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Animal experimentation

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Sidhae
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Founded: Sep 27, 2011
Ex-Nation

Animal experimentation

Postby Sidhae » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:46 am

What is your national stance regarding animal experimentation?

---

Animals are rarely used for experimentation in the Imperium, not so much out of ethical as practical concerns. Advanced simulations run by powerful quantum computers can accurately simulate practically all biological and biochemical processes, making the use of living creatures unnecessary.

When it comes to practically testing more sinister inventions like weapons, let's just say there is no shortage of human and alien prisoners and slaves, against whom those inventions are meant to be used anyway...
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Pavonistade
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Pavonistade » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:08 am

Animal testing is prevalent in our nation. Testing on animal is just as common as testing on humans (criminals only), and its mainly for developing new medical technologies and medicines such as skin regeneration technology and faster anti-clotting medicines.
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Purpelia
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Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:27 am

Animal testing is very common in Purpelia and is the main form of testing anything. After all it's just animals. Why waste time, effort and resources running simulations or doing calculations when you can just stick a needle in one and see what happens?
Last edited by Purpelia on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Victorious Decepticons
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Corporate Police State

Postby Victorious Decepticons » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:14 pm

We consider animal experimentation to be a completely obsolete method for determining anything. All using live animals does is make it so the scientist has to deal with feces, urine, and carcasses. Animals also allow unexpected variables to enter into the experiment. Variables like "did the lab tech pet this one and ignore this other one" have surprisingly important effects on some experiments.

Purpelia wrote:Animal testing is very common in Purpelia and is the main form of testing anything. After all it's just animals. Why waste time, effort and resources running simulations or doing calculations when you can just stick a needle in one and see what happens?

Because a simulation can show exactly what happens. Direct experimentation makes it hard or impossible to account for the millions of chemical reactions that may be taking place under the surface. Some of those reactions can be seen through an electron microscope, but the problem is that the dissection required to get the sample may kill the animal - and once it's dead, most of the reactions cease. Sims can be observed at any level of resolution and they keep going as long as needed.

Another bonus is that, if you have your species' DNA fully decoded, you don't have to try to port results from some other species. Animals often react differently to things than humans, for example, and this causes many false starts when what worked on them turns out to be ineffective in humans.

Needless to say, we use advanced simulation and calculation to do these kinds of experiments. We can figure out the results of pretty much any chemical or procedure as long as we have the DNA of the target species.

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New Vudnia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby New Vudnia » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:56 pm

Animal experimentation is allowed, as long as cruelty is kept to a minimum.

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United Timelines Outpost Number 99999999
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Corporate Police State

Postby United Timelines Outpost Number 99999999 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:58 pm

We will either use animals cloned for the purpose of being tested, death row inmates, or the above mentioned quantum computers if they become available. The problem is that animals are grown for specific experiments, and that takes quite a while. Quantum computers are on short supply, and they are more likely to be used for particle or quantum physics experiments. Inmates, however, are in better supply. There's a reason why they are called "D-Class Personnel" by most people.
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The Viking Fjord
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Corporate Police State

Postby The Viking Fjord » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:00 pm

Without animal testing, our national animal would cease to exist. As a result, we test on animals as well as the unprivileged children living in the Orphan Districts.
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Democratic Koyro
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Democratic Koyro » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:18 pm

Why use animals for experimentation when we can use the Prison Camp workers?
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The Legion of War
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Postby The Legion of War » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:28 pm

Animal testing is allowed. Humans have dominated their planets, and as such we are too important to experiment upon ourselves.
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The Tavan Race
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Tavan Race » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:30 pm

As the point of an experiment is to determine what would happen in reality, as opposed to what would happen in a simulation you designed, we cannot see the logic in experimenting with unknown substances and technologies in virtual reality. Accepting the results of a computer over results in real life seems foolhardy to us, and kind of defeats the whole purpose of experimenting, but to each their own, we guess. Simulations can be useful, but experimentation is not, we believe, one of their primary uses, and if you go into a war with weaponry that works on your computer but that you've never properly tested, be prepared to be mocked excessively by your enemies when that device that "worked perfectly, in theory" proceeds to not work at all, or worse, backfires on you.

Regarding animal experimentation, specifically, we cannot see the point of this, either. If some biological agent needs to be tested for efficacy, it makes much more sense to test it on the species it was designed for, rather than an imperfect substitute. There is no reason we know of that an agent designed to affect humans should not be tested on humans, and the same goes for any species.
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Ryaanistan
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Founded: Dec 29, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Ryaanistan » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:44 pm

Animal experimentation is legal if the animal's death outweighs the the amount of people that can benefit (aka: The Utilitarian argument), but we won't let people experiment on animals unless they are dead for their own personal quest for knowledge.
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Enatai
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Founded: Aug 11, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Enatai » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:55 pm

This was (though no longer is, but I'll get to that) a serious issue of contention among Enataians, who hold both science and harmony with nature in very high regards. Historically, animal testing did happen, although usually only in serious cases, such as testing cures for very serious diseases and pandemics; most testing of, say, cosmetic products was done on human volunteers (the poor bastards) who were required by law to sign consent forms and waivers making it expressly clear that they were taking certain risks in return for financial compensation, but animal testing for medical research continued for many years. Ultimately it was one of the (although not the only) issues that really pushed what is now known in Enatai as the Great Genetic Revolution, where a large chunk of national resources went towards genetic, biological, biochemical, and biotechnical research. The result was and to some extent still is a golden age of both research and practical developments in these and related fields. The issue of animal experimentation is now thankfully a moot point; living systems with much of the same properties can be designed and implemented without the ability to experience pain or suffering or even the ability to consciously experience anything at all, although nowadays even these semi-living dummies (somewhat controversially dubbed 'golems' in the media) are being used less and less as more advanced computer modeling continues to emerge which allows for testing and even some instances of full research to take place entirely virtually, although on supercomputers originally designed to be basically a virtual chem lab.
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Grand Britannia
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Grand Britannia » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:40 pm

We use both animals and prisoners on death row.
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Auzkhia
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Capitalizt

Postby Auzkhia » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:50 pm

Purpelia wrote:Animal testing is very common in Purpelia and is the main form of testing anything. After all it's just animals. Why waste time, effort and resources running simulations or doing calculations when you can just stick a needle in one and see what happens?

^This.
Although if it involves sapient beings there must be consent.
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Postby Eaischpnaeieacgkque Bhcieaghpodsttditf » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:44 pm

We experiment on willing people.
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Mystletainn
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Mystletainn » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:29 pm

Animal testing is legal as long as it is considered humane by the Ministry of Environment.
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Saurisisia
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Saurisisia » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:50 pm

Purpelia wrote:Animal testing is very common in Purpelia and is the main form of testing anything. After all it's just animals. Why waste time, effort and resources running simulations or doing calculations when you can just stick a needle in one and see what happens?

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Hyskigland
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Ex-Nation

Postby Hyskigland » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:32 pm

A federal statute abolishing almost all forms of animal testing was passed by our Alþiŋ nearly forty years ago. When a resolution extending basic human rights to all sentient creatures was ratified twelve years ago, all laboratories which still tested on animals were forced to change their practices or to shut down.
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Reckhozistan
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Ex-Nation

Postby Reckhozistan » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:42 am

We use criminals who are unable to work for our nation for experiments.
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Nationalist Tantalus
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Postby Nationalist Tantalus » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:56 am

Sidhae wrote:When it comes to practically testing more sinister inventions like weapons, let's just say there is no shortage of human and alien prisoners and slaves, against whom those inventions are meant to be used anyway...


Stay away from our planets, buddy, and we might get along just fine...

We use cloned sheep, macaques, goats... (Insert relevant animal of choice) ... etcetera etcetera, as sorts of practice targets for our unmodified Terran stocks of anthrax, brucella, and Fr. tularensis when we need to analyze the effects an alien atmosphere might have on our surrogates before we may run simulations of biological weapons deployment within an alien world's atmosphere. Otherwise, though, we either (Rarely) use Death Row inmates or fully-immersive VR simulators to establish LD50s, ppm's, etc. for our pharmaceutical industries.
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Novus Niciae
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus Niciae » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:03 am

It is permitted if there is no other viable way to perform the experiment and the expected result of the experiment is of critical importance.

But this seldom is necessary since we have incredibly powerful computers that can simulate most things to an amazing degree of accuracy.
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Purpelia
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Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:04 am

Victorious Decepticons wrote:Because a simulation can show exactly what happens. Direct experimentation makes it hard or impossible to account for the millions of chemical reactions that may be taking place under the surface. Some of those reactions can be seen through an electron microscope, but the problem is that the dissection required to get the sample may kill the animal - and once it's dead, most of the reactions cease. Sims can be observed at any level of resolution and they keep going as long as needed.

Or you can just use statistics and increase your sample size to what ever you need. It's not like animals are costly. And when you are done you can always just sell what ever is left to the fur and meat industry. Or necro-zoofiles.

Another bonus is that, if you have your species' DNA fully decoded, you don't have to try to port results from some other species. Animals often react differently to things than humans, for example, and this causes many false starts when what worked on them turns out to be ineffective in humans.

Use monkeys. Or with your level of tech just clone up test subjects.
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Atsurion
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Founded: Jan 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Atsurion » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:27 am

Animal experimentation is taboo (especially for more extreme cases) but legal. It's fair enough to say that we've had our own batch of mad scientists, but the government doesn't believe that it is its duty to put a stop to this.

It is a good cause of rumors and dark stories for the people, however.

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Lorethia
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Postby Lorethia » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:41 am

Animal Experimentation? SHEESH.That's So Newbie.

Human Experimentation? Now' were talking.

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Theopanias
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Theopanias » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:34 am

Animal testing for medicines is present in Theopanias. Geneal animal abuse is HIGHLY condemmed in Theopanias, but in the case of testing medicines, it is seen as a necessary evil as the options are either test on animals or test on humans first. Chemicals are scrutinized beforehand and are expected to be fairly safe before they are tested on animals.

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