[ABANDONED] Commend Northrop-Grumman

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

Not like you can't resubmit it if it gets rejected, too.

[A mean old man]

This doesn't seem necessary.

[Tim-Opolis]

This doesn't seem necessary.

You mean the proposal?

[A mean old man]

This doesn't seem necessary.

You mean the proposal?

Aye.

I'm not really getting why the SC has to commend every person not directly involved in the administration who adds something to the game itself. Especially something extremely minor like this. Commendations weren't made so they could address events that essentially happen outside of the NS world.

[Tim-Opolis]

You mean the proposal?

Aye.

I'm not really getting why the SC has to commend every person not directly involved in the administration who adds something to the game itself. Especially something extremely minor like this. Commendations weren't made so they could address events that essentially happen outside of the NS world.

I understand that.

But how is this a minor thing. The creation of a new theme ranks pretty big in my book.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

I'm not really getting why the SC has to commend every person not directly involved in the administration who adds something to the game itself. Especially something extremely minor like this. Commendations weren't made so they could address events that essentially happen outside of the NS world.

That is the same basic argument I have with the proposal.

[A mean old man]

I understand that.

But how is this a minor thing. The creation of a new theme ranks pretty big in my book.

Do you have any idea how many people have created themes for sites and forums? It's not that hard. I've also seen some themes which are way cooler than the NS "dark" theme. I also don't see how this is in any way relevant to the world of NS, despite your attempts to legitimize it in the proposal's text.

[Connopolis]

I understand that.

But how is this a minor thing. The creation of a new theme ranks pretty big in my book.

Do you have any idea how many people have created themes for sites and forums?

Do you have any idea how many people have created themes for the NS site and forum?

It's not that hard. I've also seen some themes which are way cooler than the NS "dark" theme. I also don't see how this is in any way relevant to the world of NS, despite your attempts to legitimize it in the proposal's text.

That statement smacks of subjectivism. A game theme formatted to be used by anyone at any time is no simple feat, otherwise that wouldn't be the only player created game theme in the 8+ years that NS has been around. If you know what you're doing, of course it's easy; that doesn't mean anyone's willing to do it and make it available to the public with no incentive.

[Tim-Opolis]

Do you have any idea how many people have created themes for sites and forums?

Do you have any idea how many people have created themes for the NS site and forum?

It's not that hard. I've also seen some themes which are way cooler than the NS "dark" theme. I also don't see how this is in any way relevant to the world of NS, despite your attempts to legitimize it in the proposal's text.

That statement smacks of subjectivism. A game theme formatted to be used by anyone at any time is no simple feat, otherwise that wouldn't be the only player created game theme in the 8+ years that NS has been around. If you know what you're doing, of course it's easy; that doesn't mean anyone's willing to do it and make it available to the public with no incentive.

Meh. You beat me to the tongue lashing

[A mean old man]

That statement smacks of subjectivism. A game theme formatted to be used by anyone at any time is no simple feat, otherwise that wouldn't be the only player created game theme in the 8+ years that NS has been around.

That, or the administration never thought to add new themes until now.

If you know what you're doing, of course it's easy; that doesn't mean anyone's willing to do it and make it available to the public with no incentive.

Plenty of people are willing to do things in their spare time and make them available to the public for free. Are all of those things worthy of a WASC commendation? In my personal opinion, this one is not, however we'll obviously continue to disagree on that.

The better question: are all of those things even relevant to the WASC? This resolution's subject is sitting upon if not crossing a line defined by R4.

[Periodspace]

This is a basic draft. Don't hate on me too bad

The Security Council,

ACKNOWLEDGES that the new form of technology created by the highly skilled programmers of Northrop-Grumman, which effectively decreases the amount of light viewed by world leaders to the point where it becomes a comely shade of black,

RECOGNIZING this technology as its more commonly referred to name; the Dark Theme

ALLEVIATED that the leaders of the aforementioned nations may now alter this technology at any moment in time without complications,

HAILING the technicians of Northrop-Grumman for their selfless efforts in advancing technology without any ulterior motive(s),

HEREBY Commends Northrop-Grumman

Co-Authored by Connopolis

I just think that he deserves commendation for what he has done

I agree with you.

[Tim-Opolis]

This is a basic draft. Don't hate on me too bad





I just think that he deserves commendation for what he has done

I agree with you.

Thank you

[Connopolis]

Plenty of people are willing to do things in their spare time and make them available to the public for free. Are all of those things worthy of a WASC commendation? In my personal opinion, this one is not, however we'll obviously continue to disagree on that.

The better question: are all of those things even relevant to the WASC? This resolution's subject is sitting upon if not crossing a line defined by R4.

I believe it's precedent that those who contribute to the technical aspect of the game receive adequate recognition. For example:

SCR#10

Commend Goobergunchia was fundamentally based on the fact that he created the NS wiki, and was well deserved at that.

SCR#21

Commend Imagey Nation was based on their work in creating symbols and logos in the forums for others, also well deserved.

SCR#43

Commend Tiago Silva was about their dedication to re-formatting, and creating many of NS' flags, which, although was very light on material (in regards to the resolution, not his work), was well deserved.

Now, arguing that this body has never advocated the recognition of individuals who improve the technical aspect of the game is simply untrue considering that individuals have been commended for it in the past, and for lesser achievements than creating an entirely new forums skin/game theme.

[A mean old man]

I believe it's precedent that those who contribute to the technical aspect of the game receive adequate recognition. For example:

SCR#10

Commend Goobergunchia was fundamentally based on the fact that he created the NS wiki, and was well deserved at that.

Yet NSwiki had a direct influence on the gameplay/roleplay world of NationStates (and didn't affect the game mechanics whatsoever) in how it documented nations' histories, the WA's actions, and all manner of other events and activity which occurred within the game itself. NSwiki could be perceived as a center of learning for characters within the world of NationStates, and on many occasions was used by players in order to get their characters up to speed.

We might commend people who contribute a lot of information to NSwiki or commend the person who organized the information dump in the first place because it can connect to the in-game world, but we would not commend people for creating a new theme for the NSwiki website or for designing a more coherent way of displaying the website's pages.

Also, the creation and maintenance of NSwiki had no effect on the game mechanics or technical aspects of NationStates, whereas the creation of a theme for the site did (as did the authoring of issues for nations to answer in-game).

SCR#21

Commend Imagey Nation was based on their work in creating symbols and logos in the forums for others, also well deserved.

...this as well had a direct effect on the RP/GP world of NS. Imagey Nation's contributions, like Goob's, did not affect the NationStates site. They also provided nations with images that many recipients used in "in-character" manners in a fashion that could pass off as being "in-character."

SCR#43

Commend Tiago Silva was about their dedication to re-formatting, and creating many of NS' flags, which, although was very light on material (in regards to the resolution, not his work), was well deserved.

This is the first resolution I've seen which comes close to crossing the line I am currently attempting to defend.When I first saw it I thought it was a little odd in how it dealt with a technical aspect of the game, though noted that its target also directly affected the in-game world by providing nations with better-looking flags to adopt when they emerged and believed it could just barely pass as something which could be considered "IC" and R4-friendly.

This proposed commendation, however, as well as the proposed commendation of the issues author, are very obviously addressing solely technical areas of this site. If observed from even the most lenient, "in-character" standpoint, a foreign nation cannot have created or organized (or however Connopolis trying to argue that; it's pretty foggy to me) the domestic issues existing within thousands of other nations. Likewise, there is no way to explain in an in-character fashion that a nation created a color scheme with which all the world's national leaders are somehow observing their nations.

It's hard to make the above sound coherent because it just isn't coherent. This doesn't make any sense when one attempts to make it R4-compliant because it cannot make any sense when one tries to do such a thing. If there's no way to describe a player's accomplishments in an R4-compliant way without twisting them so much that they cannot be logically conceived afterwards, it's time to drop the idea.

Now, arguing that this body has never advocated the recognition of individuals who improve the technical aspect of the game is simply untrue considering that individuals have been commended for it in the past, and for lesser achievements than creating an entirely new forums skin/game theme.

The first two examples are twisted in order to fit your idea of improvements to the "technical aspect" of the game. Unlike the targets of the two proposals I am currently fighting, the accomplishments targeted by the first two examples of passed legislation have had very direct effects on the in-game activity itself. The third contains a lot of gray area, but its connection to the in-character world can still be made (though not without a little twisting). This proposal and the other proposal much like it which I have been arguing against do not share the justifiable connection to the in-character world that these three examples share.

Perhaps you should try to explain the connection to the in-game world here rather than fall back on this kind of argument.

[LUX]

I've decided to test out the dark theme just for this commendation.

I have a nation in the WA and I'm strictly against this proposal should it go anywhere. Call me a picky, rude arsed bastard because I work with the internet and computers, however the dark theme was-is not ready for publication.

• He didn't take into account that due to the fact that since the smilies while posting have white around them they look rather odd, therefore he should've left them in a white box.
• Same thing with the circles/sticky icon that change colors to indicate whether or not there's a new post in a forum.
• Once again the same with the board index icon, user control panel button, members button, search button, and logout button.
• While the settings page doesn't have the background that it normally would if you were in default.

That's just after overview a page or two, the contrasting colors with the graphic ads with the running old lady and the diploma isn't very good for my eyes, therefore I'm switching back to default.

[A mean old man]

I've decided to test out the dark theme just for this commendation.

I have a nation in the WA and I'm strictly against this proposal should it go anywhere. Call me a picky, rude arsed bastard because I work with the internet and computers, however the dark theme was-is not ready for publication.

• He didn't take into account that due to the fact that since the smilies while posting have white around them they look rather odd, therefore he should've left them in a white box.
• Same thing with the circles/sticky icon that change colors to indicate whether or not there's a new post in a forum.
• Once again the same with the board index icon, user control panel button, members button, search button, and logout button.
• While the settings page doesn't have the background that it normally would if you were in default.

That's just after overview a page or two, the contrasting colors with the graphic ads with the running old lady and the diploma isn't very good for my eyes, therefore I'm switching back to default.

Yeah, I couldn't use it for long either. It conflicts visually with a lot of other things going on on the screen.

[Northrop-Grumman]

I noticed this thread yesterday, so allow me to add my input into some of this.

LUX: I'm quite aware of the problem regarding the smilies and various other forum icons/pictures that have white pixels surrounding them and it's been something that's been bugging me to no end. However, if you'll notice that the main site and most of the pictures therein lack these sort of issues, mainly because Max and the admins were quite careful in designing everything. Now the forums use a theme that's designed by phpBB and looks like they did it half-assed. Note the smilies to the right of the post reply box; some of them are well-done and lack the white pixels, while others look terrible. They could have done good work on it, but they didn't. Anyway, my intention at some point is to clean up some of these pictures, if I can, and see if they can be reuploaded so that they aren't as horrible looking.

Tim-Opolis: Thank you for the kudos! It's much appreciated! But in all honesty, this is just something that I did in my spare time and I think that there are probably many other people that have added more meaningful content to the game and deserve a commendation much more than I do.

EDIT: Also, if people have commentary about it (not criticizing anyone who is doing it in this thread), I've got a thread in my sig just for that purpose.

[Glen-Rhodes]

ACKNOWLEDGES that the new form of technology created by the highly skilled programmers of Northrop-Grumman, which effectively decreases the amount of light viewed by world leaders to the point where it becomes a comely shade of black,

RECOGNIZING this technology as its more commonly referred to name; the Dark Theme

I have no problem commending Northrop-Grumman. I don't use the dark theme, but plenty of people do and it's even been integrated into the official website. And it looks pretty nice, too.

But can I just say that the level of absurdity required in C&Cs has completely changed my mind about this damn rule.

[A mean old man]

Thank you for your honest and modest response to this, N-G.

[Sedgistan]

This proposal is illegal - see this ruling.

[Tim-Opolis]

Okay. Thank you


Mind closing the topic?