[DEFEATED] Liberate Capitalist Paradise

[Upper America]

Just about everything you said in that proposal.

Let's examine that claim.

Noting this Council's mission statement to spread interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

This isn't a lie.

Declaring that peace is more important to the international community than goodwill

This, whilst being a subjective statementt, isn't a lie.

Acknowledging therefore, that sometimes goodwill must be sacrificed for peace, the World Assembly Security Council;

Also isn't a lie.

Recognises that the residents of Capitalist Paradise are not fulfilling the region's potential

Again, subjective, but again still not a lie.

Deciding that others could put Capitalist Paradise to better use

Subjective, not a lie.

Observes the presence of one or more nations who are engaged in dubious practices in Capitalist Paradise

Ok, should read were. At the time of writing it was accurate.

Hoping that one day this resolution will be able to contribute to the goal of fulfilling Capitalist Paradise's potential to the fullest

How can a hope be a lie?

Accepting that this might take some time

Realism: not a lie.

Hereby Liberates Capitalist Paradise

Also not a lie.

Correction: everything you said about Capitalist Paradise is wrong

[Glen-Rhodes]

He posted it to keep people angry, because you guys were letting the mods shut down everything keeping the fire lit under them.

Yeah that particular theory isn't one anybody familiar with Afforess's character accepts.

You don't have to "accept" the "theory", because it's not a theory. I said before that Afforess told me exactly what his intentions were, after I had already guessed it correctly in the first place.

And no, we were not letting the mods shut down anything. You know as much about our movement as you do anything claim to have knowledge of.

"Our movement." Because apparently I haven't been advocating for an R/D opt-out. You are the only true savior of NS roleplays.

And speaking of actually knowing things, I do know how NS++ works. I can read the code. Unlike you. You display your ignorance every time you make false accusations that NS++ "could" do this or that. First of all, "IP farming" isn't even a real thing. Nobody "farms" for IPs, because every interaction you make with another computer on the internet involves sharing your IP addresses with each other. That's how the internet works. Second, tossing out accusation of password farming, when you have zero knowledge of how NS++ works in the first place, is dumb, malicious, and libelous. There is nothing in NS++ that records password fields or keystrokes. Absolutely nothing that intercepts any passwords whatsoever.

Whether or not a browser extension can steal a password is irrelevant to your disgusting accusations. Everything you download onto your computer can steal your passwords. Every browser extension you install can steal your passwords. So, if you don't know what to look for to see if an extension is doing that, then shut up and stop making those accusations.

[Abacathea]

Yeah that particular theory isn't one anybody familiar with Afforess's character accepts.

You don't have to "accept" the "theory", because it's not a theory. I said before that Afforess told me exactly what his intentions were, after I had already guessed it correctly in the first place.

And no, we were not letting the mods shut down anything. You know as much about our movement as you do anything claim to have knowledge of.

"Our movement." Because apparently I haven't been advocating for an R/D opt-out. You are the only true savior of NS roleplays.

And speaking of actually knowing things, I do know how NS++ works. I can read the code. Unlike you. You display your ignorance every time you make false accusations that NS++ "could" do this or that. First of all, "IP farming" isn't even a real thing. Nobody "farms" for IPs, because every interaction you make with another computer on the internet involves sharing your IP addresses with each other. That's how the internet works. Second, tossing out accusation of password farming, when you have zero knowledge of how NS++ works in the first place, is dumb, malicious, and libelous. There is nothing in NS++ that records password fields or keystrokes. Absolutely nothing that intercepts any passwords whatsoever.

Whether or not a browser extension can steal a password is irrelevant to your disgusting accusations. Everything you download onto your computer can steal your passwords. Every browser extension you install can steal your passwords. So, if you don't know what to look for to see if an extension is doing that, then shut up and stop making those accusations.

While I agree with about 90% of what you said glen I will clarify this much. Afforess has previously discussed how his extension processes logins in terms of the switcher feature it has and it is more than probable that Afforess on a whim could have accessed any and all accounts he desired. This was always my primary reason for not using ++.

[Glen-Rhodes]

While I agree with about 90% of what you said glen I will clarify this much. Afforess has previously discussed how his extension processes logins in terms of the switcher feature it has and it is more than probable that Afforess on a whim could have accessed any and all accounts he desired. This was always my primary reason for not using ++.

Again, you're talking about what an extension "could" do, not what it actually does. Literally all Google Chrome extensions, for example, could steal every password to every website you've ever logged in to. That's because Google Chrome's permissions system is basically all or nothing. NS++ wouldn't be able to operate if it's didn't have the permissions that make it possible to steal your passwords on NS.

What Nierr is doing is making a statement that everybody takes to mean NS++ is actually stealing passwords. Then he's walking it back with his cute little "but I only said it could" B.S. That's because all Nierr is interested in is making Afforess out to be the big evil bad guy of NS. But in the process, he's hurting all third-party NS-related development, by spreading technophobic ignorant lies about one of the most popular NS third-party extensions.

[Trevation]

Just what evidence of wrong doings by nations of or the entire region of Capitalist Paradice do you have? Just because you claim it is true, it doesn't mean that it is

[Sseroffa]

While I agree with about 90% of what you said glen I will clarify this much. Afforess has previously discussed how his extension processes logins in terms of the switcher feature it has and it is more than probable that Afforess on a whim could have accessed any and all accounts he desired. This was always my primary reason for not using ++.

Food for thought: Am I a monster for having that power, or a saint for having that power and never exercising it?

[Nierr]

But in the process, he's hurting all third-party NS-related development, by spreading technophobic ignorant lies about one of the most popular NS third-party extensions.

Actually no I'm not. As seen by the two NS++ forks, one run by a nation I trust implicitly, in devolepment, third party NS-related development is never better.

If I wanted to stir up 'technophobic ignorant lies' - and I will just point out that at no point have I lied about what NS++ does, has done or could do, thank you very much - I'd be targeting all users who develop third party tools, and that would include targeting those behind stats giving tools such as NSDossier, the Sunset Simulator and other such tools.

But I'm not. So rail against the Luddite conspiracy or whatever all you want, but leave me out of your fantasies. I don't appreciate it and I've had just enough interaction with you over the years that I'm good for the foreseeable future.

[Sseroffa]

But in the process, he's hurting all third-party NS-related development, by spreading technophobic ignorant lies about one of the most popular NS third-party extensions.

Actually no I'm not. As seen by the two NS++ forks, one run by a nation I trust implicitly, in devolepment, third party NS-related development is never better.

Thoughts on the fact that your NS++ fear-mongering is obsolete now that [violet] is acquiring and leading the project now?

[Nierr]

Actually no I'm not. As seen by the two NS++ forks, one run by a nation I trust implicitly, in devolepment, third party NS-related development is never better.

Thoughts on the fact that your NS++ fear-mongering is obsolete now that [violet] is acquiring and leading the project now?

It's not fear-mongering to publicise something that has already happened. NS++ did take control of nations to upvote dispatches. This is not something that is contention.

I have no problems with [violet] taking over NS++ because unlike Afforess, [violet] is someone trustworthy enough to run such a tool without using it for dubious means.

[Sseroffa]

Thoughts on the fact that your NS++ fear-mongering is obsolete now that [violet] is acquiring and leading the project now?

It's not fear-mongering to publicise something that has already happened. NS++ did take control of nations to upvote dispatches.

NS++ takes "control" of nations all the time. It can be set up to dismiss issues, block telegrams, hide or show alerts, etc. Those are all "controls". The issue you are complaining about was a single event lasting no more than 60 seconds.

[Nierr]

It's not fear-mongering to publicise something that has already happened. NS++ did take control of nations to upvote dispatches.

NS++ takes "control" of nations all the time. It can be set up to dismiss issues, block telegrams, hide or show alerts, etc. Those are all "controls". The issue you are complaining about was a single event lasting no more than 60 seconds.

The difference between what you listed and what happened is that all those things are voluntary.

Afforess snuck code in that secretly upvoted his dispatches. That is taking control of someone's nation without their knowledge, without their permission.

[Nephmir]

NS++ takes "control" of nations all the time. It can be set up to dismiss issues, block telegrams, hide or show alerts, etc. Those are all "controls". The issue you are complaining about was a single event lasting no more than 60 seconds.

The difference between what you listed and what happened is that all those things are voluntary.

Afforess snuck code in that secretly upvoted his dispatches. That is taking control of someone's nation without their knowledge, without their permission.

Tip: you're speaking to Afforess. Look a little closer at the nation name.

[Upper America]

NS++ takes "control" of nations all the time. It can be set up to dismiss issues, block telegrams, hide or show alerts, etc. Those are all "controls". The issue you are complaining about was a single event lasting no more than 60 seconds.

The difference between what you listed and what happened is that all those things are voluntary.

Afforess snuck code in that secretly upvoted his dispatches. That is taking control of someone's nation without their knowledge, without their permission.

Doesn't mean his whole region was in on it. Don't go after everyone if only one guy did it.

[Dubnia]

If this is truly a joke proposal, why would you even submit it? This created a huge debate that amounts to nothing, and has given a whole bunch of new nations who don't know better the wrong idea about WA resolutions and their purposes, and has done much more harm than the passage of this resolution ever could.

Thank you for acknowledging my success.

This is quite possibly the most unintelligent and elaborate hoax I may ever have the chance to be part of.

[Glen-Rhodes]

If I wanted to stir up 'technophobic ignorant lies' - and I will just point out that at no point have I lied about what NS++ does, has done or could do, thank you very much...

You don't actually know whether you have lied, because you know literally nothing about browser extension development, now do you?

[Dubnia]

or you want to drag everyone into the raiding game like Mall tried.

Yep. You caught me. I want to drag every region into the raiding game.

Yours is next.

Geez, you're not just misguided, you're flamboyant, arrogant, and militant about it. Some regions stay out of the raiding game for legitimate regions. Nationstates was not only meant for the raiding game, but for robust political discussion free from the downfalls of the already established world. In any case, I highly condemn the use of the WA for the advancement of Raiders or Defenders, unless raided regions didn't want to be raided.

[Dubnia]

You don't have to "accept" the "theory", because it's not a theory. I said before that Afforess told me exactly what his intentions were, after I had already guessed it correctly in the first place.


"Our movement." Because apparently I haven't been advocating for an R/D opt-out. You are the only true savior of NS roleplays.

And speaking of actually knowing things, I do know how NS++ works. I can read the code. Unlike you. You display your ignorance every time you make false accusations that NS++ "could" do this or that. First of all, "IP farming" isn't even a real thing. Nobody "farms" for IPs, because every interaction you make with another computer on the internet involves sharing your IP addresses with each other. That's how the internet works. Second, tossing out accusation of password farming, when you have zero knowledge of how NS++ works in the first place, is dumb, malicious, and libelous. There is nothing in NS++ that records password fields or keystrokes. Absolutely nothing that intercepts any passwords whatsoever.

Whether or not a browser extension can steal a password is irrelevant to your disgusting accusations. Everything you download onto your computer can steal your passwords. Every browser extension you install can steal your passwords. So, if you don't know what to look for to see if an extension is doing that, then shut up and stop making those accusations.

While I agree with about 90% of what you said glen I will clarify this much. Afforess has previously discussed how his extension processes logins in terms of the switcher feature it has and it is more than probable that Afforess on a whim could have accessed any and all accounts he desired. This was always my primary reason for not using ++.

While that does seem kind of scary, I seriously doubt that Afforess has the time or reason to steal passwords to nations. This not only alludes to the "What if" mentality, but could also cause the "the NSA can do that too" mentality (which is honestly quite tempting), among others.

[Sseroffa]

While that does seem kind of scary, I seriously doubt that Afforess has the time or reason to steal passwords to nations. This not only alludes to the "What if" mentality, but could also cause the "the NSA can do that too" mentality (which is honestly quite tempting), among others.

More than that, it's a felony in the US to steal passwords like the way Nierr has proposed. Since government laws protect the NS++ users I am not sure why there are concerns.

[Mundiferrum]

But I'm not. So rail against the Luddite conspiracy or whatever all you want, but leave me out of your fantasies. I don't appreciate it and I've had just enough interaction with you over the years that I'm good for the foreseeable future.

Ie "I have nothing more to say, and I'm ending my discussion with you with a bang. Now please, shut it".

Also, did you not read what I said about your proposal? I didn't say that you didn't speak any lies, I said that saying whether or not most of your claims there were true or not was invalid--ie, you cannot completely say that they were lies or not, sine they were subjective/hypotheticals/commands. Except, of course, for your first claim, which wasn't a lie, but was absolute fluff, and your claim on "dubious actions" committed by member nations, which is now false (and adding to that, pretty much every nation in their regions commit "dubious actions", at least by the broadest definitions of the term: you didn't define what dubious means), so that, in essence, your proposal is "all lies", or at the very least meatless and pointless.

Adding to this, granted, most of what you said were just "coulds" or "mights", but that either invalidates all of your statements as baseless points (since every browser extension, or even perhaps user with some form of hacking skill could do the things you proposed Afforess "could do" with NS++), or, more clearly, it shows an implication that's obvious and, returning to the previous parenthetic, baseless.

[Nierr]

If I wanted to stir up 'technophobic ignorant lies' - and I will just point out that at no point have I lied about what NS++ does, has done or could do, thank you very much...

You don't actually know whether you have lied, because you know literally nothing about browser extension development, now do you?

Again, at no point have I lied about what NS++ has done.

[Nierr]

Yep. You caught me. I want to drag every region into the raiding game.

Yours is next.

Geez, you're not just misguided, you're flamboyant, arrogant, and militant about it. Some regions stay out of the raiding game for legitimate regions. Nationstates was not only meant for the raiding game, but for robust political discussion free from the downfalls of the already established world. In any case, I highly condemn the use of the WA for the advancement of Raiders or Defenders, unless raided regions didn't want to be raided.

Good lord you're dense.

If you'd paid any attention at all to the recent Liberate Haven crap, you'd have seen that I was one of its main opposition. Hell, I fucking organised the unapproval campaign.

[Nierr]

Except, of course, for your first claim, which wasn't a lie, but was absolute fluff, and your claim on "dubious actions" committed by member nations, which is now false

Actually now not false, seeing as Afforess has a new nation in the region...

[Mundiferrum]

Except, of course, for your first claim, which wasn't a lie, but was absolute fluff, and your claim on "dubious actions" committed by member nations, which is now false

Actually now not false, seeing as Afforess has a new nation in the region...

The player, not the nation "Shadow Afforess". Remember the "no meta-gaming" rule?

And you haven't lied about NS++, but you're tarnishing its reputation by implying that it is being used for whatever harm you're thinking it could do. Same thing, essentially.

Additionally, you may have been against Liberate Haven, but this proposal you're currently supporting, it's worse via the same method. The disapproval campaign was enough, and that could perhaps even be commendable, but this, this is crap, "misguided, flamboyant, arrogant, militant" crap.

[Nierr]

Actually now not false, seeing as Afforess has a new nation in the region...

The player, not the nation "Shadow Afforess". Remember the "no meta-gaming" rule?

And you haven't lied about NS++, but you're tarnishing its reputation by implying that it is being used for whatever harm you're thinking it could do. Same thing, essentially.

Additionally, you may have been against Liberate Haven, but this proposal you're currently supporting, it's worse via the same method. The disapproval campaign was enough, and that could perhaps even be commendable, but this, this is crap, "misguided, flamboyant, arrogant, militant" crap.

I know you're quoting that other guy, but why is flamboyant a bad thing?

[Mundiferrum]

The player, not the nation "Shadow Afforess". Remember the "no meta-gaming" rule?

And you haven't lied about NS++, but you're tarnishing its reputation by implying that it is being used for whatever harm you're thinking it could do. Same thing, essentially.

Additionally, you may have been against Liberate Haven, but this proposal you're currently supporting, it's worse via the same method. The disapproval campaign was enough, and that could perhaps even be commendable, but this, this is crap, "misguided, flamboyant, arrogant, militant" crap.

I know you're quoting that other guy, but why is flamboyant a bad thing?

It isn't. I was half complimenting you there, David Bowie.