Household Crimes

[Holy Altmoran Empire]

I find it odd to see how this had caused such a mess...I may be somewhat lacking in the "Compassion" department but come on. Surely it's no one else's business? Unless they're oppressing women of other nations, but I would find it difficult to believe any woman would move to this place from a probably more benign regime.

Do chime in and give me your thoughts. I am genuinely curious about the subject matter.

[Qurmani Arabia]

Eating off a man's plate is called Tadnis Wajaba or "Defiling the Meal", (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)

Nobody is allowed to commit Tadnis Wajaba in public either.

[Purpelia]

I find it odd to see how this had caused such a mess...I may be somewhat lacking in the "Compassion" department but come on. Surely it's no one else's business? Unless they're oppressing women of other nations, but I would find it difficult to believe any woman would move to this place from a probably more benign regime.

Do chime in and give me your thoughts. I am genuinely curious about the subject matter.

That's basically the Purpelian stance as well. Countries have the right to do what ever they want to their own people. And if the people don't like it they can make a revolution. The fact that they don't means that they do like (or at least approve of) it and that thus it is not ours to judge.

Government practices are like sexual preference. Just because we find certain things icky don't mean we get to invade peoples bedrooms.

[Miarie]

Household Crimes or Manzil Tajawuzat
Eating off a man's plate is called Tadnis Wajaba or "Defiling the Meal", (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Eating while the husband is away is called Al-eabath al-ghidha' or "Food Tampering"(Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Engaging in conversation with a man who is not married (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Leaving the house without permission (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Nakedness/Uncovered before a bath or in front of a male is called Aljald Kashf or "Uncovered Skin",(Corporal punishment or 60 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Refusal of cooking meals and cleaning the house, (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Talking back to the male family member, (Corporal punishment or 40 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Washing or touching the clothes of the man, (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Calling a female/male on the phone, (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Reading to the children, (Corporal punishment or 10 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Refusal of praying, (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Answering the door for a man, (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Having male company around, (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Calling the husband's work/family/parents, (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Locking oneself out of the house, (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Watching TV, or listening to radio (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Failure of cooking food properly, (Corporal punishment or 45 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Sitting/Laying around the house, (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in solitary confinement or public humiliation for women only)
Reading the Quran or Religious Texts, (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Cleaning the rooms of a male, (Corporal punishment or 30 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Gardening and working outside, (Corporal punishment or 10 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)
Talking to the children, (Corporal punishment or 15 lashes and 15 days in solitary confinement or public humiliation for women only)
Eating first at mealtime, (Corporal punishment or 50 lashes and 25 days in solitary confinement with little food and water or public humiliation for women only)
Refusal to wash the dishes, (Corporal punishment or 10 lashes and 5 days in prison or public humiliation for women only)

This post reminds me, I need to "liquidate" my chemical weapon stockpile.

[Holy Altmoran Empire]

I find it odd to see how this had caused such a mess...I may be somewhat lacking in the "Compassion" department but come on. Surely it's no one else's business? Unless they're oppressing women of other nations, but I would find it difficult to believe any woman would move to this place from a probably more benign regime.

Do chime in and give me your thoughts. I am genuinely curious about the subject matter.

That's basically the Purpelian stance as well. Countries have the right to do whatever they want to their own people. And if the people don't like it they can make a revolution. The fact that they don't means that they do like (or at least approve of) it and that thus it is not ours to judge.

Government practices are like sexual preference. Just because we find certain things icky don't mean we get to invade people's bedrooms.

That's a very good way of putting it. I suppose by intervening, a nation would just make things worse since it can be concluded that these women do not know any other society and would be quite upset to have their world brought down by a group that would only serve to injure the innocent population (The men that follow these laws only because they know no other rhetoric) much more than those who actually perpetuate these Household Laws (Which I assume would be some sort of Islamic Bourgeoise). The whole judgement is a Normative one and would be best off left alone. Regimes such as these tend to be on rotation anyway.

Besides, even if one nation were to remove the al-Qurmani dynasty from power and install their own form of governance, the amount of resources required for both the Peacekeeping effort and the Rebuilding effort would be Outrageous. Home support for such a conflict would be difficult to garner without rigid Censorship or a specific mindset for the populace. Qurmani Arabia itself would be left in a power vacuum, and knowing how Islamic populations can get in one of those situations, it would just lead to more bloodshed, and if any "Liberator" tried their hand at direct administration, they would most likely find themselves the sole focus of hatred from the country they just destroyed. Then you end up in a predicament, not unlike the current situation in the middle east, whilst the rest of the world watches on, tutting at those who just tried to help.

[Chinese Peoples]

I find it odd to see how this had caused such a mess...I may be somewhat lacking in the "Compassion" department but come on. Surely it's no one else's business? Unless they're oppressing women of other nations, but I would find it difficult to believe any woman would move to this place from a probably more benign regime.

Do chime in and give me your thoughts. I am genuinely curious about the subject matter.

If it's posted, then it's clearly the world's business, laid before its cognizance and consideration.

[Holy Altmoran Empire]

I find it odd to see how this had caused such a mess...I may be somewhat lacking in the "Compassion" department but come on. Surely it's no one else's business? Unless they're oppressing women of other nations, but I would find it difficult to believe any woman would move to this place from a probably more benign regime.

Do chime in and give me your thoughts. I am genuinely curious about the subject matter.

If it's posted, then it's clearly the world's business, laid before its cognizance and consideration.

That opens it up to debate and discussion, I suppose. Yet the extent to which extreme measures have been taken seems very unnecessary. Whilst I can see the premise that anyone posting their National Happenings on here clearly wants attention for it, I just think (along with some others) that the degree to which people want to get involved is much beyond what I would define as their own business regarding the subject.

[Chinese Peoples]

If it's posted, then it's clearly the world's business, laid before its cognizance and consideration.

That opens it up to debate and discussion, I suppose. Yet the extent to which extreme measures have been taken seems very unnecessary. Whilst I can see the premise that anyone posting their National Happenings on here clearly wants attention for it, I just think (along with some others) that the degree to which people want to get involved is much beyond what I would define as their own business regarding the subject.

No country is an island unto itself. Not even Great Britain.

This being an IC forum, unless otherwise stated (and it is not so stated as far as I can see), the government desires and has captured international attention. We too are reaction in an IC capacity, even though these gnomes would be clearly unacceptable to many people OoC as well.

[Holy Altmoran Empire]

That opens it up to debate and discussion, I suppose. Yet the extent to which extreme measures have been taken seems very unnecessary. Whilst I can see the premise that anyone posting their National Happenings on here clearly wants attention for it, I just think (along with some others) that the degree to which people want to get involved is much beyond what I would define as their own business regarding the subject.

No country is an island unto itself. Not even Great Britain.

Why?...Or rather How?

[Chinese Peoples]

No country is an island unto itself. Not even Great Britain.

Why?...Or rather How?

You ain't an empire on which the sun never sets if you're just an island.

[Greater Byzanthia]

Official Communiqué on the behalf of the Greater Byzanthian Federal Government

"Ex nihilo ad sidera | From nothing to the stars"

---

From: Federal Ministry of Foreign Affairs

To: The International Community

---

Subject: To whomever it may concern,

Greater Byzanthia shall remain neutral during this issue. However, our nation has opened its doors for any refugees who feel that their safety is threatened. This offer shall be open for any sides of the conflict. Our nation shall not support any side of this this conflict, and we hope that this issue may be resolved in the near future.

---

Signed by:

- His Excellency, Prime Minister Charles Burgardt
- The Honorable Christoph Schroeter, Minister-President
- Oskar Warner, Minister of Foreign Affairs

[Holy Altmoran Empire]

Why?...Or rather How?

You ain't an empire on which the sun never sets if you're just an island.

Uhhh...Okay. I'm not quite sure on how that's relevant, but by that logic, you are not counting Imperially or Colonially acquired territories as part of an Empire. But an Empire is defined as "An extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state". The British Empire encompassed many other Nations through Protectorate status, Colonial Rule, Puppet States or Direct Administration in such a manner that would prove your statement to be incorrect.

[Massena]

I find it odd to see how this had caused such a mess...I may be somewhat lacking in the "Compassion" department but come on. Surely it's no one else's business? Unless they're oppressing women of other nations, but I would find it difficult to believe any woman would move to this place from a probably more benign regime.

Do chime in and give me your thoughts. I am genuinely curious about the subject matter.

The people of a given nation are not the property of that nation's government. If they are mistreated then it is the business of all people, everywhere, to protest, and if possible, to stop it.

National Sovereignty must never become a shield behind which barbarians may hide.

Signed by,
Secretary of State M. J. Tobin

[Holy Altmoran Empire]

I find it odd to see how this had caused such a mess...I may be somewhat lacking in the "Compassion" department but come on. Surely it's no one else's business? Unless they're oppressing women of other nations, but I would find it difficult to believe any woman would move to this place from a probably more benign regime.

Do chime in and give me your thoughts. I am genuinely curious about the subject matter.

The people of a given nation are not the property of that nation's government. If they are mistreated then it is the business of all people, everywhere, to protest, and if possible, to stop it.

National Sovereignty must never become a shield behind which barbarians may hide.

Signed by,
Secretary of State M. J. Tobin

But the al-Qurmani Regime still stands. The people of Qurmani Arabia do not seem to be discontent, evidenced by the lack of civil disobedience within their nation. Your statement is Normative. How do you know they're being mistreated? What if they like it that way? Just because your perspective shows oppression and "evil" doesn't mean the perspective of the "oppressed" is the same.

[Massena]

But the al-Qurmani Regime still stands. The people of Qurmani Arabia do not seem to be discontent, evidenced by the lack of civil disobedience within their nation. Your statement is Normative. How do you know they're being mistreated? What if they like it that way? Just because your perspective shows oppression and "evil" doesn't mean the perspective of the "oppressed" is the same.

That the regime still stands means little, save that they have sufficient force at their disposal to quash dissent for the time being. That the oppressed do not yet realize they are being oppressed because they do not know better is not an excuse to do nothing. Women and girls are being physically tortured and abused at the very slightest excuse.

If you do not wish to take action, that is your choice. Do not also engage in moral cowardice by attempting to justify oppression, and by extension, your inaction.

Further, let it be known that as of today, the Grand Republic of Massena is considering a naval blockade against the Qurmani state.

Signed by,
Secretary of State M. J. Tobin

[Holy Altmoran Empire]

But the al-Qurmani Regime still stands. The people of Qurmani Arabia do not seem to be discontent, evidenced by the lack of civil disobedience within their nation. Your statement is Normative. How do you know they're being mistreated? What if they like it that way? Just because your perspective shows oppression and "evil" doesn't mean the perspective of the "oppressed" is the same.

That the regime still stands means little, save that they have sufficient force at their disposal to quash dissent for the time being. That the oppressed do not yet realize they are being oppressed because they do not know better is not an excuse to do nothing. Women and girls are being physically tortured and abused at the very slightest excuse.

If you do not wish to take action, that is your choice. Do not also engage in moral cowardice by attempting to justify oppression, and by extension, your inaction.

Further, let it be known that as of today, the Grand Republic of Massena is considering a naval blockade against the Qurmani state.

Signed by,
Secretary of State M. J. Tobin

What if your Naval Blockade causes these very people you're trying to save instead starve? They are not "oppressing" women just because they can. Can you not infer that they do it because they wish to live pious lives? These women may very well adhere to this rather extreme form of Islam of their own volition, with the state only reinforcing this rhetoric through punishment for sinners. What right do you have to tear them from their lifestyle of choice? I will grant that not all of their women will have this mindset, yet that does not justify damaging an Entire nation to "save" just a portion of it. If a population cannot perceive oppression upon themselves then they cannot feel it. Oppression must be felt in order to be real. It's a construct of Psychology. Your perception of their oppression means you think they're being oppressed, it does not mean that they are in fact, being oppressed.

You may label my stance as "Moral Cowardice" if you wish. It doesn't change anything.

[Ndaku]

"As a nation in the struggle of preserving, protecting, and fighting for human rights for all humans to enjoy the Interplanetary Federation condemns these inhumane laws as they are oppressive, ludicrous, and delusional. If the king would like to see his homeland prosper, severe changes will have to be made, or else they will be forced to be made."
~President Unathi Serafim

[Eclius]

Hand over the oil fields or prepare for war Qurmani Arabia, for we are the apostles of freedom and liberation.

[Purpelia]

I suppose by intervening, ... argument that tries to justify it

That's not the point. These are intelligent, sane, consenting adults we are talking about. And they have a right to self determination. And if they use that right to determine something we do not approve of than we are to shut up for as long as it does not effect us out of a respect for that right.

The people of a given nation are not the property of that nation's government. If they are mistreated then it is the business of all people, everywhere, to protest, and if possible, to stop it.

National Sovereignty must never become a shield behind which barbarians may hide.

That is a horrible, corrosive and imperialist stance to take. And Purpelia is disgusted by it.

And lest you speak of not being warned. Our words are backed with atomic weapons. Probably more of them than is prudent in this economy. But like, that's the price of freedom.

[Eclius]

I suppose by intervening, ... argument that tries to justify it

That's not the point. These are intelligent, sane, consenting adults we are talking about. And they have a right to self determination. And if they use that right to determine something we do not approve of than we are to shut up for as long as it does not effect us out of a respect for that right.

How naive of you! Look at all that oil people who needs freedom! We have to put an end to their king's regime

[Purpelia]

That's not the point. These are intelligent, sane, consenting adults we are talking about. And they have a right to self determination. And if they use that right to determine something we do not approve of than we are to shut up for as long as it does not effect us out of a respect for that right.

How naive of you! Look at all that oil people who needs freedom! We have to put an end to their king's regime

Freedom is a tool that can be used for both happiness and sorrow. It is and should newer be a goal unto it self.

[Eclius]

How naive of you! Look at all that oil people who needs freedom! We have to put an end to their king's regime

Freedom is a tool that can be used for both happiness and sorrow. It is and should newer be a goal unto it self.

OOC: is this an OOC post or IC post?? 'Cause I can't tell

[Purpelia]

Freedom is a tool that can be used for both happiness and sorrow. It is and should newer be a goal unto it self.

OOC: is this an OOC post or IC post?? 'Cause I can't tell

In this particular case it's both. Purpelia and I don't personally often agree. But on this topic we do.

After all, who are we to go and tell a bunch of intelligent, sane adults what they are to do with their lives? After all, is not freedom also the freedom to murder, rape, pillage? Is freedom not the freedom to steal? And yet is not not the freedom to love as well? Too much freedom is not a good thing. So who are we to say our norms of it are the correct ones? Maybe they feel their norms work better for them. And if they do we should support that choice.

[Chinese Peoples]

You ain't an empire on which the sun never sets if you're just an island.

Uhhh...Okay. I'm not quite sure on how that's relevant, but by that logic, you are not counting Imperially or Colonially acquired territories as part of an Empire. But an Empire is defined as "An extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state". The British Empire encompassed many other Nations through Protectorate status, Colonial Rule, Puppet States or Direct Administration in such a manner that would prove your statement to be incorrect.

Do you maintain that Britain was an empire solely with the British Isles, by the personal union of the crowns of England and Scotland?

[Chinese Peoples]

OOC: is this an OOC post or IC post?? 'Cause I can't tell

In this particular case it's both. Purpelia and I don't personally often agree. But on this topic we do.

After all, who are we to go and tell a bunch of intelligent, sane adults what they are to do with their lives? After all, is not freedom also the freedom to murder, rape, pillage? Is freedom not the freedom to steal? And yet is not not the freedom to love as well? Too much freedom is not a good thing. So who are we to say our norms of it are the correct ones? Maybe they feel their norms work better for them. And if they do we should support that choice.

This government feels no compulsion to support that choice. In fact, we feel the compulsion to oppose it, since it increases the government's domestic popularity ratings.