[DEFEATED] Repeal "Liberate The Mountains to the East"

[Walamzia]

I suppose the question comes down to whether the Mountains to the East has successfully re-established themselves, and is in a situation in which they can protect themselves. So, as I am still unfamiliar to this situation, I must inquire, is the governing body of The Mountains to the East in the hands of the natives? And are they in a position by which they can astutely defend themselves from attacks? If yes then an occupying force is not necessary in the least, for it is no longer a peace-keeping organization, but rather a new invading force masquerading under the title of "liberators." I do condemn anyone who is/has liberated said region, but if the two previously asked questions are answered with a "yes" then the time might have come for this to be repealed.

This is the key question here. I will await an answer before voting on this issue.

[LH God]

Familiarize yourselves with its history and why an occupational force is there at the moment before asking.

[Evermoney]

This seems not to be reaching Quorum. What is it anyway?

[LH God]

This seems not to be reaching Quorum. What is it anyway?

/sighs/

[Christmas Light Makers]

lol

[Rafargle]

With permission from Pladitunisia, and as one myself, I'm speaking on behalf of the natives of The Mountains to the East. We appreciate all the hard work Redsward has committed to helping us. However, we are eager to have the region secured as soon as possible. If Christmas Light Makers can guarantee our safety, and the return of the delegacy once the region is fully secure, we will support this repeal.

[Pladitunisia]

I completely support Refargle's opinion on this matter. I would reassume delegacy because I have the second highest number of endorsements to Christmas Light Makers. We just want our region back in our own hands. If this backfires than we haven't really lost anything because we never even had control to begin with.

[Rafargle]

If this backfires than we haven't really lost anything because we never even had control to begin with.

To clarify. He means that we currently have little control over the situation, apart from stating our opinion. If this backfires, we the risk of losing our home.

[Kleinekatzen]

In regards to the proposal:- I vote against.


Here's why I am doing so: - The proposer is no longer a WA member. I believe that a proposal should be struck from the floor if the one who proposes leaves the WA before it is passed as it show they did not propose in good faith.

[Rafargle]

In regards to the proposal:- I vote against.


Here's why I am doing so: - The proposer is no longer a WA member. I believe that a proposal should be struck from the floor if the one who proposes leaves the WA before it is passed as it show they did not propose in good faith.

You make a valid point. I will discuss this with the other natives, and reconsider our support.

[Evermoney]

In regards to the proposal:- I vote against.


Here's why I am doing so: - The proposer is no longer a WA member. I believe that a proposal should be struck from the floor if the one who proposes leaves the WA before it is passed as it show they did not propose in good faith.

I don't think it's a matter of lack of good faith. I don't know what would make the proposer leave WA, but the point of the proposal is still valid. I'm still voting FOR it.

[Krankor]

has served it's ultimate goal

Incorrect use of apostrophe. Against.

[Pladitunisia]

I want to tackle these nay sayers so if we can readress each issue one at a time I can answer some and maybe we can reach some consensus

[Redsward]

Voted AGAINST because of (1) the backstabbing and (2) SC #5 syndrome, which is basically poor grammar.

[Pladitunisia]

Voted AGAINST because of (1) the backstabbing and (2) SC #5 syndrome, which is basically poor grammar.

We will work with you redsward. What do you want. A commendation. An award? Power? We're fighting a losing battle here. We're so close to actually coming back from defeat of the black riders. I hardly know who to trust anymore and maybe it is a little rushed; still, if it's for the greater good...

[LH God]

I don't think it's a matter of lack of good faith. I don't know what would make the proposer leave WA, but the point of the proposal is still valid. I'm still voting FOR it.

We will work with you redsward. What do you want. A commendation. An award? Power? We're fighting a losing battle here. We're so close to actually coming back from defeat of the black riders. I hardly know who to trust anymore and maybe it is a little rushed; still, if it's for the greater good...

Look, Plady.
1. You will not retain those endos when they leave. It's to build up influence.
2. This is Chester's proposal.
3. You're going to lose the region when this thing's repealed.

Leave the liberation there. A proposal will not pass until the region's back into your hands. And once it is, and the repeal has passed, you'll have no choice other than password the region immediately. Else you're going to be invaded. Badly. And there won't be a server glitch to save you again. And what does that mean? Your region will fall into inactivity, and will die in the near future. Is that what you want? Or would you rather save yourselves and become a place to tag but never to permanently occupy and refound again?

[Chester Pearson]

2. This is Chester's proposal.

Really? I don't see my name on it, and just for the record, I voted against this on RR's forums, so take it as you will....

[LH God]

Really? I don't see my name on it, and just for the record, I voted against this on RR's forums, so take it as you will....

In all honesty, I don't care whose it is. That's what I read on the forums. I was bringing up that point because the "natives" were arguing about the other guy's proposal here.

[Redsward]

Voted AGAINST because of (1) the backstabbing and (2) SC #5 syndrome, which is basically poor grammar.

We will work with you redsward. What do you want. A commendation. An award? Power? We're fighting a losing battle here. We're so close to actually coming back from defeat of the black riders. I hardly know who to trust anymore and maybe it is a little rushed; still, if it's for the greater good...

The reason I hesitated to submit my draft was because of Sadko's presence. I was trying to make sure the raiders were completely out of the region. Do not lose hope, Plad. You're not losing, we're not losing. But unless the region is raider-free, we're never going to be safe. And that's why the repeal is being defeated, because of mistiming.

[Rafargle]

First off, I want to apologize. Against my advice, the natives were encouraged to support this particular repeal. In doing so, we've not only put ourselves at risk, but sparked an unwanted debate. In an effort to get the region back under our control, we rushed into an uncomfortable situation. I'm personally going to withdraw my support for this repeal. Things are too unstable for this to be a good idea right now. I extend my sincerest apologies to Redsward, and hope that he will continue to assist us.

[Drewlantis]

First off, I want to apologize. Against my advice, the natives were encouraged to support this particular repeal. In doing so, we've not only put ourselves at risk, but sparked an unwanted debate. In an effort to get the region back under our control, we rushed into an uncomfortable situation. I'm personally going to withdraw my support for this repeal. Things are too unstable for this to be a good idea right now. I extend my sincerest apologies to Redsward, and hope that he will continue to assist us.

And there's the answer. Although, I still believe that if the government was secure enough that this would warrant a repeal. I do not believe that a raider force could take it again if it was password protected and the WA delegate kicked out any remaining raiders. I think that the liberation force there is still a little bit of a concern, considering the fact that it is effectively their region. How about the WA delegate and government be chosen from the natives and supported by the liberators? That in effect should allow for the natives to retain basic control and independence and the liberation forces currently there will become defenders, like a foreign legion. I apologize if this has already been suggested or implemented and therefore apologize for the repetitiveness.

[Naginii]

I know: 1. "No! Why should we have to do this, it's our region!" 2. "It's not going to be the same!" 3. "Not everyone will move."

There have been more regions come and go since the game was first launched than you realize, and it's never, ever the end of the world. It's not even the beginning of the end of the world — it is, as the writer says, the "end of the beginning."

I've read the thread through, and the thing that the natives need to remember is that any region without an active founder is raider-defender bait. Truth is, there's really no difference between being invaded and being defended — people from outside your region are going to be coming-in and affecting the course of it's direction regardless of your attitude about it. You can lock-down the region with a password, but even that eventually fails because residents get tired of needing a key to get through the defenses, and it's not a longterm solve best suited to a democratically inclined populace.

I've been a resident of the same region since I came into the game in 2004, except it's had three incarnations during that time due to multiple founder CTEs/deets. For a long while, we natives protected it (before passwords) with a rotation of strong delegates, raider help and the banject button, until it was decided to move the region's population to a new similarly named region, with a founder. We let the old region CTE. Fast wind several years, and it was carefully and thoughtfully refounded under the present leadership, who has kept alive all of the traditions and personality of the old region, while adding new positions and attitudes and a new tone more aligned with the new trajectory of NS. My old region is still there, albeit under new management, but it's management that honors the old while projecting a new message.

The point is, you never actually "lose" in NS, you can just go and do something else. Sure, it's hard to watch something you helped create cease, but nothing lasts forever. Don't depend on others to protect you, because they wont always be able to and often any help you get will come at a price. NS isn't worth your handwringing over this region's future, and it's not worth your gametime living in a shell of a region out of misplaced loyalty or pride of the past. It's no fun, you're living in fear. Don't do it. You can always recreate and redefine yourself endlessly in NS.

[Redsward]

First off, I want to apologize. Against my advice, the natives were encouraged to support this particular repeal. In doing so, we've not only put ourselves at risk, but sparked an unwanted debate. In an effort to get the region back under our control, we rushed into an uncomfortable situation. I'm personally going to withdraw my support for this repeal. Things are too unstable for this to be a good idea right now. I extend my sincerest apologies to Redsward, and hope that he will continue to assist us.

I forgive you. I am still endorsing Zertaxia and Plad, so we should be fine from there.

[Redsward]

LOL, this just got defeated by over 5,000 votes. Even larger gap than "Liberate Versutian Federation."

[The Other Otter]

LOL, this just got defeated by over 5,000 votes. Even larger gap than "Liberate Versutian Federation."

Yours will fail just as bad if you don't get it together. -chuckles-