[PASSED] Condemn North Korea

[Republic of Minerva]

Updated.

Need one last critique before I submit it.

You've been told by a several SC regulars that this isn't enough to condemn a region. Get more meat on it, and I'm not talking about the purple prose padding you've got on it right now. They just haven't done enough to warrant a condemn.

Let's see if I can fix that, then. There. Ready for submission.

[Chester Pearson]

You've been told by a several SC regulars that this isn't enough to condemn a region. Get more meat on it, and I'm not talking about the purple prose padding you've got on it right now. They just haven't done enough to warrant a condemn.

Let's see if I can fix that, then. There. Ready for submission.

Uhhhhh...... No, no it is not ready. You forgot to burn it and forget the whole pointless effort. Once you do that, then it will be ready for submission.

[Republic of Minerva]

Let's see if I can fix that, then. There. Ready for submission.

Uhhhhh...... No, no it is not ready. You forgot to burn it and forget the whole pointless effort. Once you do that, then it will be ready for submission.

We'll see about that.

[Chester Pearson]

Uhhhhh...... No, no it is not ready. You forgot to burn it and forget the whole pointless effort. Once you do that, then it will be ready for submission.

We'll see about that.

I'll keep that in mind, when I stack against it....

[DWAsnia]

You done submitted it. Let's see it fail to reach quorum.

[District XIV]

Was reading it over in the queue and accidentally hit the 'approve' button >_>

Subsequently unapproved it; the author submitted this way too early, not even counting the numerous concerns raised in this thread.

[United States Kingdom]

I support this and will use my other Greater Prussia nation to vote for it in the World Assembly since only one nation can be in the world assembly.

[Kranstentistan]

Minerva, I'm not going to lie, you kind of screwed the pooch with this one.

[Republic of Minerva]

You had any better ideas?

I guess I can admit struggling to garnish enough with this one, but I feel like the core of the message is still intact. If you know any...ahem...knowledge that can make it stronger, please tell(egram) me. I recall another incident that may have added weight, but it slips my mind and my ability to find it.

[Republic of Minerva]

Edit: Anyway I declare early defeat. I admit that much of this was due to three reasons:

A.) Wanting to attempt my hand at a SC resolution

B.) Feeling sympathy for the former natives of Slavya, and everyone else who has been hounded by North Korea's actions.

C.) Obviously if this was not apparently, my anti-communism. Alone I think that's enough to condemn somebody, but I won't let my bias blind me.

Down the road if I ever come back I might try an attempt at condemning Antifa or another resolution, something with a bit more chance to succeed. Unfortunately I am woefully even more ignorant in that department, and a terrible "investigator." Alas I leave it up to you folks, if anyone wants to take over the North Korea draft, I will allow it if legal or allowed (probably not), or if anyone has any ideas for another resolution to share, I am all open for it, as I am much interested in calling out tyrants as they exist.

[Kranstentistan]

Edit: Anyway I declare early defeat. I admit that much of this was due to three reasons:

A.) Wanting to attempt my hand at a SC resolution

B.) Feeling sympathy for the former natives of Slavya, and everyone else who has been hounded by North Korea's actions.

C.) Obviously if this was not apparently, my anti-communism. Alone I think that's enough to condemn somebody, but I won't let my bias blind me.

Down the road if I ever come back I might try an attempt at condemning Antifa or another resolution, something with a bit more chance to succeed. Unfortunately I am woefully even more ignorant in that department, and a terrible "investigator." Alas I leave it up to you folks, if anyone wants to take over the North Korea draft, I will allow it if legal or allowed (probably not), or if anyone has any ideas for another resolution to share, I am all open for it, as I am much interested in calling out tyrants as they exist.

I am considering doing that. Anyone wanna team up?

[District XIV]

Has the author submitted a GHR requesting that this be pulled?

[Toronina]

Edit: Anyway I declare early defeat. I admit that much of this was due to three reasons:

A.) Wanting to attempt my hand at a SC resolution

B.) Feeling sympathy for the former natives of Slavya, and everyone else who has been hounded by North Korea's actions.

C.) Obviously if this was not apparently, my anti-communism. Alone I think that's enough to condemn somebody, but I won't let my bias blind me.

Down the road if I ever come back I might try an attempt at condemning Antifa or another resolution, something with a bit more chance to succeed. Unfortunately I am woefully even more ignorant in that department, and a terrible "investigator." Alas I leave it up to you folks, if anyone wants to take over the North Korea draft, I will allow it if legal or allowed (probably not), or if anyone has any ideas for another resolution to share, I am all open for it, as I am much interested in calling out tyrants as they exist.

Don't think that word means what you think it does.

[Republic of Minerva]

Okay.... I think I am well aware what the definition is.

[Sklavinia]

Drako does not represent our region.

It's true that he uses words and phrases some might fine offensive, and normally they wouldn't be wrong, but that's just Drako being Drako. He's not a racist or a homophobe, he just likes saying whatever he wants and using however he wants. I've never seen him use any sort of offensive language in an intentionally offensive way, other than that "slant-eyed" comment, which was most likely written out of anger. Or he may have been drunk. Or maybe he was angry and drunk, fuck if I know.

The point is, while Drako is certainly not the kind of guy you want Little Jimmy hanging out with, he's by no means a racist or a homophobe. He just uses a lot of vulgar language. Like, a lot. But he's a pretty funny guy, so we won't banject him or anything. Everyone seems to also be forgetting that, as I have said 4 times now, we have a openly homosexual member in our region. And we have had her since before we moved back to Slavija. She has served as our delegate. I've said this 4 times now, yet everyone seems to ignore me.

[Great Kleomentia]

Drako does not represent our region.

It's true that he uses words and phrases some might fine offensive, and normally they wouldn't be wrong, but that's just Drako being Drako. He's not a racist or a homophobe, he just likes saying whatever he wants and using however he wants. I've never seen him use any sort of offensive language in an intentionally offensive way, other than that "slant-eyed" comment, which was most likely written out of anger. Or he may have been drunk. Or maybe he was angry and drunk, fuck if I know.

The point is, while Drako is certainly not the kind of guy you want Little Jimmy hanging out with, he's by no means a racist or a homophobe. He just uses a lot of vulgar language. Like, a lot. But he's a pretty funny guy, so we won't banject him or anything. Everyone seems to also be forgetting that, as I have said 4 times now, we have a openly homosexual member in our region. And we have had her since before we moved back to Slavija. She has served as our delegate. I've said this 4 times now, yet everyone seems to ignore me.

There is no use defending Drako. He and I share a kind of humor most people here would find disgusting and vulgar. Which is ironic, considering most people here classify as Libertarians.

[Socialist Assembly Marxists]

Don't let your own opinions on the writer of this condemnation, his actions, his region, or his allegiances get in the way of what is important. The North Koreans have blatantly stolen our region, a region we had plans to refound. Their attempt to justify it was under the pretense of "preventing it from falling into fascist and capitalist hands", a flimsy excuse at best. Attempts to negotiate for it's return peacefully ended abruptly when they became aware of our "anybody but Nazis is welcome" policy, which allows people THEY dislike, such as capitalists and fascist and other non-Lefitsts, to reside within our region so long as they do not cause trouble.

Learning this, they ultimately decided that our own region should not belong to us simply because we believe in freedom of speech and thought. They then proceeded to use every insult they could think of as an excuse to prevent our region from returning to us, lying to their own members about our alignment, hypocritically citing we're a "liberal" and a "homophobic fascist" region. None of which has any real basis. Before they decided to suspend negotiations, I had made it clear to them prior that we have capitalists (such as myself) and fascists in our region. Such information was apparently ignored until they needed a new excuse to prevent Slavya's return to it's rightful owners.

Actually, youll find quite a few good faith efforts to return your region to you, that is until you blatantly had fascists in your region and supported their thought. I think the best part of this is how easily its disproved simply by looking at your racist, homophobic and fascist supporting RMB. You then came to our region to complain, and were given a succinct explanation of our position on bourgeois concepts of "freedom of speech". It is hilarious to hear someone whose position is ending the rights of every oppressed minority talk about having their freedom of speech curtailed. Oh but somehow, just because of the word "freedom" we are supposed to bootlick your love of oppressive language. Not in this life. If oppression is to be ended then oppression through speech can not continue, something that your regional members wholeheartedly support and perpetuate.

To be clear, we are not some liberal washingboard where all are welcome. We have never claimed to be. We are not interested in your RMB politics, we are interested in not supporting fascism or fascist thought. Its called the "no platform policy". We dont care about you, your entire region faded from memory as soon as you stopped coming to our RMB to complain, we only care about following our policies for the development of leftism.

As for this condemnation proposal. I suppose if we get condemned by the head of the exploitative parasitic class on NS I can call it a win. NK will never bow before the capitalists insistence that it is their RIGHT to oppress people (which their entire way of life is built on, all "freedoms" they may enjoy aside). We will always be at the forefront of the revolutionary struggle on NS against the forces of the reaction and the right.

Ok, but free speech can also expose fascists too!
Abstaining.

[Socialist Assembly Marxists]

Edit: Anyway I declare early defeat. I admit that much of this was due to three reasons:

A.) Wanting to attempt my hand at a SC resolution

B.) Feeling sympathy for the former natives of Slavya, and everyone else who has been hounded by North Korea's actions.

C.) Obviously if this was not apparently, my anti-communism. Alone I think that's enough to condemn somebody, but I won't let my bias blind me.

Down the road if I ever come back I might try an attempt at condemning Antifa or another resolution, something with a bit more chance to succeed. Unfortunately I am woefully even more ignorant in that department, and a terrible "investigator." Alas I leave it up to you folks, if anyone wants to take over the North Korea draft, I will allow it if legal or allowed (probably not), or if anyone has any ideas for another resolution to share, I am all open for it, as I am much interested in calling out tyrants as they exist.

You're a fine one to talk about free speech, ect.

'Section I
Subsection I
The factbook of Libertatem founder The Liberosolini of Liberosia shall be used as a precedent in accordance with the manner in which the region’s politics shall be carried out.
Subsection II
This speech, although not directed at the nations of Libertatem, rather the people of Liberosia, retains full legal capabilities.
Subsection III
Citizens of Liberosia,
All forms of totalitarianism in our country have been abolished. The private sector makes a massive majority of our economy and we are thriving as a nation. However, there still exists nations dedicated to government power, and although the game of NationStates does not allow them to progress to their natural state of totalitarianism, we know from history that this ideology is the cause of much suffering and death. In this light, The Confederacy of Liberosia hereby declares war on communism. We will help any nation/region who wishes to pursue this war on communism by means of puppets, traditional warfare, and deception. This all in the name of a free people[Orwellian] trying to pursue a free market.[abstraction] In case of invasion of our region, all radically leftist nations who are WA delegates will be ejected and banned to insure the security and stability of the region. Nations only moderately leftist will be permitted to enter the region without fear of banishment. Because we wish to further this cause effectively, the capitalist nations will be forced to ally with the fascist nations [those wonderful allies of freedom] In this light, fascist nations will not be ejected from the region, but we maintain this region is inherently capitalist, not fascist. If a fascist nation comes to power, spams, or otherwise disrupts the stability of our region, he or she will be ejected and banned.[since fascists are more likely to do this to left-wing regions, you should understand our discomfort with fascists residing in our regions] The Confederacy of Liberosia notes that it will be shunned by even capitalist regions/nations. It could encounter hostility from a variety of different regions. It is doubtful that our region will grow at the same rate as other more neutral regions. We will most probably remain stagnate. We will encounter ridicule, and mockery. However, we will shoulder all of these. To any nation reading this, if you are anti-communist, if you believe in free people and free markets, if you don't want to see the communists take power now or ever, you have a home in Libertatem.
Thank you'
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=the_ ... k/id=75156
Article VIII, Anti-communism
In the name of free speech and association.

You conflate 'official communism' with the communism of stateless/classless society. How convenient.

[Coraxion]

Whole draft proposal is bad and mis-directed. There are organisations around which conduct raiding activities all the time with hundreds of puppets placed all around The Multiverse, NK makes few attempts here and there and reason for outrage is here, right?

Then, North Korea and satellites forms only one supra-wing within Marxist leftist segment of a interregional unbrella organisation Antifa. All what can happen in the fields under name of Antifa cannot be considered as a deeds of North Korea.

Furthermore, noting that Founder of North Korea, The Defender Alliance a.k.a. V.Ming (Original Founder of The CPNS) should be merely commended due her extreme activity and enthusianism within Far-Left wing of the NationStates and totally regardless what World Assembly members would think about her political agendas, platforms and RL-politically oriented activities represented via her activity and regions founded by her.

Few raids are not condemnworthy in any scenarios regardless whom are conducted them and what for.

Thus, being Against this proposal wholeheartedly.

- Cora -
(a.k.a. Proletaurus (KIA), Retired Squadron Admiral of The Red Fleet, Original founder of Antifa)

[Ainin]

RECALLING a North Korean backed raid of the region Benevolent Capitalism, a small region whose only guilt was being associated to other regions indirectly, and was unfairly raided a second time after it was noted that the Black Riders had done one before them, despite said region not being fascist in the least,

This clause's wording seems wrong to me, but I can't put my finger on what the exact problem is.

Also, fully against. Reasons are laughable, target is not notable, infamous or deplorable enough to deserve condemnation.

[Betoveria]

To put it plainly, I feel like this is one of those proposals that uses a highly recognizable title and the real life connotations attached to the subject(s) of said title in order to garner immediate support from the nations around the site who, because of these connotations, will just vote "For" because they recognize the subject(s) in question. This kind of thing in the WA has grown rather tiresome.

That said, I have to vote AGAINST. This proposal would need more substance in order to garner a supporting vote from my nation.

[Central Asian Republics]

Sure, but that's not what is being discussed. I left my bias at the door and used objectivity to make this condemnation with another region in mind. You however, do not seem capable of that.

Sure I'm a hypocritical raider making a pitiful jab at a more successful region because I'm opposed to their ideology. But that's not whats being discussed, we're trying to discuss the semantics of this pitiful jab.

lol, your funny. I should leave my bias at the door? This entire proposal is biased. Your wrote it completely based on your bias. But please. by all means, prove your objectivity and write up a condemnation for your own region, since your region is guilty of the same "crimes" that your accuse NK of.

He's right you know.

[New Grestin]

I fail to see how this proposal has anything to do with anything.

Seems as though this only exists because the region is called North Korea. I mean, yeah, RL North Korea is a backwards authoritarian nightmare, but under this logic, we should condemn every communist or Fascist region too.

"APPALLED that North Korea’s sole motivation in keeping Slavya is due to their belief that freedom of speech and association shouldn’t apply to Slavyans, and that their ideas of what freedom is must be imposed on other regions under the guise of anti-fascism,"

And? Once again, with this logic, we should have hundreds of condemnations blocking up the system for all the raids that suppressed people's free speech.

"ACKNOWLEDGING North Korea’s position of anti-fascism, and it’s attempt to combat fascism has turned it into a large empire spanning almost a thousand regions indirectly connected to it, blocking others from using those region’s name merely in the name of “anti-fascism,”

Obnoxious, yes, but not exactly condemnation worthy.

"AWARE of North Korea’s recent refounding of Slavya, a long time regional community that once had up to 150 nations, had denied that region’s previous founder a chance to refound the region, securing it under their control,"

So does every. single. other. raider. group.

"BELIEVING that by occupying Slavya, and by invading other regions in the name of "Anti-Imperialism, Anti-Colonialism, [and] Self-Determination," North Korea violates the principles that they claim they are dedicated to, and poses a threat to the international community,"

Somehow I doubt violation of region principles is condemnation worthy.

"RECALLING a North Korean backed raid of the region Benevolent Capitalism, a small region whose only guilt was being associated to other regions indirectly, and was unfairly raided a second time after it was noted that the Black Riders had done one before them, despite said region not being fascist in the least,"

While this does have a nugget of a point buried in there somewhere, unprovoked raids do happen, and North Korea is not the biggest offender.

"NOTING that North Korea denies the freedom of speech of their members, as shown by Article 8d of their constitution, as well as banning any nation they deem to be "reactionary" from their region,"

I'm not really seeing how this is that big of a problem, nor do I understand how this is condemnation worthy. Not to sound like a broken record, but if this were really that awful, we'd be completely overwhelmed with condemnations for regions that ban free speech.

I didn't have time for a full blown break-down of the proposal, so you'll forgive me if this is a bit less polished than I'd like it to be.

tl;dr This condemnation either needs to be seriously reworked or completely scrapped, because I'm not seeing anything here that indicates NK is as terrible as the proposal indicates. Also, reading through the thread again, it would seem this proposal is literally dripping with bias and hypocrisy.

Against.

[Wrapper]

Edit: Anyway I declare early defeat.

Well then, no reason to vote for, if the author's already given up on this.

[New Grestin]

Edit: Anyway I declare early defeat.

Well then, no reason to vote for, if the author's already given up on this.

Oh, well then. Problem solved.