[CLOSED] Repeal Commend The Red Fleet

[Cora II]

Now this is going really clowny here...

When I was TRF Squadron Admiral few years ago, I represented most offensively oriented wing in the Admiralty, and I can't recall a BS of this magnitude then.

If there are anything even remotely related to islamofascistic, ultra-conservative, militant religious fanaticism in past or present The Red Fleet, then its Me, my purist raider fellows, and Isolated, totalitarian, and religiously fundamentalist raider Witch-Queendom, and it's dirty mercs.

Only difference is that we worship Crom in our deep faith to The one, Almighty Raideron.

Next!

[Nodin]

The difference between them and the Nazis they fight is rather simple: They aren't Nazis. There really doesn't need to be any other difference, as that one is more than sufficient.

The Nazis are holed up in National Socialist Ministries. Misley has acknowledged that NSM is the real McCoy. Time and again, NSM members have asserted that regions like NE and the former TGGR are an insult to Nazism. On NSM’s RMB you can view them whinging about my censorship and ‘small mind’ and dismissing NE as a collection of conservatives and a cuckservative region.

If you do buy off on the notion that NE and TGGR are anything but insults to Nazism, TRF’s attempts to ‘fight’ that kind of Nazism have resulted in the formation of the largest Nazi region to ever exist in the game—to my knowledge. I can't seem to figure out how that's commendable.

I'll wait while you compile the list.

The list can be found in Free Soc’s Condemn TRF topic (viewtopic.php?p=11359348#p11359348) and in a number of the Condemn Antifa topics. When Antifa was on the chopping block, you folks typically argued that TRF was responsible for the destruction. The Left consistently avoids condemnation by popping open one umbrella or another.

• Let's just point out a couple of things. Antifa and The Red Fleet are closely aligned but not always the same thing. For those class concious workers, the differences between Capitalism and Fascism are nominal, one is the last stand of the other, the two are inseparable on a class basis, both are enemies of the working classes.

Whether or not that region is "fascist" may be up for dispute, but it's vastly oppressive nature towards the great toiling masses is self evident. So, in the immortal words of Rage Against The Machine, directed at the great working classes: "Seize tha metropolis. It's you it's built on." —Kikomunisti, TRF
viewtopic.php?p=11324857#p11324857

• The Red Fleet , broadly speaking, subscribes to a Communist philosophy

As this ideology is diametrically opposed to capitalism it should come as no surprise that we consider capitalist regions as legitimate targets

If you are uncomfortable with that truth then , as the saying goes, that is your problem—ForeStarnya, TRF
viewtopic.php?p=11340300#p11340300

That's not how membership in any organization works. Godless Monkey is not and has never been a member of The Red Fleet.

Funny stuff coming from an individual who thinks everyone who participates in a right-wing coalition op is a ‘fash’. GM participates in update capacity with TRF and supports all TRF ops. Darth Maul is correct. For all intents and purposes GM is TRF.

They had embassies with REATO members.

How you think that exonerates TRF of foul play is beyond me. The whole umbrella: TRF, MT Army, Antifa, KPA and FJA have all targeted and destroyed innocent regions for simply holding an embassy with a leftist enemy. REATO has only ever responded to the Left targeting capitalist regions. In other words, Misley, the Left not the Right started it.

[Misley]

nah, i'm pretty sure it's the hundreds of dollars you've poured into telegram stamps that have made NE the size that it is now.

and while NSM lambast NE and the former "Greater German Reich" as fake Nazis, you can't deny that there are plenty of honest-to-god fascists and Nazis that inhabit your region. Just because you're not one yourself doesn't change the facts, Woody.

it will perhaps surprise you to learn that ForeStarnya gave up his commission back in 2013, shortly after La Pasionaria was deleted. he has not had a role in The Red Fleet since, so his three-year old opinion on what makes a valid target for The Red Fleet really doesn't apply here.

and in case people forget, Libertatem entered this whole game when they buddied up to GGR a few years ago. if they didn't know the world they were entering by trying to make friends with the fash, that's not really my problem. I'll happily raid them, REATO regions, and their friends until they're all dust.

[ii Darth Maul ii]

For what it's worth, I will continue to support this proposal until it is passed. The correlation between Red Fleet operations and Nazi Europa's growth is undeniable. Europa was basically a backwater when I was founded about seven years ago. Now, it has over 600 nations. Just by putting two and two together, the Fleet's activity has only served to grow Europa.

[Misley]

For what it's worth, I will continue to support this proposal until it is passed. The correlation between Red Fleet operations and Nazi Europa's growth is undeniable. Europa was basically a backwater when I was founded about seven years ago. Now, it has over 600 nations. Just by putting two and two together, the Fleet's activity has only served to grow Europa.

Nazi Europa didn't exist seven years ago, and neither did Woody's stamp recruitment campaigns.

Did no one teach you that correlation isn't causation?

[The Stalker]

nah, i'm pretty sure it's the hundreds of dollars you've poured into telegram stamps that have made NE the size that it is now.

lol right, hilarious how he acts so proud of NE size, when it's merely for having deep pockets. Think we don't get your 50000 stamp recruit tg or something?

Nodin just likes telling half truths, it's his thing, anyone that buys into it is a fool.

Anyways this will never pass, surprised it's made it to 6 pages.

[Cormac Stark]

For what it's worth, I will continue to support this proposal until it is passed. The correlation between Red Fleet operations and Nazi Europa's growth is undeniable. Europa was basically a backwater when I was founded about seven years ago. Now, it has over 600 nations. Just by putting two and two together, the Fleet's activity has only served to grow Europa.

My region, Asgard, is at 230+ nations, the most it has ever had. Tell me which of these causes seems most plausible to you:

1. Just by putting two and two together, the Founderless Regions Alliance's activity has only served to grow Asgard.
2. Cormac Stark spends $20 a month on telegram stamps so he can send 20K automated recruitment telegrams per month.

Clearly, it's the FRA. They should totally stop defending now, lest regions like Asgard grow!

[ii Darth Maul ii]

For what it's worth, I will continue to support this proposal until it is passed. The correlation between Red Fleet operations and Nazi Europa's growth is undeniable. Europa was basically a backwater when I was founded about seven years ago. Now, it has over 600 nations. Just by putting two and two together, the Fleet's activity has only served to grow Europa.

Nazi Europa didn't exist seven years ago, and neither did Woody's stamp recruitment campaigns.

Did no one teach you that correlation isn't causation?

A general statement about statistics does not hide the obvious. As the Fleet raids far right wing regions, the original nations head to the most prominent fascist region, Nazi Europa. I've tried my hand at stamps before, and it is absolutely ludicrous to attribute the exponential growth of a region to stamps. You are afraid to admit the other cause, and so you use stamps as an excuse.

[Cormac Stark]

A general statement about statistics does not hide the obvious. As the Fleet raids far right wing regions, the original nations head to the most prominent fascist region, Nazi Europa. I've tried my hand at stamps before, and it is absolutely ludicrous to attribute the exponential growth of a region to stamps. You are afraid to admit the other cause, and so you use stamps as an excuse.

Hi! Me again, since you seem to have missed my last post.

My region gained 230 nations in less than a month, using stamps. Totally possible for stamps to deliver that kind of exponential growth. Perhaps your recruitment telegram is just bad.

[Misley]

Nazi Europa didn't exist seven years ago, and neither did Woody's stamp recruitment campaigns.

Did no one teach you that correlation isn't causation?

A general statement about statistics does not hide the obvious. As the Fleet raids far right wing regions, the original nations head to the most prominent fascist region, Nazi Europa. I've tried my hand at stamps before, and it is absolutely ludicrous to attribute the exponential growth of a region to stamps. You are afraid to admit the other cause, and so you use stamps as an excuse.

Really? Ludicrous?

Tell that to The Communist Bloc, who are the second (or third, haven't checked in a while) largest UCR and have never had the kind of adversarial military response that Nazis get.

[The Stalker]

Stamps are the easiest and main source of growth for all the largest regions.

If you throw enough money at it you get results. On occasion i've gotten stamps I get a really decent rate of return, and for NE I image their return is lower than the average region therefore the reason they spend hundreds of dollars. Gotta be a lot, I couldn't imagine wasting that much money lol.

[ii Darth Maul ii]

A general statement about statistics does not hide the obvious. As the Fleet raids far right wing regions, the original nations head to the most prominent fascist region, Nazi Europa. I've tried my hand at stamps before, and it is absolutely ludicrous to attribute the exponential growth of a region to stamps. You are afraid to admit the other cause, and so you use stamps as an excuse.

Really? Ludicrous?

Tell that to The Communist Bloc, who are the second (or third, haven't checked in a while) largest UCR and have never had the kind of adversarial military response that Nazis get.

As memory serves, NE had about 300 nations and a relatively small WA ratio immediately before the raid on GGR. Fast forward to today, and they have hit 626 nations, with well over 100 WA nations. That change is not a coincidence.

[ii Darth Maul ii]

A little amusing that this topic has now become a discussion about the effectiveness of stamps.

[ii Darth Maul ii]

Stamps are the easiest and main source of growth for all the largest regions.

If you throw enough money at it you get results. On occasion i've gotten stamps I get a really decent rate of return, and for NE I image their return is lower than the average region therefore the reason they spend hundreds of dollars. Gotta be a lot, I couldn't imagine wasting that much money lol.

A general statement about statistics does not hide the obvious. As the Fleet raids far right wing regions, the original nations head to the most prominent fascist region, Nazi Europa. I've tried my hand at stamps before, and it is absolutely ludicrous to attribute the exponential growth of a region to stamps. You are afraid to admit the other cause, and so you use stamps as an excuse.

Hi! Me again, since you seem to have missed my last post.

My region gained 230 nations in less than a month, using stamps. Totally possible for stamps to deliver that kind of exponential growth. Perhaps your recruitment telegram is just bad.

Perhaps I missed the stamp train. I used stamps for about several months around 2010 (not for my current region) and I saw a paltry return.

[Cormac Stark]

Perhaps I missed the stamp train. I used stamps for about several months around 2010 (not for my current region) and I saw a paltry return.

You used stamps years before they even existed?

[The Silver Sentinel]

Perhaps I missed the stamp train. I used stamps for about several months around 2010 (not for my current region) and I saw a paltry return.

Erm... Stamps didn't come around until 2014, so try again?

[ii Darth Maul ii]

Perhaps I missed the stamp train. I used stamps for about several months around 2010 (not for my current region) and I saw a paltry return.

You used stamps years before they even existed?

Perhaps I missed the stamp train. I used stamps for about several months around 2010 (not for my current region) and I saw a paltry return.

Erm... Stamps didn't come around until 2014, so try again?

Shoot, my mistake. I ceased to exist for about two years, so I have a poor recollection of what I did. I think I used an API client key. In that case, ignore anything I said previously about stamps.

[The Silver Sentinel]

You used stamps years before they even existed?

Erm... Stamps didn't come around until 2014, so try again?

Shoot, my mistake. I ceased to exist for about two years, so I have a poor recollection of what I did. I think I used an API client key. In that case, ignore anything I said previously about stamps.

You know, there are a lot of us that actually want TRF's commendation repealed, and you making inane comments like this is not helping the cause. If you care at all for this to pass, please just stop.

[ii Darth Maul ii]

Shoot, my mistake. I ceased to exist for about two years, so I have a poor recollection of what I did. I think I used an API client key. In that case, ignore anything I said previously about stamps.

You know, there are a lot of us that actually want TRF's commendation repealed, and you making inane comments like this is not helping the cause. If you care at all for this to pass, please just stop.

I am also one of those people, so don't talk down to me. I made a faux pas, but don't insult me when I have been making valid contributions to the resolution.

[Pulau Singapura]

Sorry for the lack of clarity when I said my earlier statement comparing TRF to IS. I was meaning to compare the two based on the fact that both have radical beliefs, and both destroy those who do not share their beliefs." Deanne says while eating some ice cream

[Nodin]

it will perhaps surprise you to learn that ForeStarnya gave up his commission back in 2013, shortly after La Pasionaria was deleted. he has not had a role in The Red Fleet since, so his three-year old opinion on what makes a valid target for The Red Fleet really doesn't apply here.

and in case people forget, Libertatem entered this whole game when they buddied up to GGR a few years ago. if they didn't know the world they were entering by trying to make friends with the fash, that's not really my problem. I'll happily raid them, REATO regions, and their friends until they're all dust.

Dust, eh? Such melodrama, lolol.

I know ForeStarnya isn't actively involved in TRF decision-making these days; however, I've seen no change in target policy. ForeStarnya's three-year-old opinion doesn't apply here, yet Libertatem's few years ago Nazi affiliation does? Imagine that.

I've received enough intel on North Korea's Communal Earth to believe he's former National Socialist League hardcore Nazi New Finnland who experienced an ideological sea change only after being shunned by Nazi gameplay. You won't cut Libertatem slack for forming a brief alliance that amounted to nothing a few years ago but are fine rubbing elbows with an NSL Nazi who is likely to flip-flop ideologically when crossed again?

You admit to targeting an anti-fascist libertarian organization for a dead-buried Nazi affiliation. If you hold Libertatem accountable for an alliance they've repeatedly denounced, then you can certainly manufacture an excuse to target just about anything.

TRF's WFE:

We oppose capitalism, fascism, and imperialism, and our forces stand guard for vulnerable regions on the Left when they are in need.

When do you suppose you might get around to revising the WFE to reflect commendable, all around good-guy TRF's new policy on what makes a valid target? Because TRF is a raider org. What I quoted is a valid target list.

nah, i'm pretty sure it's the hundreds of dollars you've poured into telegram stamps that have made NE the size that it is now.

I suppose I have to draw you a picture. Anti-fascist action in Hell created Captain Woodhouse late 2011. Packaging and selling Nazi gameplay to new NS members was impossible at that time. TGGR was a burlesque that only ever attracted a niche following; founderless NAZI EUROPE was in perpetual defense mode and had no military. I suggested moving to a new region with a founder soon as I came on board. NE core members—not one of them a Nazi or fascist—had an emotional attachment to old NE and were averse to relocation.

Any idiot could see NE was going under. Extreme anti-fascist action, i.e., Liberate NAZI EUROPE, was akin to a life preserver. A Repeal materialized only when a majority of anti-fascists rightly concluded the Liberation had served to empower a region they had hoped to easily eliminate. The plan was to return our password so we could go back to moldering behind it: another anti-fascist miscalculation that resulted in Nazi Europa.

I believe stamps materialized in '13. I didn’t take advantage of stamp recruitment while NE was liberated. A year later, safe in Nazi Europa, I still rejected it. I've only ever reacted in response to a new anti-fascist hurdle. I became committed to building a mega Nazi region in '15 when it was clear the Right could no longer boot the Left out of fascist-tagged regions like National Socialist Republic without a fight from your gameplay buddies. By itself, TRF was no threat. TRF hooking up with Gameplay to ensure we couldn’t defend our own territory was another story.

That said, it takes more than stamps to build a UCR—especially a Nazi named one. I think you and your echo here know that. If stamp-dumping alone could build a region, the second mega fascist project I mentioned a couple months ago would have materialized by now. The player appointed to oversee the project is having real life issues that are keeping him out of the game.

You can't deny that there are plenty of honest-to-god fascists and Nazis that inhabit your region.

If you do buy off on the notion that NE and TGGR are anything but insults to Nazism, TRF’s attempts to ‘fight’ that kind of Nazism have resulted in the formation of the largest Nazi region to ever exist in the game—to my knowledge. I can't seem to figure out how that's commendable.

I'm not denying anything. I've said this many times: three years ago, I couldn’t identify any Nazis or fascists in NE. Back then, the only thing Nazi about NE was the name. I certainly can't deny that plenty NE members claim to be honest-to-God fascists and Nazis in the here and now—including NE's military commander who received an email from GD when NE was liberated, asking him to return to the fold. We couldn't have done it without you and yours, buddy. Tell me again how commendable that is.

[The Stalker]

Sounds made up.

[Godless Monkey]

That's not how membership in any organization works. Godless Monkey is not and has never been a member of The Red Fleet.

Funny stuff coming from an individual who thinks everyone who participates in a right-wing coalition op is a ‘fash’. GM participates in update capacity with TRF and supports all TRF ops. Darth Maul is correct. For all intents and purposes GM is TRF.

Funny indeed. The blank faced and robotic manner in which you just.... say anything, regardless of reality. SO FUNNY!
But what does a nazi & a nazi sympathizer (being generous here) intentionally misrepresenting my non-TRF membership have to do with anything? I dunno.
I think this would be libel by now if I felt like this intentional misrepresentation of my organizational membership in anyway defamed me or hurt my reputation lol.

NE population grew? How shocking. Its almost as if large nazi regions have been destroyed and the sad nazis natives left to another region to consolidate themselves before splitting off again.
Consolidation of nazi refugees in one of the only(?) large nazi regions left on NS certainly = nazi population growth on NS. YEP
Tide comes in, tide goes out. How does that work? Can't be explained, can't be.

You know, there are a lot of us that actually want TRF's commendation repealed, and you making inane comments like this is not helping the cause. If you care at all for this to pass, please just stop.

I am also one of those people, so don't talk down to me. I made a faux pas, but don't insult me when I have been making valid contributions to the resolution.

If your valid contributions in any way helped to result in this resolution, I 100% support you continuing your important "valid contribution" work.
You do great work.

[Elke and Elba]

Can OP please submit this ASAP, and let us be done with this trite? It is hilarious how both parties try to make themselves look better than the other - which really says a lot about the mediocrity of either front, and your ideological spat insofar should not be rubbing the noses of other WA Nations like garlic; because no one needs to know about it.

[Misley]

Can OP please submit this ASAP, and let us be done with this trite? It is hilarious how both parties try to make themselves look better than the other - which really says a lot about the mediocrity of either front, and your ideological spat insofar should not be rubbing the noses of other WA Nations like garlic; because no one needs to know about it.

It was already submitted. It failed to reach quorum.