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Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO FUN] Mark IX

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The Akasha Colony
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Postby The Akasha Colony » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:03 pm

Taihei Tengoku wrote:The Viet Minh fought against an advanced mechanized force with complete air superiority and came out the better. Fighter aircraft don't necessarily have an easier time picking apart anti-air installations, SEAD/Wild Weasel is a specialized, perishable, and highly risky skill and just having a jet fighter doesn't mean it'll be suppressed. Until that's done they will have to fly low and won't be able to efficiently plink from medium altitudes.


Given that the high-altitude IADS had to have been nonexistent, reliably suppressed, or destroyed for the air drop to occur in the first place, medium-altitude attacks are almost certainly the best option for the supporting attack aircraft. Low-altitude attacks would suffer from much higher levels of attrition as they have essentially every time they've been tried. Suppressing the short-range air defense is less a matter of dedicated SEAD aircraft and more a matter of having enough strike aircraft on hand to continue to suppress targets as they are spotted.

The comparison to Egypt and Vietnam does work--all he needs is a few days to break up and annihilate the paratroops.


Which he says he isn't doing because those troops have hostages and are entrenched.
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Husseinarti
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Postby Husseinarti » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:05 pm

Taihei Tengoku wrote:
Husseinarti wrote:
Wouldn't the lack of armor on the M60 and the lack of pen of the 105mm be an issue than the fcs and stuff?

105 is perfectly good for the sides and the weak lower glacis of the Challenger 2, and have you heard about our lord and savior M900?


M900 is unsafe to load into the breech of the M68s the M60s use iirc.
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Husseinarti
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Postby Husseinarti » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:06 pm

Taihei Tengoku wrote:The Viet Minh fought against an advanced mechanized force with complete air superiority and came out the better.


No the NVA did.

The NVA fought the ARVN in pitched battles and won.
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Dostanuot Loj
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Postby Dostanuot Loj » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:50 pm

Husseinarti wrote:
Taihei Tengoku wrote:105 is perfectly good for the sides and the weak lower glacis of the Challenger 2, and have you heard about our lord and savior M900?


M900 is unsafe to load into the breech of the M68s the M60s use iirc.


I wasn't even assuming he had access to M900 because of this.

Yo your original question, the disparity is not that great. Especially if you just need to delay. You don't even need KE munitions to achieve this.
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Spirit of Hope
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Founded: Feb 21, 2011
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:45 pm

Taihei Tengoku wrote:The Viet Minh fought against an advanced mechanized force with complete air superiority and came out the better. Fighter aircraft don't necessarily have an easier time picking apart anti-air installations, SEAD/Wild Weasel is a specialized, perishable, and highly risky skill and just having a jet fighter doesn't mean it'll be suppressed. Until that's done they will have to fly low and won't be able to efficiently plink from medium altitudes.

The comparison to Egypt and Vietnam does work--all he needs is a few days to break up and annihilate the paratroops.

Honestly citing Vietnam doesn't work here. The US used a lot of air mobile and airborne forces and near constantly came out the better for it, as already noted there are a number of examples where US forces resupplied through aircraft while carrying out heavy fighting against superior numbers.

Given details we have been given this isn't day 1 of the war, it is some time after that, it is very possible that the attacking force has already significantly degraded air defense operations. In fact that there is a large paratrooper force in the rear area is an indication of the strength of the damage the air defense network may have taken.

Light infantry well dug in with strong air support, which is what we have been indicated is the situation, are a very tough nut to crack. Plus they apparently have hostages. Especially if you don't have a strong combined arms force. Which is also what has been partially indicated.

Honestly my biggest hang up is why it is taking 4 days for the relief force to make it to the area of operations if there aren't any other forces in the way. They should easily be able to cross 1,000 miles in that time.
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Kassaran
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Postby Kassaran » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:56 pm

Spirit of Hope wrote:Given details we have been given this isn't day 1 of the war, it is some time after that, it is very possible that the attacking force has already significantly degraded air defense operations. In fact that there is a large paratrooper force in the rear area is an indication of the strength of the damage the air defense network may have taken.
The Air defense network appears nonexistent in this theatre from what I read, yes.

Light infantry well dug in with strong air support, which is what we have been indicated is the situation, are a very tough nut to crack. Plus they apparently have hostages. Especially if you don't have a strong combined arms force. Which is also what has been partially indicated.
Where did you read the part about hostages, they simply have dug into a forest IIRC, he's got 20,000 militia and a few hundred Pattons for them. He's just not pushing his advantage because he lacks air support and the enemy, while not using air support, is using artillery.

Honestly my biggest hang up is why it is taking 4 days for the relief force to make it to the area of operations if there aren't any other forces in the way. They should easily be able to cross 1,000 miles in that time.

No details as to the extent of the operations nor the geography has been given, thus I'm stuck in the same boat as you on this.
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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:02 pm

Kassaran wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:Given details we have been given this isn't day 1 of the war, it is some time after that, it is very possible that the attacking force has already significantly degraded air defense operations. In fact that there is a large paratrooper force in the rear area is an indication of the strength of the damage the air defense network may have taken.
The Air defense network appears nonexistent in this theatre from what I read, yes.

Light infantry well dug in with strong air support, which is what we have been indicated is the situation, are a very tough nut to crack. Plus they apparently have hostages. Especially if you don't have a strong combined arms force. Which is also what has been partially indicated.
Where did you read the part about hostages, they simply have dug into a forest IIRC, he's got 20,000 militia and a few hundred Pattons for them. He's just not pushing his advantage because he lacks air support and the enemy, while not using air support, is using artillery.

Honestly my biggest hang up is why it is taking 4 days for the relief force to make it to the area of operations if there aren't any other forces in the way. They should easily be able to cross 1,000 miles in that time.

No details as to the extent of the operations nor the geography has been given, thus I'm stuck in the same boat as you on this.


He gives most of the details here:
Eldslandet wrote:Basically all enemy air-support is being used to keep forces away from a group of surrounded paratroopers which the Challengers are advancing towards and we don't have any air-support cause it was blown-up on the runway on day one. The Challengers are expected to reach them in 4 days. We tried using tanks to get the paratroopers but for a multitude of reasons that failed as they have hostages they want and are too well dug-in so we have elected to starve them out and try and stop the Challengers. Most of the terrain is similar to that of southern Syria and looks a bit like this. #

Its going to be happening during the day.

Noting earlier that the relieving force is 300 Challenger 2's, 300 Warrior knock offs, plus infantry, and 30 2S19 Msta. We don't know the specifics of paratroopers, but dug in infantry with strong air support aren't an easy thing to budge.
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The Akasha Colony
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Postby The Akasha Colony » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:10 pm

Kassaran wrote:Where did you read the part about hostages, they simply have dug into a forest IIRC, he's got 20,000 militia and a few hundred Pattons for them. He's just not pushing his advantage because he lacks air support and the enemy, while not using air support, is using artillery.


This is against the relieving force, not against the paratroopers. No information has been given on the forces opposing the paratroopers, but this is where practically all of the enemy's air power is devoted.
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Germania Rayet
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Founded: Jun 27, 2016
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Postby Germania Rayet » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:02 am

Schnell Jagdpanzer SchKl Aureole
Picture
2 Aureole s/i Tank Destroyers in combat

Type: Tank Destroyer

Variant:
Aureole/75
Aureole/88
Aureole s/i (Similar with Aureole/88)
Aureole s (Similar with Aureole/88)

Length: 9.592 m

Width: 2.906 m

Height: 1.729 m

Weight: 37 t

Speed: 60 km/h (Average)

Armament:
Aureole/75 :
> 7.5 cm StuK37/L24
> 7.92 mm MG34

Aureole/88 :
> 8.8 cm /L100
> 7.92 mm MG34

Armor:
> Turret : 130/30/25
> Hull : 80/25/30
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Ardavia
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Founded: Jun 05, 2013
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Postby Ardavia » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:51 am

Germania Rayet wrote:
Schnell Jagdpanzer SchKl Aureole
Picture
2 Aureole s/i Tank Destroyers in combat

Type: Tank Destroyer

Variant:
Aureole/75
Aureole/88
Aureole s/i (Similar with Aureole/88)
Aureole s (Similar with Aureole/88)

Length: 9.592 m

Width: 2.906 m

Height: 1.729 m

Weight: 37 t

Speed: 60 km/h (Average)

Armament:
Aureole/75 :
> 7.5 cm StuK37/L24
> 7.92 mm MG34

Aureole/88 :
> 8.8 cm /L100
> 7.92 mm MG34

Armor:
> Turret : 130/30/25
> Hull : 80/25/30


why do you have turret armour thickness listed for a casemate tank destroyer?

if the art is accurate (looking at the side profile in the picture) and it's ~9 meters long, the tank is about three meters tall, not 173cm

the way the mantlet is drawn doesn't look like there's a lot of space for the gun to traverse or elevate/depress
Last edited by Ardavia on Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Germania Rayet
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Founded: Jun 27, 2016
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Postby Germania Rayet » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:53 am

Ardavia wrote:
Germania Rayet wrote:
Schnell Jagdpanzer SchKl Aureole
Picture
2 Aureole s/i Tank Destroyers in combat

Type: Tank Destroyer

Variant:
Aureole/75
Aureole/88
Aureole s/i (Similar with Aureole/88)
Aureole s (Similar with Aureole/88)

Length: 9.592 m

Width: 2.906 m

Height: 1.729 m

Weight: 37 t

Speed: 60 km/h (Average)

Armament:
Aureole/75 :
> 7.5 cm StuK37/L24
> 7.92 mm MG34

Aureole/88 :
> 8.8 cm /L100
> 7.92 mm MG34

Armor:
> Turret : 130/30/25
> Hull : 80/25/30


why do you have turret armour thickness listed for a casemate tank destroyer?

if the art is accurate (looking at the side profile in the picture) and it's ~9 meters long, the tank is about three meters tall, not 173cm

the way the mantlet is drawn doesn't look like there's a lot of space for the gun to traverse or elevate/depress


Fixed*
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Imperializt Russia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2011
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:00 am

Eldslandet wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:There is no formula for this, though the situation certainly isn't in your favor. The Challenger 2 is overall better than the M60A3, with a heavier main gun, heavier and better armor, and better electronics.

I would ask what infantry support and other vehicles both sides have available.

The Challengers 2 have 300 supporting Warrior equivalents 2 Milan's on them and carry 8 troops that are basically 1990's british army soldiers. The M60A3s have around 29,000 militia that are a sort of cross between the PKK and the Fedayeen with lots of motivation, bullets, AT weapons but lack training.

Unless you can lure them into some majestically laid-out trap, you're getting slaughtered.

You're taking on more Challenger 2s than the British Army currently has, so that's like three tank regiments (full regiments, not British "regiments" of tanks, that is) and a couple battalions of mechanised infantry.

Motivation without training is peculiar. If they're motivated, then there's great incentive to train them. Motivation gets you to face overwhelming odds, but it doesn't get you using tanks, AT assets effectively. That's what training does.
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Omarios
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Founded: Apr 11, 2013
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Postby Omarios » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:58 pm

Just finished this, it is for my puppet nation (which I am yet to create), Bawdon.

Image
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New Antonalia
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Founded: Jan 06, 2016
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Postby New Antonalia » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:17 am

Can anyone link me a tutorial on road wheels in MS Paint? I'm redesigning a chassis for one of my tanks and the road wheels are proving to be a huge pain in the ass.
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Omarios
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Postby Omarios » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:50 am

New Antonalia wrote:Can anyone link me a tutorial on road wheels in MS Paint? I'm redesigning a chassis for one of my tanks and the road wheels are proving to be a huge pain in the ass.

https://s31.postimg.org/eliw5ioyj/c7hs.png

I use these, they're premade but do the job really well. I use Paint.net and use whatever I need from it.

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Last edited by Omarios on Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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New Antonalia
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Postby New Antonalia » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:00 am

Omarios wrote:
New Antonalia wrote:Can anyone link me a tutorial on road wheels in MS Paint? I'm redesigning a chassis for one of my tanks and the road wheels are proving to be a huge pain in the ass.

https://s31.postimg.org/eliw5ioyj/c7hs.png

I use these, they're premade but do the job really well. I use Paint.net and use whatever I need from it.

Credits to Risen Britannia and Novorden

Thanks
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The United Universe
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Founded: Jun 20, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The United Universe » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:04 am

The military of The Federation of The United Universe uses the TFTUU 11 advanced battle tank with the TFTUU 7 armed support vehicle.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Founded: Jun 28, 2011
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:08 am

The United Universe wrote:The military of The Federation of The United Universe uses the TFTUU 11 advanced battle tank with the TFTUU 7 armed support vehicle.

K and? :P
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Novorden
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Postby Novorden » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:08 pm

Image
Update of a WIP i haven't touched in about 4 months.


I should probably redo this at somepoint.
Last edited by Novorden on Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Omarios
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Founded: Apr 11, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Omarios » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:38 am

Made this out of boredom.

Image
Danceria wrote:Erm...*Inches away from them*

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Imperializt Russia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2011
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:49 am

Novorden wrote:(Image)
Update of a WIP i haven't touched in about 4 months.


I should probably redo this at somepoint.

Unmanned turret? Or is it just super low-profile?
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Dostanuot Loj
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Founded: Nov 04, 2004
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Postby Dostanuot Loj » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:37 am

Korva wrote:(Image)


Padnaking hard right now.
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Korva
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Founded: Apr 22, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Korva » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:01 am

Kinda related to that, is there merit to having say one IFV per mechanized platoon mount something like a 76 or 90mm for fire support? Originally I'd considered pairing a mortar/autocannon but Kyiv explained why that would be suboptimal/redundant.

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Dostanuot Loj
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Founded: Nov 04, 2004
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Postby Dostanuot Loj » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:14 am

Korva wrote:Kinda related to that, is there merit to having say one IFV per mechanized platoon mount something like a 76 or 90mm for fire support? Originally I'd considered pairing a mortar/autocannon but Kyiv explained why that would be suboptimal/redundant.


I actually already do this with my non-tank supported units. So yes, there is merit.
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