NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Type 08

[Totulga]

My father just got back from a war game down in New Jersy, around Fort Dix.

It would seem that even as the spending goes down, the Army Reserve are still just as retarded as the cops can be.

I'm scared about how the rest of the groups of people who hold guns, if they are like the cops or reserve.

The supply chain broke down during the exercise almost daily, there was also a lot of infighting and bullshit going on. People were also likely smuggling ammo to sell it, a lot of belt ammo is missing.

I think it was like 4000 rounds at least.

Makes you like he idea of a 40k style commissar.

[Crookfur]

I'm sure police training in the US also covers "how not to be a racist asshole", but sadly it seems to fail worrying numbers of officers, on an institutional and not personal basis.

If they're up against some guy with a Glock who mag-dumps, that person won't hit the cop either. A shootout is over in three rounds, or it isn't over.

Also, don't we have an SAS-style unit to counter terrorist threats? I though we called it the SAS.

Ah but the SAS have to be requested by the PM IIRC (or at least somebody on Cobra) and if the met have thier own unit they can likly roll it on a cheif super's go ahead.

[Crookfur]

I'm sure police training in the US also covers "how not to be a racist asshole", but sadly it seems to fail worrying numbers of officers, on an institutional and not personal basis.

If they're up against some guy with a Glock who mag-dumps, that person won't hit the cop either. A shootout is over in three rounds, or it isn't over.

Also, don't we have an SAS-style unit to counter terrorist threats? I though we called it the SAS.

There is trianing and there is trianing.

Training in Skills actually works particulalry when it focuses on drills and repetition.

Power point mandatory tick the box compliance training is at best an ass cover for the organisation porviding it and at worst brings no benefit to anyone (well appart from the person who gets cushy "diversity compliance manager" job). You can't train someone not to be racist, well OK you can but it won't happen in a class room you have to go out and actively interact with good and bad folks directly to learn that "peoples is peoples". Saddly the massive us vs them scenario that can develope due to decades (centuries) of issues in certain areas really makes any chance of that stupidly remote.

[Arthurista]

I'm sure police training in the US also covers "how not to be a racist asshole", but sadly it seems to fail worrying numbers of officers, on an institutional and not personal basis.

If they're up against some guy with a Glock who mag-dumps, that person won't hit the cop either. A shootout is over in three rounds, or it isn't over.

Also, don't we have an SAS-style unit to counter terrorist threats? I though we called it the SAS.

The issue in the states is that you can have small departments without the budget to train officers properly. They also go through paramilitary style academies. This forum is full of metaphors about 'warrior mentality' and you get the impression of a real 'us v them' attitude.

I assume the SAS is busy in sandy places and that the response time from Hereford is too long.

Isn't that sort of thing handled by the CO19 these days, or whatever they're calling that unit now?

[Elan Valleys]

The issue in the states is that you can have small departments without the budget to train officers properly. They also go through paramilitary style academies. This forum is full of metaphors about 'warrior mentality' and you get the impression of a real 'us v them' attitude.

I assume the SAS is busy in sandy places and that the response time from Hereford is too long.

Isn't that sort of thing handled by the CO19 these days, or whatever they're calling that unit now?

This seems to be a step up from CO19. Or a renaming. Who knows.

[The Kievan People]

People don't identify with or empathize as much with people of other races. This is just life. You can train people to suppress their gut feelings. But they always remain.

But it isn't the issue. The USA's problem with police shootings is basically unique in the developed world. It's racial diversity is not.

[Crookfur]

Isn't that sort of thing handled by the CO19 these days, or whatever they're calling that unit now?

This seems to be a step up from CO19. Or a renaming. Who knows.

Some sites seem to indicate that the new CTSFO's are part of SCO19 and it really just looks like a rebranding of the existing SFO's.

[Allanea]

I don't think that the problem of US police is with the models of pistols they hold.

I have seen Dutch police also carry Glock pistols, and Glock pistols are also used by Israeli police, but we rarely have the sort of issues with police shootings America seems to have.

That said, frankly I think that the regular police officer in the street should not be armed, or if armed should be only armed in a limited fashion.

[The Kievan People]

That said, frankly I think that the regular police officer in the street should not be armed, or if armed should be only armed in a limited fashion.

In most developed countries, yes. In East Asia, yes.

In America, noooooo.

[Elan Valleys]

America's fetishisation of the armed citizen means that sending police out unarmed is basically painting a huge fluorescent target on them.

[Allanea]

America's fetishisation of the armed citizen means that sending police out unarmed is basically painting a huge fluorescent target on them.

Is this borne out by actual stats? Police being shot to death is ludicrously rare.

Also, the UK has had virtually no gun laws before 1920 and didn't have armed police.

[Padnak]

Police in Padnak are unarmed, save for billy clubs and those sorts of things

[Gallia-]

The UK is also an island.

The United States shares a tremendous and sparsely populated border with a failed state, which trafficks tremendous quantities of illegal firearms and drugs from South America.

[Arthurista]

That said, frankly I think that the regular police officer in the street should not be armed, or if armed should be only armed in a limited fashion.

In most developed countries, yes. In East Asia, yes.

In America, noooooo.

Not quite universally true in East Asia. In Hong Kong uniformed police officers on street patrol carry S&W .38 revolvers.

[Korva]

Police in Padnak are unarmed, save for billy clubs and those sorts of things

I don't believe you.

[Padnak]

Police in Padnak are unarmed, save for billy clubs and those sorts of things

I don't believe you.

Well

Most of the time they're unarmed

I have the military, various governor militias and the paramilitary MSS-A if armed police are needed

And those guys on the right guard the drug fields lol

[Inyourfaceistan]

Police in Padnak are unarmed, save for billy clubs and those sorts of things

Police in Inyursta are armed with submachine guns and M14's.

Of course the average citizen also carries around AR-15's and semi-automatic AKM clones (retired, reservist and active-duty soldiers are allowed to keep automatic M4's and AK-74/103 clones) to help keep away Le Plagua Rouje and drug traffickers...
But mostly just Le Plagua Rouje...

[Allanea]

Allanean police carry pistols (the exact model of the pistol differs by jurisdiction) and rubber batons, unless emergencies are declared (urban rioting, for example).

[Padnak]

Despite how many guns are floating around in Padnak, civilian ownership of firearms is extremely restricted so its not very likely that officers in peaceful areas of the country will encounter situations where they need to shoot it out with someone

In areas of the country with active anti-government insurgencies, non-state sanctioned drug operations, militias and pirates most of the police work is done by the MSS-A and the army

[Imperializt Russia]

The UK is also an island.

The United States shares a tremendous and sparsely populated border with a failed state, which trafficks tremendous quantities of illegal firearms and drugs from South America.

Drugs yes, firearms less.

Mexico alone is full of rusty AKMs and RPG-7 launchers that clearly didn't come from the US, not to mention smuggling operations in the opposite direction where "legally"-purchased firearms went over the border into Mexico.
American straw purchases have even propped up gun smuggling operations into the UK. In one instance, a security contractor was caught smuggling about 80 Glocks into the UK, with street value approx £3000 each. No-one knows how long he'd been doing it, but IIRC it's known that some firearms he had smuggled have been used in high-profile shootings.

[The Kievan People]

Not quite universally true in East Asia. In Hong Kong uniformed police officers on street patrol carry S&W .38 revolvers.

Emphasis on *should*

[Gallia-]

The UK is also an island.

The United States shares a tremendous and sparsely populated border with a failed state, which trafficks tremendous quantities of illegal firearms and drugs from South America.

Drugs yes, firearms less.

Mexico alone is full of rusty AKMs and RPG-7 launchers that clearly didn't come from the US, not to mention smuggling operations in the opposite direction where "legally"-purchased firearms went over the border into Mexico.
American straw purchases have even propped up gun smuggling operations into the UK. In one instance, a security contractor was caught smuggling about 80 Glocks into the UK, with street value approx £3000 each. No-one knows how long he'd been doing it, but IIRC it's known that some firearms he had smuggled have been used in high-profile shootings.

wow 80 pistols

clearly a highly porous border with the united states perhaps the uk should just build a wall around the island

[The Akasha Colony]

America's fetishisation of the armed citizen means that sending police out unarmed is basically painting a huge fluorescent target on them.

Is this borne out by actual stats? Police being shot to death is ludicrously rare.

In 2014 50 officers were shot to death, up from 32 in 2013. This is out of a total of 117 total officer deaths in 2014 and 107 in 2013. Shootings are actually the number one cause of officer deaths in the US, followed by traffic fatalities. The two causes collectively account for over 2/3rds of total officer fatalities. Fifteen officers were killed in ambushes, up from five in 2013.

This is compared to 623 persons killed by police in 2014 and 336 in 2013.

Also, the UK has had virtually no gun laws before 1920 and didn't have armed police.

How many guns were in circulation relative to the population before those gun laws were implemented? Just because there was a time when the UK didn't have such strict gun laws doesn't mean that firearm ownership rates were similar between the US and UK.

[Bears Armed]

Also, the UK has had virtually no gun laws before 1920 and didn't have armed police.

How many guns were in circulation relative to the population before those gun laws were implemented? Just because there was a time when the UK didn't have such strict gun laws doesn't mean that firearm ownership rates were similar between the US and UK.

The number of handguns around had increased significantly after WW1, due to veterans retaining "souvenirs". It was the increasing use of those weapons in armed robbery then, in at least some cases by unemployed veterans, that led to the strengthening of gun laws.

[Imperializt Russia]

Drugs yes, firearms less.

Mexico alone is full of rusty AKMs and RPG-7 launchers that clearly didn't come from the US, not to mention smuggling operations in the opposite direction where "legally"-purchased firearms went over the border into Mexico.
American straw purchases have even propped up gun smuggling operations into the UK. In one instance, a security contractor was caught smuggling about 80 Glocks into the UK, with street value approx £3000 each. No-one knows how long he'd been doing it, but IIRC it's known that some firearms he had smuggled have been used in high-profile shootings.

wow 80 pistols

clearly a highly porous border with the united states perhaps the uk should just build a wall around the island

Handguns are completely banned in Britain.
Eighty was what he was caught with on the last smuggling run he did.