NATION

PASSWORD

NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Type 08

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Arthurista
Minister
 
Posts: 2312
Founded: Sep 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Arthurista » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:34 am

Palakistan wrote:Lol. He was drunk with a gun! Well my premise is, an unarmed citizenry is a vulnerable citizenry. The government, either foreign or domestic could control the populace. I for one want to protect th people from my government, and from any foreign government.


See what I said about localised culture versus universal truth. This whole guns vs government thing is a uniquely American mindset which I find rather fascinating. Not entirely sure you can find anything similar elsewhere in the world. Nor do I know of anywhere else in the developed world which has a similar level of cultural obsession with guns, or veneration of guns, even if firearms are perfectly legally available.


Back on topic before this post gets deleted for being irrelevant - how should field fortifications adapt to the emergence of precision-guided artillery? Current practice seems to be focused on making infantry strongpoints shrapnel proof and so forth, but ordinary overhead cover doesn't seem to be very resistant towards, say, a 120mm Strix laser-guided mortar bomb, let alone an Excalibur.

I assume one potential adaptation is to, say, dig four to five camouflaged position for a GPMG, have it fire for a few minutes from one then disappear and move onto the next before clocks in on its position and drops a PG shell on it. Presumably, this trick would be more difficult with HMGs or AGLs due to their weight, but doable?

User avatar
Elan Valleys
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1780
Founded: Aug 15, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Elan Valleys » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:58 am

Realistically, the enemy will run out of PGMs after a few days so will keep them for important targets.

If not, THis may be useful.
I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult. But the age of chivalry is gone. That of sophisters, economists, and calculators has succeeded; and the glory of Europe is extinguished for ever.

User avatar
Questers
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13867
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Questers » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:09 am

I don't think, in a Big War, people will fire PGMs at bunkers. They're not THAT accurate, and they're meant to be used against whole mechanised formations detected by JSTARS etc, or something similar.
Restore the Crown

User avatar
Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54847
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:17 am

Elan Valleys wrote:Realistically, the enemy will run out of PGMs after a few days so will keep them for important targets.

If not, THis may be useful.

We all do love that man.
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

User avatar
Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65551
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:59 am

Image

Then again there are only so many ways to make a hole. :p
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

User avatar
Algieristan
Secretary
 
Posts: 31
Founded: Jun 25, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Algieristan » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:03 am

Is there much purpose to upgrading tanks like the T-62?

they're so old and they weren't all that good to begin with so I don't really think its worth the money, but on the flip side my nation has mountains of them just sitting around rusting in depots and I'd like to expand my military to include a full armored division in each of my military districts
☆ May God Be With You ☆

User avatar
The Empire of Pretantia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39273
Founded: Oct 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:10 am

Algieristan wrote:Is there much purpose to upgrading tanks like the T-62?

they're so old and they weren't all that good to begin with so I don't really think its worth the money, but on the flip side my nation has mountains of them just sitting around rusting in depots and I'd like to expand my military to include a full armored division in each of my military districts

Updating them with more modern components makes them more viable, and even if they're so ancient they're still more useful than no tanks. If you can't make modern tanks because of resource, manpower, or infrastructure restrictions, then you should put those piles to work.
ywn be as good as this video
Gacha
Trashing other people's waifus
Anti-NN
EA
Douche flutes
Zimbabwe
Putting the toilet paper roll the wrong way
Every single square inch of Asia
Lewding Earth-chan
Pollution
4Chan in all its glory and all its horror
Playing the little Switch controller handheld thing in public
Treading on me
Socialism, Communism, Anarchism, and all their cousins and sisters and brothers and wife's sons
Alternate Universe 40K
Nightcore
Comcast
Zimbabwe
Believing the Ottomans were the third Roman Empire
Parodies of the Gadsden flag
The Fate Series
US politics

User avatar
Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25545
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:12 am

Questers wrote:I don't think, in a Big War, people will fire PGMs at bunkers. They're not THAT accurate, and they're meant to be used against whole mechanised formations detected by JSTARS etc, or something similar.


You would use ATGW or sth like Javelins I guess.

PGMs would engage all types of targets, tanks would be engaged by howitzers firing SADARM though. In the Falklands the Royal Marines engaged bunkers with PGMs, but that's a highly pedantic definition since Milan isn't really thought of as a PGM despite fulfilling criteria.

User avatar
Spirit of Hope
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12469
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:14 am

Algieristan wrote:Is there much purpose to upgrading tanks like the T-62?

they're so old and they weren't all that good to begin with so I don't really think its worth the money, but on the flip side my nation has mountains of them just sitting around rusting in depots and I'd like to expand my military to include a full armored division in each of my military districts


Depends on existing equipment, the upgrades, who you are planning on fighting, and resources available. In a perfect world you want all of your units to have the most up to date equipment possible, however that is extremely costly.

Upgrading your existing tanks to the top of the line equipment may be just as costly, and would not match the performance of new tanks and other equipment.

However if you can't afford the new equipment, or don't want to pay the high cost, and are not planning to fight someone where you need that capability you are in luck. For example you probably don't need the M1A1 and F-22's if you are only worried about your neighbor who is also stuck with outdated equipment. Sure it would be nice to have them, but they are expensive and not easy to get.

You could carry out limited upgrades, GPS, data links, communications, upgrades to ERA, better auto loaders, etc. Get the upgrades that improve the capabilities that you need improved.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

User avatar
Palakistan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1306
Founded: May 20, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Palakistan » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:27 pm

So how many M777 howitzers would you recommend? I need the capability to do a sustained bombardment across a small ocean/small sea possibly. What kind of howitzer would you recommend for city bombardment? I needs to be able to go across bodies of water. FYI money is no problem here.
My stats are frozen at 10%
I annoy lots of people with my views. Sorry abou' that.

Your worst In Character enemy should be your best Out Of Character friend.
- to you who said that: genius!

User avatar
Questers
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13867
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Questers » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:51 pm

there's literally NO such thing as not enough artillery.
Restore the Crown

User avatar
Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25545
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:53 pm

Palakistan wrote:So how many M777 howitzers would you recommend? I need the capability to do a sustained bombardment across a small ocean/small sea possibly. What kind of howitzer would you recommend for city bombardment? I needs to be able to go across bodies of water. FYI money is no problem here.


For what purpose?

This is like asking "How many apples do I need?". Is it a howitzer battalion? Battery? DIVARTY or brigade? Corps?

Questers wrote:there's literally NO such thing as not enough artillery.


Questers defeated when it runs out of six billion USD of ammunition in thirty seconds from all its howitzers.
Last edited by Gallia- on Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Totulga
Envoy
 
Posts: 284
Founded: May 30, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Totulga » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:54 pm

Gallia- wrote:
Palakistan wrote:So how many M777 howitzers would you recommend? I need the capability to do a sustained bombardment across a small ocean/small sea possibly. What kind of howitzer would you recommend for city bombardment? I needs to be able to go across bodies of water. FYI money is no problem here.


For what purpose?

This is like asking "How many apples do I need?". Is it a howitzer battalion? Battery? DIVARTY or brigade? Corps?

Questers wrote:there's literally NO such thing as not enough artillery.


Questers defeated when it runs out of six billion USD of ammunition in thirty seconds from all its howitzers.

Actually it is an artillery branch. It has its own recruitment adds and everything.

User avatar
Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54847
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:56 pm

This is a peculiar question that I for one don't entirely understand.

You seem to want to be able to deploy an artillery unit to a foreign country.
So you ship out the artillery unit and whatever guns it has. You don't suddenly re-equip it for the task, that's ludicrous, unless it's part of an existing modernisation programme that happens to coincide with the offensive. Which is still probably bad for familiarisation issues.

If you want mobile guns, you want helicopter-mobile guns. This is where the M777 (155mm) and L118 (105mm) guns come in. Sling them under a transport helicopter, carry the crew and some ammo aboard too. Though helicopter-mobile guns just allow you to move guns around rapidly. It doesn't constitute its own deployment.
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

User avatar
Palakistan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1306
Founded: May 20, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Palakistan » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:07 pm

Gallia- wrote:
Palakistan wrote:So how many M777 howitzers would you recommend? I need the capability to do a sustained bombardment across a small ocean/small sea possibly. What kind of howitzer would you recommend for city bombardment? I needs to be able to go across bodies of water. FYI money is no problem here.


For what purpose?

This is like asking "How many apples do I need?". Is it a howitzer battalion? Battery? DIVARTY or brigade? Corps?

Questers wrote:there's literally NO such thing as not enough artillery.


Questers defeated when it runs out of six billion USD of ammunition in thirty seconds from all its howitzers.
Howitzer battalion. My battalions are about 1,000 men each. So it is actually called a artillery battalion.
My stats are frozen at 10%
I annoy lots of people with my views. Sorry abou' that.

Your worst In Character enemy should be your best Out Of Character friend.
- to you who said that: genius!

User avatar
Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25545
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:14 pm

Palakistan wrote:
Gallia- wrote:
For what purpose?

This is like asking "How many apples do I need?". Is it a howitzer battalion? Battery? DIVARTY or brigade? Corps?



Questers defeated when it runs out of six billion USD of ammunition in thirty seconds from all its howitzers.
Howitzer battalion. My battalions are about 1,000 men each. So it is actually called a artillery battalion.


12-27

User avatar
Palakistan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1306
Founded: May 20, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Palakistan » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:17 pm

Actually I have a better question. How many Merkava M4 tanks can my armored battalion of 1000 men handle? FYI that is all they are managing.
My stats are frozen at 10%
I annoy lots of people with my views. Sorry abou' that.

Your worst In Character enemy should be your best Out Of Character friend.
- to you who said that: genius!

User avatar
Totulga
Envoy
 
Posts: 284
Founded: May 30, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Totulga » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:25 pm

Palakistan wrote:Actually I have a better question. How many Merkava M4 tanks can my armored battalion of 1000 men handle? FYI that is all they are managing.


You could have 250 tanks with 1000 men. You would have 0 functioning tanks however because you lack any logistics, maintaince, prime movers, recover vehicles, ect. Even if you did attach units to perform these duties they would have a terrible turn around time and poor performance.

User avatar
Questers
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13867
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Questers » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:27 pm

Palakistan wrote:Actually I have a better question. How many Merkava M4 tanks can my armored battalion of 1000 men handle? FYI that is all they are managing.
A British tank regiment of about 650 men can manage 58 tanks and 8 scout vehicles. A Soviet tank battalion of about 350 can handle between 31 and 41 tanks: it's some where between 7-10 men per tank. The British unit has a LOT more organic support though, in terms of maintenance, ambulances, and command and liaison and recce vehicles.
Last edited by Questers on Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Restore the Crown

User avatar
Crookfur
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10829
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Crookfur » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:35 pm

Palakistan wrote:Actually I have a better question. How many Merkava M4 tanks can my armored battalion of 1000 men handle? FYI that is all they are managing.


Thats generally not how things would work normally. Generally you come up with a number of tanks based on the organisation of the unit and then work out roughly how many personnel you need.

Honestly i can't really come up with a workable tank formation for 1000 personnel things just get too complicated in terms of numbers of sub units. if you were to go with a full square battalion (4 companies of 4 platoons each of 4 tanks) you would have 74 tanks and maybe about 800men depending on what support assets are included. For example the roughly 600 man 56 tank british armoured regiment also includes recce and support squadrons(companies):

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0019.html

if you are going with a square battalion you might not want the recce unit.
Last edited by Crookfur on Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Kingdom of Crookfur
Your ordinary everyday scotiodanavian freedom loving utopia!

And yes I do like big old guns, why do you ask?

User avatar
Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25545
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:53 pm

Palakistan wrote:Actually I have a better question. How many Merkava M4 tanks can my armored battalion of 1000 men handle? FYI that is all they are managing.


Between 30-60 is the going rate for armoured battalions IRL AFAIK.

User avatar
Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25545
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:22 pm

Crookfur wrote:
Palakistan wrote:Actually I have a better question. How many Merkava M4 tanks can my armored battalion of 1000 men handle? FYI that is all they are managing.


Thats generally not how things would work nromally. Generally you come up with a number of tanks based on the organisation of the unit and then work out roughly howmany personnel you need.

Honestly i can't rerally come up with a workable tank formation for 1000 personnel thigns just get too complciated in terms of number sof sub units. if you were to go with a full square battalion (4 companies of 4 paltoosn each of 4 tanks) you would have 74 tanks and maybe about 800men despending on what support assets are included. For example the roughly 600 man 56 tank british armoured regiment also includes recce and support squadrons(companies):

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0019.html

if you are going with a square battalion you might not want the recce unit.


squares

Image

User avatar
Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54847
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:29 pm

Gallia- wrote:
Crookfur wrote:
Thats generally not how things would work nromally. Generally you come up with a number of tanks based on the organisation of the unit and then work out roughly howmany personnel you need.

Honestly i can't rerally come up with a workable tank formation for 1000 personnel thigns just get too complciated in terms of number sof sub units. if you were to go with a full square battalion (4 companies of 4 paltoosn each of 4 tanks) you would have 74 tanks and maybe about 800men despending on what support assets are included. For example the roughly 600 man 56 tank british armoured regiment also includes recce and support squadrons(companies):

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0019.html

if you are going with a square battalion you might not want the recce unit.


squares

Image

What is the diagram meant to show?
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

User avatar
Crookfur
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10829
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Crookfur » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:32 pm

That squares are not as strong as triangles and tend to collapse.
The Kingdom of Crookfur
Your ordinary everyday scotiodanavian freedom loving utopia!

And yes I do like big old guns, why do you ask?

User avatar
Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54847
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:34 pm

What exactly prevents the unit at the tip of the triangle's "point" from being exploited and collapsed in the same manner as the front two units of a square formation being collapsed?
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Factbooks and National Information

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: -Terrapacis-

Advertisement

Remove ads