[DEFEATED] Commend Eastern Islands of Dharma

[Sedgistan]

Commend Eastern Islands of Dharma

The Security Council,

Recognizing that Eastern Islands of Dharma is an entity that greatly aids the World Assembly by welcoming national delegations newly entered into the international body and by teaching many national delegations the art of writing proposals for both the General Assembly and the Security Council;

Praising the natives of the region for, at the time of this resolution's writing, having produced forty-three resolutions that have helped improve the world, such as the resolution “Institutional Psychiatry Act,” which gave all persons with a mental illness or who are treated as such the right to mental health facilities, psychiatric treatment, and counseling and rehabilitation by mental health professionals;

Further Recognizing the region’s diplomatic works, one example of which being its treaty with Capitalist Paradise which allows members of Eastern Islands of Dharma to persuade individual WA member nations in Capitalist Paradise to vote certain ways on current or upcoming WA resolutions;

Observing Eastern Islands of Dharma’s embracement of diversity within the region, being home to many types of nations;

Further Noting that the region is a place of refuge for the delegations of many disorderly and disruptive nations whose conduct has brought their nations near to complete ruin and that Eastern Islands of Dharma, through providing the delegations of such problematic nations with wisened counsel on etiquette, provides hope that these nations may reform their ways and someday play a more important and productive role within the world;

Believing that such achievements should not go unrewarded;

Hereby commends Eastern Islands of Dharma.

[Oliver the Mediocre]

If the struck-out clauses were removed, I would feel a lot better about this proposal. Membership in the Founderless Regions Alliance is not in and of itself commendable, I believe, and neither is being in charge of it.

Edit: Even without them, there is a fair amount of commendable material, here.

Commend Eastern Islands of Dharma

The Security Council,

Recognizing that Eastern Islands of Dharma is an environment that greatly aids the World Assembly, by teaching many national delegations the art of proposal writing in both assemblies and warmly welcoming new delegations that enter the assemblies;

Praising the natives of the region for at the time of writing, having produced more than forty-one resolutions that have help provide a better world such as the resolution “Institutional Psychiatry Act”, which gave all persons with a mental illness or who are treated as such the right to metal health faculties, psychiatric treatment, counseling and rehabilitation by mental health professionals;

Noting that Eastern Islands of Dharma is a member of the Founderless Region Alliance (FRA), a defender force that works to provide defense and or liberate regions with no founders;

Applauds that the region is home to an active defense squadron of the FRA and that the current Arch-Chancellor of the FRA is Dharmarian;

Further Recognizing the region’s diplomatic works, with such examples as the treaty with Capitalist Paradise, that allows such actions as Dharmarians, or natives of Eastern Islands of Dharma, to post on the Regional Message Board of Capitalist Paradise to lobby individual member-nations in regards to World Assembly resolutions;

Observing Eastern Islands of Dharma’s embracement of diversity within the region, being home to many types of nations;

Further Noting that the region is a place of refuge for nations in trouble with NationStates' rules , giving hope though proper teaching, in which helps them play a more important role within the world;

Believing that such achievements should not go unrewarded;

Hereby commends Eastern Islands of Dharma.

I am new at this, but dont go easy on me

[Jeux II]

If the struck-out clauses were removed, I would feel a lot better about this proposal. Membership in the Founderless Regions Alliance is not in and of itself commendable, I believe, and neither is being in charge of it.

Edit: Even without them, there is a fair amount of commendable material, here.

Commend Eastern Islands of Dharma

The Security Council,

Recognizing that Eastern Islands of Dharma is an environment that greatly aids the World Assembly, by teaching many national delegations the art of proposal writing in both assemblies and warmly welcoming new delegations that enter the assemblies;

Praising the natives of the region for at the time of writing, having produced more than forty-one resolutions that have help provide a better world such as the resolution “Institutional Psychiatry Act”, which gave all persons with a mental illness or who are treated as such the right to metal health faculties, psychiatric treatment, counseling and rehabilitation by mental health professionals;

Noting that Eastern Islands of Dharma is a member of the Founderless Region Alliance (FRA), a defender force that works to provide defense and or liberate regions with no founders;

Applauds that the region is home to an active defense squadron of the FRA and that the current Arch-Chancellor of the FRA is Dharmarian;

Further Recognizing the region’s diplomatic works, with such examples as the treaty with Capitalist Paradise, that allows such actions as Dharmarians, or natives of Eastern Islands of Dharma, to post on the Regional Message Board of Capitalist Paradise to lobby individual member-nations in regards to World Assembly resolutions;

Observing Eastern Islands of Dharma’s embracement of diversity within the region, being home to many types of nations;

Further Noting that the region is a place of refuge for nations in trouble with NationStates' rules , giving hope though proper teaching, in which helps them play a more important role within the world;

Believing that such achievements should not go unrewarded;

Hereby commends Eastern Islands of Dharma.

I am new at this, but dont go easy on me

I knew someone was going to say something about the FRA when I placed that in there.

[Oliver the Mediocre]

If the struck-out clauses were removed, I would feel a lot better about this proposal. Membership in the Founderless Regions Alliance is not in and of itself commendable, I believe, and neither is being in charge of it.

Edit: Even without them, there is a fair amount of commendable material, here.

[proposal text snipped]

I knew someone was going to say something about the FRA when I placed that in there.

Generally speaking, it's not a bad commendation, but yeah, the FRA inclusion is pretty much a no-go area for me.

[Jeux II]

I knew someone was going to say something about the FRA when I placed that in there.

Generally speaking, it's not a bad commendation, but yeah, the FRA inclusion is pretty much a no-go area for me.

I still want to have the region's defence force in the commendation. I can just cut out the words FRA.

[Oliver the Mediocre]

Generally speaking, it's not a bad commendation, but yeah, the FRA inclusion is pretty much a no-go area for me.

I still want to have the region's defence force in the commendation. I can just cut out the words FRA.

Is merely having a defence force and engaging in defending really commendable? The vast majority of regions which are defended never know you were there. Most of the time your intervention is not requested, and for all you know, may not be welcome. No, I'm not quite so sure that defending in and of itself is a commendable action...

[Sedgistan]

Further Noting that the region is a place of refuge for nations in trouble with NationStates' rules , giving hope though proper teaching, in which helps them play a more important role within the world;

That clause concerns me. I'm sure it could be re-written in a more Rule 4 friendly way - at the moment, it's hard to read it as referring to anything other than the rules of NationStates the game.

[Jeux II]

I still want to have the region's defence force in the commendation. I can just cut out the words FRA.

Is merely having a defence force and engaging in defending really commendable? The vast majority of regions which are defended never know you were there. Most of the time your intervention is not requested, and for all you know, may not be welcome. No, I'm not quite so sure that defending in and of itself is a commendable action...

Well if raiding is condemnable, defending is commendable. Look at the resolution to commend 10000 islands, it talks about the regions use of the TITO, thier defending force. Raiders are never welcome to begain with, and defending is doing more good than harm it seems to me. So I am most likely keeping it in the proposal.

[Jeux II]

Further Noting that the region is a place of refuge for nations in trouble with NationStates' rules , giving hope though proper teaching, in which helps them play a more important role within the world;

That clause concerns me. I'm sure it could be re-written in a more Rule 4 friendly way - at the moment, it's hard to read it as referring to anything other than the rules of NationStates the game.

Yes, I was very worried about that. What is I said, "is a place of refuge for unruly nations"

[Oliver the Mediocre]

Is merely having a defence force and engaging in defending really commendable? The vast majority of regions which are defended never know you were there. Most of the time your intervention is not requested, and for all you know, may not be welcome. No, I'm not quite so sure that defending in and of itself is a commendable action...

Well if raiding is condemnable, defending is commendable. Look at the resolution to commend 10000 islands, it talks about the regions use of the TITO, thier defending force. Raiders are never welcome to begain with, and defending is doing more good than harm it seems to me. So I am most likely keeping it in the proposal.

Wait, raiding is commendable? That's news to me. The resolution to commend 10KI is much more based in the idea that their defending force is special, one of the first, one of the largest, one of the most effective; the commendation is for being outstanding, not being defender.

I can appreciate your desire to keep it in the proposal, but I do want to be very clear. The idea that defending is inherently good and raiding is inherently bad is just a matter of point of view. I won't entirely rehash the debate, but defending clamps down on the legitimate activities of sovereign nations and regions, and stifles that activity. Defenders claim to stand up for the little guy, but their intervention is rarely noticed, let alone requested. Defenders are defined by their opposition to raiding, not the language they choose to dress it in.

Would I commend a raider? Yes, if the raider contributed in some significant way to the growth of the practice, or stood out from among all the raiders in some way. The biggest, the first, the best. I wouldn't commend a raider for simply being active, and you shouldn't commend a defender for the same.

[Jeux II]

Well if raiding is condemnable, defending is commendable. Look at the resolution to commend 10000 islands, it talks about the regions use of the TITO, thier defending force. Raiders are never welcome to begain with, and defending is doing more good than harm it seems to me. So I am most likely keeping it in the proposal.

Wait, raiding is commendable? That's news to me. The resolution to commend 10KI is much more based in the idea that their defending force is special, one of the first, one of the largest, one of the most effective; the commendation is for being outstanding, not being defender.

I can appreciate your desire to keep it in the proposal, but I do want to be very clear. The idea that defending is inherently good and raiding is inherently bad is just a matter of point of view. I won't entirely rehash the debate, but defending clamps down on the legitimate activities of sovereign nations and regions, and stifles that activity. Defenders claim to stand up for the little guy, but their intervention is rarely noticed, let alone requested. Defenders are defined by their opposition to raiding, not the language they choose to dress it in.

Would I commend a raider? Yes, if the raider contributed in some significant way to the growth of the practice, or stood out from among all the raiders in some way. The biggest, the first, the best. I wouldn't commend a raider for simply being active, and you shouldn't commend a defender for the same.

You seem to not understant the point I am getting at. I am keeping this in the proposal because I am treating it as an achievement to be a great defender region, not just a defender. Such as raiders being a great raider region, not just raiders. You commend for your achievements, and in this case, they help in the greater good. Yes, raiders help raiders, and yes, some people view this as a good thing. But the proposal commends them on the achievement of being great defenders, as you can have a proposal that commends a region on being good raiders. This is not just a thing of good vs evil and people view them differently, it is a proposal "agian" commending them on the achievement.

[Oliver the Mediocre]

Wait, raiding is commendable? That's news to me. The resolution to commend 10KI is much more based in the idea that their defending force is special, one of the first, one of the largest, one of the most effective; the commendation is for being outstanding, not being defender.

I can appreciate your desire to keep it in the proposal, but I do want to be very clear. The idea that defending is inherently good and raiding is inherently bad is just a matter of point of view. I won't entirely rehash the debate, but defending clamps down on the legitimate activities of sovereign nations and regions, and stifles that activity. Defenders claim to stand up for the little guy, but their intervention is rarely noticed, let alone requested. Defenders are defined by their opposition to raiding, not the language they choose to dress it in.

Would I commend a raider? Yes, if the raider contributed in some significant way to the growth of the practice, or stood out from among all the raiders in some way. The biggest, the first, the best. I wouldn't commend a raider for simply being active, and you shouldn't commend a defender for the same.

You seem to not understant the point I am getting at. I am keeping this in the proposal because I am treating it as an achievement to be a great defender region, not just a defender. Such as raiders being a great raider region, not just raiders. You commend for your achievements, and in this case, they help in the greater good. Yes, raiders help raiders, and yes, some people view this as a good thing. But the proposal commends them on the achievement of being great defenders, as you can have a proposal that commends a region on being good raiders. This is not just a thing of good vs evil and people view them differently, it is a proposal "agian" commending them on the achievement.

I just don't think the Eastern Islands of Dharma have excelled in this above and beyond other defender-oriented regions.

[New Portage]

I've been a defender since I've been in NS, and that's going on 5 years now. And I've seen so many commend/condemns fail because of military alignment. So getting rid of the military side of it, I really don't see anything that deserves commending here, what puts EIoD above any other region.

[Jeux II]

I've been a defender since I've been in NS, and that's going on 5 years now. And I've seen so many commend/condemns fail because of military alignment. So getting rid of the military side of it, I really don't see anything that deserves commending here, what puts EIoD above any other region.

What military alignment are you talking about, raiders defender thing? And there is alot the region can be commend for, did you read the thing or just feel like you needed to say something?

[New Portage]

I've been a defender since I've been in NS, and that's going on 5 years now. And I've seen so many commend/condemns fail because of military alignment. So getting rid of the military side of it, I really don't see anything that deserves commending here, what puts EIoD above any other region.

What military alignment are you talking about, raiders defender thing? And there is alot the region can be commend for, did you read the thing or just feel like you needed to say something?

I am talking about the FRA thing. I don't think any commend/condemn resolution should deal with military organizations. And yes, I read it. I wouldn't of commented otherwise. See I dont see anything worth commending here. End of the my story. peace out.

[A mean old man]

Here are my proposed edits. You may do what you like with them.

The Security Council,

Recognizing that Eastern Islands of Dharma is an entity that greatly aids the World Assembly, by welcoming national delegations newly entered into the international body and by teaching many national delegations the art of writing proposals for both the General Assembly and the Security Council;

I thought that the way "environment" was used in the sentence seemed a little strange and changed it to "entity."

No need for the highlighted comma.

I also re-worded the end of the clause.

Praising the natives of the region for, at the time of this resolution's writing, having produced more than forty-one resolutions that have helped improve the world, such as the resolution “Institutional Psychiatry Act,” which gave all persons with a mental illness or who are treated as such the right to mental health facilities, psychiatric treatment, and counseling and rehabilitation by mental health professionals;

I have made various edits to improve the way that the clause flows. Also, you forgot the “n” in “mental” and I replaced “faculties” with “facilities,” as I believe “facilities” was what you meant to say there. Still, “mental health facilities” sounds like a strange term to me.

Noting that Eastern Islands of Dharma is a member of the Founderless Region Alliance (FRA), a defender force that works to provide defense for and/or liberate regions with no founders;

“For” and the slash I added should be in there.

Applauds the region for being home to an active defense squadron of the FRA and that the current Arch-Chancellor of the FRA is also from Eastern Islands of Dharma;

Fixed some awkwardness around the beginning.

Also, you can keep “Dharmarian” if you want, but it took me a few seconds to figure out what the hell it was, and I imagine might confuse others reading the proposal as well.

Further Recognizing the region’s diplomatic works, one example of which being its treaty with Capitalist Paradise which allows members of Eastern Islands of Dharma to post on the Regional Message Board of Capitalist Paradise to persuade individual WA member nations there to vote certain ways on current or upcoming WA resolutions;

You defined “Dharmarians” here; however, it’d be best to define it the first time it appears in the resolution. I edited it out again because it bugs me, but if you really want it to be in the resolution, I’d recommend finding a way to weave an explanation of the term into the previous clause after it first shows up in the text.

I also gave the whole clause a facelift and just decided to highlight the whole thing. I’m still not sure whether or not I like it yet, though.

Observing Eastern Islands of Dharma’s embracement of diversity within the region, being home to many types of nations;

[no edit]

Further Noting that the region is a place of refuge for nations in trouble with NationStates' rules, giving hope though proper teaching, in which helps them play a more important role within the world;

There’s an unnecessary space in between “rules” and the comma. However, I have to ask – are you sure this isn’t a violation of Rule #4? You might want to check with a moderator here.
NOTE: Never mind, I noticed your discussion with Sedge earlier. I bet I could work out a way to make this R4-compliant; give me a moment...

Believing that such achievements should not go unrewarded;

Hereby commends Eastern Islands of Dharma.

Overall, it isn’t bad. Good luck.

[The Real Colterica WA]

Against

[A mean old man]

Further Noting that the region is a place of refuge for the delegations of many disorderly and disruptive nations whose conduct has brought their nations near to complete ruin and that Eastern Islands of Dharma, through providing the delegations of such problematic nations with wisened counsel on etiquette, provides hope that these nations may reform their ways and someday play a more important and productive role within the world;

There. That looks R4-compliant enough. Although, since Unibot the First died for our sins, I don't know how great of a piece of material this is...

[Lethen]

I like the proposal, namely I think it should pass due to the merits of sheer quality contribution to the World Assembly (and I am to assume the United Nations, when this beast was still under that name). However, my qualms lie with the two lines below (warning: I agree with Oliver, but for different reasons).

Noting that Eastern Islands of Dharma is a member of the Founderless Region Alliance (FRA), a defender force that works to provide defense and or liberate regions with no founders;

We shouldn't commend (or condemn) someone for being a member of an organization that is, while a physical region itself, mainly a collective body of various regions in NS and is not necessarily affected by the goings-on in the World Assembly directly (outside of the Security Council). It would be like, as a friend put it to me, "commending a nation for being part of a region." Why water down a commendation this way when they should only be passed based on the merits of the individual and all that they've done that makes the contributions particularly admirable?

Applauds that the region is home to an active defense squadron of the FRA and that the current Arch-Chancellor of the FRA is Dharmarian

Well, putting what I've said above aside, I don't like this because we'd be commending someone for a political post which largely is decided outside the realm of the NationStates game itself. Did anything mentioned in this proposal contribute to Dharmarian being elected to the Arch-Chancellorship? Perhaps some (I haven't read Unibot's manifesto though I do have a copy somewhere), but most likely not much at all. That could potentially open up a can of worms, as someone may be condemned for being elected the leader of The Black Hawks or commended for being elected for a few terms...which would be fine if their contributions in office focused mainly on the World Assembly, but seeing as how that is never the case (Can anyone tell me about all the great work Pope Lexus X did as multi-term President of Europeia? Doubt you could off the top of your head), I don't think that it would appropriate.

[Jeux II]

I like the proposal, namely I think it should pass due to the merits of sheer quality contribution to the World Assembly (and I am to assume the United Nations, when this beast was still under that name). However, my qualms lie with the two lines below (warning: I agree with Oliver, but for different reasons).

Noting that Eastern Islands of Dharma is a member of the Founderless Region Alliance (FRA), a defender force that works to provide defense and or liberate regions with no founders;

We shouldn't commend (or condemn) someone for being a member of an organization that is, while a physical region itself, mainly a collective body of various regions in NS and is not necessarily affected by the goings-on in the World Assembly directly (outside of the Security Council). It would be like, as a friend put it to me, "commending a nation for being part of a region." Why water down a commendation this way when they should only be passed based on the merits of the individual and all that they've done that makes the contributions particularly admirable?

Applauds that the region is home to an active defense squadron of the FRA and that the current Arch-Chancellor of the FRA is Dharmarian

Well, putting what I've said above aside, I don't like this because we'd be commending someone for a political post which largely is decided outside the realm of the NationStates game itself. Did anything mentioned in this proposal contribute to Dharmarian being elected to the Arch-Chancellorship? Perhaps some (I haven't read Unibot's manifesto though I do have a copy somewhere), but most likely not much at all. That could potentially open up a can of worms, as someone may be condemned for being elected the leader of The Black Hawks or commended for being elected for a few terms...which would be fine if their contributions in office focused mainly on the World Assembly, but seeing as how that is never the case (Can anyone tell me about all the great work Pope Lexus X did as multi-term President of Europeia? Doubt you could off the top of your head), I don't think that it would appropriate.

There, I have cleared the fact that it is not a region but a organization. And you make a good point but again, we are not commending them for just being in the FRA but for what they have achieved being a member, or what they have done for it.

[Oliver the Mediocre]

I like the proposal, namely I think it should pass due to the merits of sheer quality contribution to the World Assembly (and I am to assume the United Nations, when this beast was still under that name). However, my qualms lie with the two lines below (warning: I agree with Oliver, but for different reasons).


We shouldn't commend (or condemn) someone for being a member of an organization that is, while a physical region itself, mainly a collective body of various regions in NS and is not necessarily affected by the goings-on in the World Assembly directly (outside of the Security Council). It would be like, as a friend put it to me, "commending a nation for being part of a region." Why water down a commendation this way when they should only be passed based on the merits of the individual and all that they've done that makes the contributions particularly admirable?


Well, putting what I've said above aside, I don't like this because we'd be commending someone for a political post which largely is decided outside the realm of the NationStates game itself. Did anything mentioned in this proposal contribute to Dharmarian being elected to the Arch-Chancellorship? Perhaps some (I haven't read Unibot's manifesto though I do have a copy somewhere), but most likely not much at all. That could potentially open up a can of worms, as someone may be condemned for being elected the leader of The Black Hawks or commended for being elected for a few terms...which would be fine if their contributions in office focused mainly on the World Assembly, but seeing as how that is never the case (Can anyone tell me about all the great work Pope Lexus X did as multi-term President of Europeia? Doubt you could off the top of your head), I don't think that it would appropriate.

There, I have cleared the fact that it is not a region but a organization. And you make a good point but again, we are not commending them for just being in the FRA but for what they have achieved being a member, or what they have done for it.

I'm still not going to vote for this. It's still commending Dharma for defending, and for having the current FRA Chancellor. It's still unacceptable, I'm afraid. Dharma's defensive activities are nothing special, and you can pass a commendation without the FRA stuff, I'm quite certain of it.

[Frattastan]

If the struck-out clauses were removed, I would feel a lot better about this proposal. Membership in the Founderless Regions Alliance is not in and of itself commendable, I believe, and neither is being in charge of it.

Actually, membership in a functioning interregional organisation dedicated to the protection of founderless regions is commendable in itself, and has already been considered as a positive thing by the SC in "Liberate Utopia" (Recalling that Utopia is a historic region, which has greatly contributed to the world’s security with its involvement in the Allied Liberation League - a defending organization -)

Is merely having a defence force and engaging in defending really commendable?

Surely it is. There are precedents of individuals being commended mainly for their huge contributions to the security of founderless regions.

The vast majority of regions which are defended never know you were there.

I always telegram natives, and get answered too most of the times, ranging from "Thank you" to "Hey ! Thanks and let's keep in touch", etc. etc.

Most of the time your intervention is not requested, and for all you know, may not be welcome. No, I'm not quite so sure that defending in and of itself is a commendable action...

I can assure that, out of every defence/liberation run in the last six months, only one wasn't welcomed by the natives of a region.
Defending is commendable since it fully conforms to the purpose of the Security Council, that is "spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary". Defending is the protection of a community against foreign aggression, and I can't see how it isn't inherently commendable.

[Oliver the Mediocre]

Actually, membership in a functioning interregional organisation dedicated to the protection of founderless regions is commendable in itself, and has already been considered as a positive thing by the SC in "Liberate Utopia" (Recalling that Utopia is a historic region, which has greatly contributed to the world’s security with its involvement in the Allied Liberation League - a defending organization -)

If this were a commendation of Utopia, I'd certainly agree, but it's not, it's a liberation.

Edit: The above was a little unclear. What I'm saying is, if the resolution question in were commending Utopia for that action, this would be a legitimate piece of evidence, but it's taken from a liberation, which has no power to condemn or commend.

Surely it is. There are precedents of individuals being commended mainly for their huge contributions to the security of founderless regions

Emphasis mine. Eastern Islands of Dharma does not go over and above the actions of other defenders, they are not innovative or excellent in their field; They're normal defenders, doing normal defending, and not deserving of a commendation for that work.

I always telegram natives, and get answered too most of the times, ranging from "Thank you" to "Hey ! Thanks and let's keep in touch", etc. etc.

I was unaware of this, but to my understanding (and experience), this is certainly not the norm.

Defending is commendable since it fully conforms to the purpose of the Security Council, that is "spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary". Defending is the protection of a community against foreign aggression, and I can't see how it isn't inherently commendable.

Defending is not inherently commendable. It is meddling on par with raiding, with a slightly different aim. Though you claim to be in support of founderless regions, it is far more often a desire to prevent raiders from succeeding and "defeat" them than a care for founderless regions which guides the aims of defenders. Defenders raid regions which belong legitimately to raiders, notably the FRA Invasion of LKE territory. I make no claim to moral superiority, and neither should you.

There. You have your truths, and I have mine. Perhaps we should commend Dharma for the commendable things it has done, and leave aside this petty argument that defenders should be commended solely for defending.

[Swift Sure]

I agree with Oliver and along similar lines, is vote lobbying really a commendable thing?

Further Recognizing the region’s diplomatic works, one example of which being its treaty with Capitalist Paradise which allows members of Eastern Islands of Dharma to post on the Regional Message Board of Capitalist Paradise to persuade individual WA member nations there to vote certain ways on current or upcoming WA resolutions;

[A mean old man]

Not going to adopt the other edits?

It won't bother me. Well, it will bother me, but I won't press you to any further if the answer is no.