a pittance compared to the likes of the nations whom we have in the past."

[Vexori]

Despite their repugnant laws against woman, the rulers of Vexori respect the strong, decisive leadership of the Imperium.
Our vote is cast in opposition.