[WITHDRAWN] Liberate NationStates

[The Global Democracy]

UPDATE: After a conversation with Mikeswill, I have decided to withdraw this proposal. I have requested for the moderators to remove it from the queue/list and it has been.



We have now identified the error and the liberation proposal will be re-submitted. I much prefer positive actions (liberations) to negative ones (condemnations). The "condemnation" however, is attached below too in a "spoiler".

The LIBERATION proposal

The Security Council,

Realising that the region in question has endured a decade-long rule of a dictatorial Delegate, Mikeswill, that never kept its promise to hold elections,

Shocked that nations in the region do not have the right to free speech,

Dismayed that nations are given no power to improve the region,

Disgusted that nations are ranked in importance in terms of how loyal they are to the Delegate,

Abhorred that the nations in the region live in fear of ejection, even when they have done nothing wrong

Wanting to put an end to the dictatorial regime and improve the lives of the nations,

hereby liberates NationStates.

The "alternative proposal" - a condemnation.

The Security Council,

Understanding that the nation in question has ruled the founderless region it belongs to, NationStates, for more than a decade, yet has never kept its promise to hold elections,

Shocked that the nation, while claiming the region to be a democracy, has not created clear and present system of a regional government, only permitting decisions to be made by itself

Disgusted that the nation selects a featured nation everyday, based on how loyal they are to him,

Concerned that the nation has completely suppressed freedom of speech in the region, causing nations to live in constant fear of ejection,

Disappointed at the blatant hypocrisy of the nation assuming power through this great Assembly, yet stands against the idea of this Council,

Seeking to expose its dictatorial regime and uphold justice for the regions of NationStates,

hereby condemns Mikeswill.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

The region is not pass worded, so no need for a liberation.

Still hurt about getting kicked from the region Charl?

[Goddess Relief Office]

Does the region not have elections? Let's assume you are right. Then the question is really whether long-term delegates should enjoy the same rights as Founders in the game in setting regional policy (which includes whether to allow elections, free speech, and so on).

It is more or less an accepted norm that Founders could be as dictatorial as they want since it is the region they founded. If you think Delegates shouldn't be like Founders, then your draft should explain why SC should judge them differently. Also, explain why should the SC should care about 'NationStates' the region when there are other regions with dictatorial delegates.

[Pauline Bonaparte]

The Right Honorable Gentleman from the Global Democracy continues to wage a pointless war against a regime with broad popular support - and intends to do it by liberating its region even though it doesn't have a password! This resolution is impotent and pointless in every meaning of the phrase.

If the Right Honorable Gentleman wishes to overthrow Mikeswill, I recommend he get the necessary endorsers and do it himself rather than continue to mislead this august body. Get the nations, take the delegacy - now that's democracy.

But good luck getting quorum.

[Blood Wine]

If you're going to make crappy proposals that reflect your non-existing knowledge of the GP world,at least link the region properly

[Nephmir]

I would support a Liberation of NationStates and fund a delegate campaign for it, though the draft itself could use more work. It needs more details and the 'atrocities' need to stand out more.

[Blood Wine]

Please for the love of god Nephmir,tell me you're being satirical

[Nephmir]

Please for the love of god Nephmir,tell me you're being satirical

Anything to promote those with imagination and a cause or ideology other than the boring Defender and Raider conflict.

So no, I'm not being satirical.

[The Forsworn Knights]

Lets look at this logically. the region is a GCR (game created region) meaning that it has no founder, the nation has had pretty much forever to build up influence and could probably ban everyone in the region and then password it, and he has 40 endorsements. he was elected 10 years 54 days ago so he has had plenty of times to build up alliances and loyalists, and then there is the matter of WHO would take charge afterwards. General Halcones? Nephmir? You? My dog? abstain? (yes those are all jokes) On one hand it is a dictatorship, on the other hand do we really have the right to forcefuly seperate the long-time-deligate from a GCR on the grounds that it does not comply with our beliefs? I supported the proposal but I doubt it will get any fire. (Goes off to suggest an invasion idea to his marshal and allies). PS lol

[The Global Democracy WA]

Exactly. Think of yourself 10 years ago - how old were you? What were you doing? Think about how much you've changed...THEN realise that THAT is the amount of time the dictator has been in power.

For 10 years, it has been kept a secret. For 10 years, the nations have suffered in silence. For 10 years, the lies overshadowed the truth.

It is time now to decide what side you are on --- the side of oppression, or the side of freedom, because if you are on the side of freedom, the only way to show it to approve the proposal, and bring it to quorum, to the international courts!

[The Real Fascist Austria]

The Security Council,

Realising that the region in question has endured a decade-long rule of a dictatorial Delegate that never kept his promise to hold elections,

Shocked that nations in the region do not have the right to free speech,

Dismayed that nations are given no power to improve the region,

Disgusted that nations are ranked in importance in terms of how loyal they are to the Delegate,

Abhorred that the nations in the region live in fear of ejection, even when they have done nothing wrong

Wanting to put an end to the dictatorial regime and improve the lives of the nations,

hereby liberates NationStates.

This is ridiculous. I will not vote in support of this proposal.

[The Global Democracy WA]

Then you are clearly on the side of oppression - most unfortunate.

[Blood Wine]

Then you are clearly on the side of oppression - most unfortunate.

You don't agree with me == you're an oppressor

Ah,logic at it's finest

[Nephmir]

Lets look at this logically. the region is a GCR (game created region) meaning that it has no founder, the nation has had pretty much forever to build up influence and could probably ban everyone in the region and then password it, and he has 40 endorsements. he was elected 10 years 54 days ago so he has had plenty of times to build up alliances and loyalists, and then there is the matter of WHO would take charge afterwards. General Halcones? Nephmir? You? My dog? abstain? (yes those are all jokes) On one hand it is a dictatorship, on the other hand do we really have the right to forcefuly seperate the long-time-deligate from a GCR on the grounds that it does not comply with our beliefs? I supported the proposal but I doubt it will get any fire. (Goes off to suggest an invasion idea to his marshal and allies). PS lol

NationStates is not a GCR. It was founded before an actual founder position was created.

[The Global Democracy WA]

Because what we disagree on is fundamental.

I feel that the region should be liberated, by not supporting this, you show you don't.

I feel that the nations should be given a chance at freedom, and for justice to be served, by not supporting this, you show you don't.

I feel that it is our duty, as the Security Council, to bring this opinion to the world to judge, by not supporting this, you show you don't.

I support the right to freedom, and by not supporting this, you show you don't.

I support the right to freedom, and if you disagree, you clearly support the opposite - oppression.

By not supporting this, you have denied the nations of this great region the one thing they could ever want - freedom.

[Blood Wine]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman


By not supporting this I show I actually know the game we're playing
Tell me,how was mikeswill not democratically chosen by the native residents? and how does your interference not count as oppression of the natives choice by disabling the option to put an password on the region?

[Pauline Bonaparte]

Exactly. Think of yourself 10 years ago - how old were you? What were you doing? Think about how much you've changed...THEN realise that THAT is the amount of time the dictator has been in power.

For 10 years, it has been kept a secret. For 10 years, the nations have suffered in silence. For 10 years, the lies overshadowed the truth.

It is time now to decide what side you are on --- the side of oppression, or the side of freedom, because if you are on the side of freedom, the only way to show it to approve the proposal, and bring it to quorum, to the international courts!

The Right Honorable Gentleman's logic is sloppy. The choices he presents are clearly "agree with my definition of 'freedom'" or "support oppression". The fact of the matter is, Mikeswill is not oppressing the nations in his region, by their own admission. The argument ends there. It is not the Right Honorable Gentleman's decision to make. The decision belongs to the residents of NationStates alone.

As I've mentioned before, the Right Honorable Gentleman's efforts to bring his ideals to a region emphatically rejecting them reminds me of the efforts of a colonialist forcing ideals on a subjugated populace.

The only difference is, the colonialist had overwhelming power. The Right Honorable Gentleman from the Global Democracy has nothing but his own hot air.

[Sichuan Pepper]

Do any natives of Nationstates support this?

[Faustin Land]

You'll never win.

Go oppression!

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Tell me,how was mikeswill not democratically chosen by the native residents?

In the end, every delegate is chosen democratically, by a majority vote. No one can truly force you to endorse anyone.

[New Brussels]

Exactly. Think of yourself 10 years ago - how old were you? What were you doing? Think about how much you've changed...THEN realise that THAT is the amount of time the dictator has been in power.

For 10 years, it has been kept a secret. For 10 years, the nations have suffered in silence. For 10 years, the lies overshadowed the truth.

It is time now to decide what side you are on --- the side of oppression, or the side of freedom, because if you are on the side of freedom, the only way to show it to approve the proposal, and bring it to quorum, to the international courts!

Exactly. Think of yourself 10 years ago - how old were you? What were you doing? Do you really think that Mikeswill could've stayed in power for so long without the natives' consent and support.
...and not to mention that a liberation does absolutely nothing to Nationstates even if it somehow passed...

From my stay in the region, I've found the delegate most welcoming and helpful, as well as capable of lending an ear to the opinions of the rest of the population; what makes you feel so different?

[Mikeswill]

We view the above attempts to "Liberate" the NationStates region as a guise from a small Nation intending to reach a level of infamy. There are nary a Nation in the Region that supports this proposal and, moreover, the "Liberation" usurps the game mechanics in favor of the envious lacking power over the hard working Nation who has sweated day in and day out to create a stable region.

To wit: I was invited into the NationStates Region on or about November 1, 2003 as the region's 16th Nation. Within two weeks I had recruited sufficient numbers into the region where I was elected via endorsements as the UN (WA) Delegate. My mentors at the time were the Raider Wink Woo and the Defender Mou Mou who wanted the region to be stable. It was not my fault that the region had no founder. Nevertheless, I worked hard and fought numerous raids and power grabs to expand the region to over 600 Nations on two occasions before the days of puppet storing inflation of regional population.

As a leader of a founderless region my last line of defense has been the password protection game mechanic reserved for the delegate. In time the Security Council arose and I staunchly objected to the concept of Liberation proposals for the very reason we are having this discussion today. Liberation proposals were supposed to free a raided region from invaders and give native nations an opportunity to secure support for their regional security. Over time these same proposals have been used to weaken the power base of native delegates. This is a travesty to the initial conception as it penalizes good leadership by removing the power of password protection.

I am the longest serving delegate in the game ~ by one day. Apparently the author of this resolution has no problem with Big Tex leading the Region of Texas for 10 years and 53 days. As such, his claims of freedom and democracy for native nations is merely a guise to deflect his personal agenda and jealousy. The reality is that the author is incapable of exerting the hard work necessary to lead a region for one year let alone 10 years. Rather, he would short circuit the process for his own personal gain. We thus live in a society where we attack and tear down the long and loyal hard work of one player for the whim of another who will disappear in oblivion far sooner than and with less effort than myself.

Mike

[The Global Democracy WA]

Well then, why not hold free and fair elections?

You claim to be democratic, yet you don't hold any elections at all! How long more do you wish to stay in power?

You claim to be democratic, yet you don't hold any elections AND you have an endorsement cap! All things being equal, this means you will ALWAYS stay in power.

You claim to be democratic, yet you don't even listen to nations with alternative views.

You claim to be democratic, yet you don't even allow other nations to join you in power-sharing.

You claim to be democratic, yet there is no recognisable form of government - only you are the sole person in charge.

I am also concerned about other regions, such as the one you mentioned, but do you expect to address them all at once? The question is - why did I start with yours? Because, Mikeswill, what's the name of the region you currently head - "NationStates", that's right. The name of this game itself! Without any official clarification, many will even think this is a "model" and representative of the game! Do we want an oppressive, dictatorial region to represent the game? Or do we want one that values freedom, liberty and democracy?

Mikeswill, if you hold free and fair elections - for the first time in 10 years - I promise you, I will abandon this immediately.

[Redsward]

You aren't listening to what they are saying. You don't know if Mike will lock the region. And you probably will keep trying to BRIBE ME AND RHODEVUS TO APPROVE YOUR PROPOSAL.

[Frisbeeteria]

*snip*

All I'm reading here (and elsewhere) is:

"I wanna be a Big Name in NationStates, but it sucks having to pay the dues or take the time.

I wanna be a Big Name in NationStates, but it sucks having to pay the dues or take the time.

I wanna be a Big Name in NationStates, but it sucks having to pay the dues or take the time.

etc ..."