NationStates

Unibot wrote:SC#1 condemned the entire Macedonian empire. Contrary to common beliefs, by leaving the region they have not 'uncondemned' themselves, that could not be done without a repeal (even a risky refounding cannot remove the legislative rhetoric that exists against them), in fact you could not be further from the truth -- by running from the WA they've empowered SC#1 even more.

I don't see it like that. Macedonia is free of judgement.

And while the text of SC1 does condemn something called 'the Macedonian Empire' it doesn't say what that means, plus, a condemnation of the region macedon shouldn't also condemn this other thing. Condemnations/Commendations have been deleted for doing something other than commending/condemning their nominee.

Topid wrote:

Unibot wrote:SC#1 condemned the entire Macedonian empire. Contrary to common beliefs, by leaving the region they have not 'uncondemned' themselves, that could not be done without a repeal (even a risky refounding cannot remove the legislative rhetoric that exists against them), in fact you could not be further from the truth -- by running from the WA they've empowered SC#1 even more.

I don't see it like that. Macedonia is free of judgement.

And while the text of SC1 does condemn something called 'the Macedonian Empire' it doesn't say what that means, plus, a condemnation of the region macedon shouldn't also condemn this other thing. Condemnations/Commendations have been deleted for doing something other than commending/condemning their nominee.

*cough* *cough*

Ardchoille wrote:As of this minute, you can't. Sorry, but that's just too open to abuse to leave unplugged. In the absence (then) of links, I read SC#1 as a condemnation of Macedon and (all its metaphorical belongings), the other side of the coin to the idea of "god bless the ship and all who sail in her". The Macedonian Empire I took to be "all who sail in her", not an individual region.

In the (obviously) continued absence of a link, SC#1 can still be read that way, and that's the way it is read. Mod fiat.

Topid wrote:

Unibot wrote:SC#1 condemned the entire Macedonian empire. Contrary to common beliefs, by leaving the region they have not 'uncondemned' themselves, that could not be done without a repeal (even a risky refounding cannot remove the legislative rhetoric that exists against them), in fact you could not be further from the truth -- by running from the WA they've empowered SC#1 even more.

I don't see it like that. Macedonia is free of judgement.

And while the text of SC1 does condemn something called 'the Macedonian Empire' it doesn't say what that means, plus, a condemnation of the region macedon shouldn't also condemn this other thing. Condemnations/Commendations have been deleted for doing something other than commending/condemning their nominee.

"The Macedonian Empire" owned Macedon, the region, and was the empire that was committing the crimes described in SC#1. I don't think it can get simpler than that, Topid.

In my book The Macedonian Empire wasn't defined, and so I think it is simply is another way to say Macedon. I'll support any condemnation of the new region Macedonia. Hopefully this author or someone else re-submits or submits something new.

Topid wrote:In my book The Macedonian Empire wasn't defined, and so I think it is simply is another way to say Macedon. I'll support any condemnation of the new region Macedonia. Hopefully this author or someone else re-submits or submits something new.

Well, in the SC's references, SC#1 condemns "Macedon and the Macedonian Empire". Now why would SC#1 condemn the same thing twice? Unless the "the Macedonian Empire" refers to a nebulous and larger entity than just the region, Macedon.

Unibot wrote:

Topid wrote:In my book The Macedonian Empire wasn't defined, and so I think it is simply is another way to say Macedon. I'll support any condemnation of the new region Macedonia. Hopefully this author or someone else re-submits or submits something new.

Well, in the SC's references, SC#1 condemns "Macedon and the Macedonian Empire". Now why would SC#1 condemn the same thing twice? Unless the "the Macedonian Empire" refers to a nebulous and larger entity than just the region, Macedon.

Allowing SC resolutions to condemn more than their nominee is a dangerous precedent. My plate if full at the moment drafting a GA proposal, and I do have other plans. But a repeal attempt is officially on my to do list.... Now I just gotta decide if I want it at the top or bottom.

Topid wrote:

Unibot wrote:

Topid wrote:In my book The Macedonian Empire wasn't defined, and so I think it is simply is another way to say Macedon. I'll support any condemnation of the new region Macedonia. Hopefully this author or someone else re-submits or submits something new.

Well, in the SC's references, SC#1 condemns "Macedon and the Macedonian Empire". Now why would SC#1 condemn the same thing twice? Unless the "the Macedonian Empire" refers to a nebulous and larger entity than just the region, Macedon.

Allowing SC resolutions to condemn more than their nominee is a dangerous precedent. My plate if full at the moment drafting a GA proposal, and I do have other plans. But a repeal attempt is officially on my to do list.... Now I just gotta decide if I want it at the top or bottom.

While your at it could you get "Condemn Nazi Europe" repealed too?

Because that would save me the trouble...

Unibot wrote:

Topid wrote:

Unibot wrote:

Topid wrote:In my book The Macedonian Empire wasn't defined, and so I think it is simply is another way to say Macedon. I'll support any condemnation of the new region Macedonia. Hopefully this author or someone else re-submits or submits something new.

Well, in the SC's references, SC#1 condemns "Macedon and the Macedonian Empire". Now why would SC#1 condemn the same thing twice? Unless the "the Macedonian Empire" refers to a nebulous and larger entity than just the region, Macedon.

Allowing SC resolutions to condemn more than their nominee is a dangerous precedent. My plate if full at the moment drafting a GA proposal, and I do have other plans. But a repeal attempt is officially on my to do list.... Now I just gotta decide if I want it at the top or bottom.

While your at it could you get "Condemn Nazi Europe" repealed too?

Because that would save me the trouble...

That was one of my new years resolutions.

1) Get at least 3 WA Resolutions passed
2) Get one GA resolution passed
3) Repeal Condemn Nazi Europe if no one else does.

I think Repeal Condemn Nazi Europe was going to be the ultimate project of The Security Council *runs off to forum to start discussion*

Apologies for the threadjack.

Topid wrote:

Unibot wrote:

Topid wrote:

Unibot wrote:

Topid wrote:In my book The Macedonian Empire wasn't defined, and so I think it is simply is another way to say Macedon. I'll support any condemnation of the new region Macedonia. Hopefully this author or someone else re-submits or submits something new.

Well, in the SC's references, SC#1 condemns "Macedon and the Macedonian Empire". Now why would SC#1 condemn the same thing twice? Unless the "the Macedonian Empire" refers to a nebulous and larger entity than just the region, Macedon.

Allowing SC resolutions to condemn more than their nominee is a dangerous precedent. My plate if full at the moment drafting a GA proposal, and I do have other plans. But a repeal attempt is officially on my to do list.... Now I just gotta decide if I want it at the top or bottom.

While your at it could you get "Condemn Nazi Europe" repealed too?

Because that would save me the trouble...

That was one of my new years resolutions.

1) Get at least 3 WA Resolutions passed
2) Get one GA resolution passed
3) Repeal Condemn Nazi Europe if no one else does.

My New Years Resolutions were Liberate Utopia and Condemn Jimmy Hart.

The proposal ninja vanished. I assume it simply dipped below the required approvals after the 4 day grace period?

New argument _

The World Assembly,

Noting that Macedonia was the birthplace of Alexander the Great,

Realising that the life of Alexander the Great was the inspiration for the film 'Alexander',

Believing that the film 'Alexander' was a load of rubbish;

Hereby condemns Macedonia.

Travancore-Cochin wrote:As it stands, it is illegal for violating No-HoC.

Even if Ardchoille hadn't countered this already, I disagree. This condemnation would be based on how they tried to underhandedly avoid the effects of a condemnation; whether the original condemnation is repealed or not, they still behaved in a manner that many would consider improper, and that is sufficient for a condemnation (at least, that's how I view it). If they dislike the condemnation, they should fight it by trying to get it repealed, not by moving en-masse to a new region, or refounding their region, or any other dirty tricks like that.

Personally, I think just stating how they moved to a new region in an attempt to escape a prior condemnation should be sufficient in-resolution justification.

Anyone can move to, and create regions, as they see fit.

One condemnation was enough. The SC can't go chasing Macedon around and condemning them every time they move off to a new region. As they're a group of raiders and are used to regional migration, I wouldn't expect just hopping off to somewhere new if Macedonia is condemned should be too difficult for them to pull off. In fact, condemning Macedonia would encourage them to move somewhere else, therefore allowing them to have the last laugh by letting them know their avoidance of their condemned regions is bothering the WASC - or, at least, is bothering the WASC members who actually care (pas moi).

Condemnations are to send a message, and this message needs only be sent once.

Mr Mean Old Man;

Macedon is run by Russians. Russians are the most dastardly people in online gaming who will lie, cheat, steal and wiggle their way out of everything. By NOT chasing them we are, in their mind, validating their idea that they can do whatever they want and nobody will ever really want to get in the way of their ambitions. Constant pursuit is a constant reminder.

Okay, the "Russian" thing is being overdone.

What if?

Condemn Macedonia

RECOGNIZES that the region is run by Russians

NOTING Russians are bastardly in this kind of game...

'

=racist/not gonna fly

Being somewhat Russian myself, I can say not chasing them would more or less validate their tactic, and, might encourage others, regardless of cultural (yes, it's a cultural thing, not so much a racial one; anyone in contact with those types of values may choose to act that way regardless of race) style to emulate them.

That said, it's rather melodramatic to paint them like evil Commies, plotting to take over the world. They're just a bunch of bored people who want to be 'Numbar wan' in raiding things, and they have some dishonorable tactics. So be it--nothing a few more condemnations won't be able to throw a wet towel on.

...more like a wet tissue. What makes you think they won't just move again? And again, and again, Et cetera?

Commies aint the issue, or I'd be looking for the chinese players. Russians are the issue No I don't like them

Unending persistence in condemning them would make their moving futile.

Of course, I am just the type to suggest that, but I know the SC would tire of such. So maybe just one or two more to drive home the point, then shrug at any further movement.

Maybe when they're forced to make names like 00Macedonia.

Metania wrote:Unending persistence in condemning them would make their moving futile.

Of course, I am just the type to suggest that, but I know the SC would tire of such. So maybe just one or two more to drive home the point, then shrug at any further movement.

Maybe when they're forced to make names like 00Macedonia.

But Macedon supported this resolution.

The people I telegrammed to get it out of the queue were mostly raiders who had been coaxed by their cronies into approving it. Macedon loves the idea of making a fool out of the SC.

Is it not them who are the fools for inviting repeated condemnation on themselves? They may benefit from the attention, but does not any place that is condemned get such attention?

To them it may be making 'fools' out of the SC, but to what end? An ugly button marring the top of their layout isn't particularly much of a victory, and whether or not this goes anywhere, they've already garnered plenty of attention with all the discussion here.

At this point we should stop caring what they think and simply do what makes sense; if the condemn has any chance of actually stopping anything, then condemn; if it's just a useless button which some very bored people want to collect on multiple regions, then do not condemn.

A condemnation in this instance would be...condemnable.