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Crookfur
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Founded: Antiquity
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crookfur » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:11 pm

Radictistan wrote:Okay, I didn't realize how well HE worked against tanks besides taking out optics. Can anyone answer another question for me. I really need more area AAW for my navy. I want some kind of Guided Missile Destroyer so I don't end up having to send a Slava or Kirov into a situation where such a large and expensive platform isn't needed. Right now I'm thinking of taking the Chinese Type 051C Destroyer and swapping out some weapon systems to preserve commonality. How hard would it be to replace the Chinese CIWS with Kashtan modules or even the AK-630M?


Simpliest solution would be to just claim that your version of Type 730 actually uses a GSh-6-30/AO-18 derived gun.

Other wise AK630M woudl fit although you migth might face issues with where the off mount radar would go. Kashtan is proabably out due to size and weight issues.
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Radictistan
Minister
 
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Founded: Nov 21, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Radictistan » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:09 pm

I was thinking that was probably the case, but I couldn't find weight or deck coverage data of the 730 for comparison.

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The Germania Alliance
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Founded: Oct 18, 2011
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby The Germania Alliance » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:27 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:What would you say is the smallest object I could fit a head up display on? Could I put one on a pair of goggles? If so, how much info could I cram into it? I'm mainly looking into NAVpoints and the ability to see friendly and hostile troops. Kind of like what the Land Warrior system was going for but executed in a feasible manor.

Never mind. Just found these beauties.


I'm not entirely sure you can do something like that with ballistic goggles. I could be wrong, I never got to play with tech like that.
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Nirvash Type TheEND
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:33 pm

The Germania Alliance wrote:
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:What would you say is the smallest object I could fit a head up display on? Could I put one on a pair of goggles? If so, how much info could I cram into it? I'm mainly looking into NAVpoints and the ability to see friendly and hostile troops. Kind of like what the Land Warrior system was going for but executed in a feasible manor.

Never mind. Just found these beauties.


I'm not entirely sure you can do something like that with ballistic goggles. I could be wrong, I never got to play with tech like that.

Well it's not exactly true HUD. It's a microscreen in the goggles, and it does almost everything I need it to. Let me go find the demo video.

And this is just civilian tech. Imagine what the military's R&D could do with this.
Last edited by Nirvash Type TheEND on Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Soviet Technocracy
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Founded: Dec 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Soviet Technocracy » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:35 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:
The Germania Alliance wrote:
I'm not entirely sure you can do something like that with ballistic goggles. I could be wrong, I never got to play with tech like that.

Well it's not exactly true HUD. It's a microscreen in the goggles, and it does almost everything I need it to. Let me go find the demo video.

And this is just civilian tech. Imagine what the military's R&D could do with this.


Land Warrior has a similar goggle system, although it is mounted on the helmet.
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The Germania Alliance
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby The Germania Alliance » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:40 pm

Ah, okay. I thought you meant like a HUD, which I could imagine would get in the way.
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Nirvash Type TheEND
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:44 pm

The Germania Alliance wrote:Ah, okay. I thought you meant like a HUD, which I could imagine would get in the way.

I was originally hoping for a HUD. But it would only show a few things. NAVpoints, friendly positions, NATO symbols, etc, etc.
6666th post. Hail super Satan.

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Jagalonia
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Founded: Jun 22, 2010
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Postby Jagalonia » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:50 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:
The Germania Alliance wrote:Ah, okay. I thought you meant like a HUD, which I could imagine would get in the way.

I was originally hoping for a HUD. But it would only show a few things. NAVpoints, friendly positions, NATO symbols, etc, etc.

That's actualy really interesting....I heard about something like that being done in the states, I don't think anything ever came of it. They were basicaly trying to put a targeting reticle in your goggles (Among other things), so you could accurately fire from the hip, or around corners.
Tokyoni wrote:Hitler's mustache looks weird. Adam Smith was a drunken fatass. There, I've just pwned fascism and capitalism by such "logic".
Edlichbury wrote:OOC: If Knootoss can claim alcohol is a biological weapon, I can claim sentient Milk-People.
Senestrum wrote:Russians took the maximum allowable missile performances from the ABM treaty as design goals.
lolz ensued
Ifreann wrote:
Computer Land wrote:I don't want someone hacking my fridge :meh:

fridge.setTempC(100);
sysout("I'm melting! I'm meeeeelting! Oh what a world, what world!");
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Nirvash Type TheEND
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:51 pm

Jagalonia wrote:
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:I was originally hoping for a HUD. But it would only show a few things. NAVpoints, friendly positions, NATO symbols, etc, etc.

That's actualy really interesting....I heard about something like that being done in the states, I don't think anything ever came of it. They were basicaly trying to put a targeting reticle in your goggles (Among other things), so you could accurately fire from the hip, or around corners.

Reticles always seemed redundant to me.
6666th post. Hail super Satan.

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Jagalonia
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Postby Jagalonia » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:52 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:
Jagalonia wrote:That's actualy really interesting....I heard about something like that being done in the states, I don't think anything ever came of it. They were basicaly trying to put a targeting reticle in your goggles (Among other things), so you could accurately fire from the hip, or around corners.

Reticles always seemed redundant to me.

When you're looking through the sight, yes.
Tokyoni wrote:Hitler's mustache looks weird. Adam Smith was a drunken fatass. There, I've just pwned fascism and capitalism by such "logic".
Edlichbury wrote:OOC: If Knootoss can claim alcohol is a biological weapon, I can claim sentient Milk-People.
Senestrum wrote:Russians took the maximum allowable missile performances from the ABM treaty as design goals.
lolz ensued
Ifreann wrote:
Computer Land wrote:I don't want someone hacking my fridge :meh:

fridge.setTempC(100);
sysout("I'm melting! I'm meeeeelting! Oh what a world, what world!");
I'm Amish...Problem?
Unsigable. >.>
I am a Magnificent Titan who likes to Devour Heroes
All tech.

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The Soviet Technocracy
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Founded: Dec 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Soviet Technocracy » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:53 pm

Jagalonia wrote:
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:I was originally hoping for a HUD. But it would only show a few things. NAVpoints, friendly positions, NATO symbols, etc, etc.

That's actualy really interesting....I heard about something like that being done in the states, I don't think anything ever came of it. They were basicaly trying to put a targeting reticle in your goggles (Among other things), so you could accurately fire from the hip, or around corners.


Land Warrior featured some of this. I know it had the camera, and a thermal weapon sight and GPS. FELIN, too. Not sure about IdZ. LW was deployed in Iraq w/ 4th Stryker for combat trials. So far there's been no public word on whether it was successful or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Warrior
Last edited by The Soviet Technocracy on Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The UK in Exile
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Posts: 11134
Founded: Jul 27, 2006
Anarchy

Postby The UK in Exile » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:53 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:
The Germania Alliance wrote:Ah, okay. I thought you meant like a HUD, which I could imagine would get in the way.

I was originally hoping for a HUD. But it would only show a few things. NAVpoints, friendly positions, NATO symbols, etc, etc.


battle tweets, US field manual (wiki edition), foebook, flakr, USMCtube, deviant ARTy.....
"We fought for the public good and would have enfranchised the people and secured the welfare of the whole groaning creation, if the nation had not more delighted in servitude than in freedom"

"My actions are as noble as my thoughts, That never relish’d of a base descent.I came unto your court for honour’s cause, And not to be a rebel to her state; And he that otherwise accounts of me, This sword shall prove he’s honour’s enemy."

"Wählte Ungnade, wo Gehorsam nicht Ehre brachte."
DEFCON 0 - not at war
DEFCON 1 - at war "go to red alert!" "are you absolutely sure sir? it does mean changing the lightbulb."

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Nirvash Type TheEND
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:02 pm

The UK in Exile wrote:
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:I was originally hoping for a HUD. But it would only show a few things. NAVpoints, friendly positions, NATO symbols, etc, etc.


battle tweets, US field manual (wiki edition), foebook, flakr, USMCtube, deviant ARTy.....

Why am I picking up very subtle sarcasm vibes from this post...
6666th post. Hail super Satan.

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Jagalonia
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Founded: Jun 22, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jagalonia » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:06 pm

The Soviet Technocracy wrote:
Jagalonia wrote:That's actualy really interesting....I heard about something like that being done in the states, I don't think anything ever came of it. They were basicaly trying to put a targeting reticle in your goggles (Among other things), so you could accurately fire from the hip, or around corners.


Land Warrior featured some of this. I know it had the camera, and a thermal weapon sight and GPS. FELIN, too. Not sure about IdZ. LW was deployed in Iraq w/ 4th Stryker for combat trials. So far there's been no public word on whether it was successful or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Warrior

yeah, i just googled it, the tech seems pretty behind. From what I'm reading, the map lags, horribly, and the camera seems like a cheap knock-off.
Tokyoni wrote:Hitler's mustache looks weird. Adam Smith was a drunken fatass. There, I've just pwned fascism and capitalism by such "logic".
Edlichbury wrote:OOC: If Knootoss can claim alcohol is a biological weapon, I can claim sentient Milk-People.
Senestrum wrote:Russians took the maximum allowable missile performances from the ABM treaty as design goals.
lolz ensued
Ifreann wrote:
Computer Land wrote:I don't want someone hacking my fridge :meh:

fridge.setTempC(100);
sysout("I'm melting! I'm meeeeelting! Oh what a world, what world!");
I'm Amish...Problem?
Unsigable. >.>
I am a Magnificent Titan who likes to Devour Heroes
All tech.

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Jagalonia
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Founded: Jun 22, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jagalonia » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:07 pm

The UK in Exile wrote:
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:I was originally hoping for a HUD. But it would only show a few things. NAVpoints, friendly positions, NATO symbols, etc, etc.


battle tweets, US field manual (wiki edition), foebook, flakr, USMCtube, deviant ARTy.....

I love it. I shall employ all of these in my military immediately! :P
Tokyoni wrote:Hitler's mustache looks weird. Adam Smith was a drunken fatass. There, I've just pwned fascism and capitalism by such "logic".
Edlichbury wrote:OOC: If Knootoss can claim alcohol is a biological weapon, I can claim sentient Milk-People.
Senestrum wrote:Russians took the maximum allowable missile performances from the ABM treaty as design goals.
lolz ensued
Ifreann wrote:
Computer Land wrote:I don't want someone hacking my fridge :meh:

fridge.setTempC(100);
sysout("I'm melting! I'm meeeeelting! Oh what a world, what world!");
I'm Amish...Problem?
Unsigable. >.>
I am a Magnificent Titan who likes to Devour Heroes
All tech.

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The UK in Exile
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Posts: 11134
Founded: Jul 27, 2006
Anarchy

Postby The UK in Exile » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:09 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:
The UK in Exile wrote:
battle tweets, US field manual (wiki edition), foebook, flakr, USMCtube, deviant ARTy.....

Why am I picking up very subtle sarcasm vibes from this post...


not really, theres some genuinely interesting stuff that could be done by applying modern internet concepts to battlefield tactics and doctrine development. one of the major criticisms of armies is that they always prepare for the last war, that they are slow to learn, slow to respond. the US I think is already trying out a wiki format with some field manuals. Imagine if you could make a facebook style group of a village you were patrolling (foebook). you stop someone, he gives you a name, you know what he looks like, you know who he associates with etc. deviant arty was little tongue in cheek, I admit :p .

flakr would be pictures of stuff to be ID'd, planes seen overhead, vehicles, strange weapons, odd ammo.
Last edited by The UK in Exile on Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"We fought for the public good and would have enfranchised the people and secured the welfare of the whole groaning creation, if the nation had not more delighted in servitude than in freedom"

"My actions are as noble as my thoughts, That never relish’d of a base descent.I came unto your court for honour’s cause, And not to be a rebel to her state; And he that otherwise accounts of me, This sword shall prove he’s honour’s enemy."

"Wählte Ungnade, wo Gehorsam nicht Ehre brachte."
DEFCON 0 - not at war
DEFCON 1 - at war "go to red alert!" "are you absolutely sure sir? it does mean changing the lightbulb."

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Samozaryadnyastan
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Founded: Mar 08, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:13 pm

I'm considering a prototype AI that will be stationed at (to begin with) military facilities for registering purposes.
It'd basically be how the AIs act in Halo: Contact Harvest - the AI Mack uses his avatar to chat to evacuees whilst simultaneously using cameras in the room to scan their faces and thus register them.

If I could do this, I would then intend on moving it up to 'seized cities', for checkpoints within the local area, capable of identifying people who would technically be interned there for the same purpose.
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Santheres
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Anarchy

Postby Santheres » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:35 pm

Samozaryadnyastan wrote:I'm considering a prototype AI that will be stationed at (to begin with) military facilities for registering purposes.
It'd basically be how the AIs act in Halo: Contact Harvest - the AI Mack uses his avatar to chat to evacuees whilst simultaneously using cameras in the room to scan their faces and thus register them.

If I could do this, I would then intend on moving it up to 'seized cities', for checkpoints within the local area, capable of identifying people who would technically be interned there for the same purpose.


Perfectly reasonable for something post-MT.
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Allanea
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Postby Allanea » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:23 pm

Kouralia wrote:Erm, for those who've seen all three: are these positions right?



If I'm right, I found them in 14 seconds, I timed it.



Two out of three right. I think you may have even spotted a third firing point - but not the one that I speak of. Which is far closer.

Note that in the real world, the positions were supported with 120mm mortar fire.

:D
Last edited by Allanea on Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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StarArmy
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Postby StarArmy » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:01 am

Image

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Senestrum
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Postby Senestrum » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:20 am

You appear to have found a shadow.

Allanea wrote:
Kouralia wrote:Erm, for those who've seen all three: are these positions right?



If I'm right, I found them in 14 seconds, I timed it.



Two out of three right. I think you may have even spotted a third firing point - but not the one that I speak of. Which is far closer.

Note that in the real world, the positions were supported with 120mm mortar fire.

:D


That third thing he circled was the turret of a derelict AFV.

I should know, I was looking at the original pretty damned closely. :p
Last edited by Senestrum on Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Purpelia
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Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:33 am

Speaking of FT HUD's what do you think would be a reasonable amount of info to display on them. This is what I thought:

Top left: Currently selected ammo type and count (don't ask, my guns are weird). Also, currently selected fire mode (newer hurts to know your gun is NOT yet on full auto when you are about to storm a room)

Top Right: Sensor display.
A radar like circle with a zoom function and range 4 subdivision lines + outer border. The display can be zoomed in or out to the fallowing settings:
1) Lines every 50m, circle range 250m
2) Lines every 100m, circle range 500m
3) Lines every 150m, circle range 750m
4) Lines every 200m (only really useful for commanders and maybe mortar teams), circle range 1000m

The display shows friendly forces as green dots decreasing friendly fire. It also links to a sound based sniper finder (one of those things that detect where an enemy is firing from) and displays these positions with red dots. And if someone is using his radio to communicate with you it flashes him to make you see exactly who is the one. Also, commanders can designate target locations for their troops (and especially friendly mortar teams) to see. I was also thinking of tying it into a motion tracker Alien style to track any movement in the vicinity, classify it based on the intensity and mark anything big that is moving but is not unidentified as a friendly as a hostile automatically. Also, when enemy fire is detected but is outside of the users field of view small red arrows at the sides of the display would point toward it.

Center: Targeting reticule.
A targeting reticule produced by a targeting computer in the visor interfacing with the weapon. It uses the weapons laser range finder and its own wind and other sensors combined with detailed information about the weapon and rounds them self to calculate exactly where the round will go with your weapon being pointed as it is. This might sound unnecessary with normal bullets, but once you get into rifle grenades, UGL's, RPG's and the myriad of other weapons regular soldiers use, many of whom are designed for indirect fire it suddenly makes sense. And yes, it can calculate for ballistic trajectories.

Other:
The visor would have a zoom function based on a camera implanted into the helmet. It would also have the ability to share visual input and split screens. That way an officer migth look at a target and send his visual to say the platoon mortar team who can than have half their visor displaying exactly where the rounds are impacting. The same could be done with CAS pilots and other friendly forces to ensure maximum coordination.

Maps and other stuff like that would not be linked to the HUD but issued with a military grade IPad like device instead. I figure it would be easier to use (since it has a keypad) and conceal anyway. Plus you can repair and reprogram these without a wireless link (much safer that way) without having to link your self to a cable or take off your armor. All in all its a better setup.

Oppinions? Anything else you think I should add? (Remember FT)
Last edited by Purpelia on Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Allanea
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Postby Allanea » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:53 am

This is becoming lolzier and lolzier.

What think you, NS readers? should I release the correct answer?
Allanea is ranked 1st in Greater Prussia and 115th in the world for Largest Defense Forces.
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Hittanryan
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Postby Hittanryan » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:11 pm

Er...getting away from the FT stuff, got a question on conscription. My system has universal conscription for support roles, with combat personnel filled strictly by volunteers. The vast majority of the army would be in the reserves during peacetime, and the soldiers would do the usual training on certain weekends to keep their skills sharp. Does this system seem reasonable?
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Kouralia
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Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kouralia » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:18 pm

Allanea wrote:This is becoming lolzier and lolzier.

What think you, NS readers? should I release the correct answer?


Erm, I don't get you at all...

Purpelia wrote:Speaking of FT HUD's what do you think would be a reasonable amount of info to display on them. This is what I thought:

Top left: Currently selected ammo type and count (don't ask, my guns are weird). Also, currently selected fire mode (newer hurts to know your gun is NOT yet on full auto when you are about to storm a room)

Top Right: Sensor display.
A radar like circle with a zoom function and range 4 subdivision lines + outer border. The display can be zoomed in or out to the fallowing settings:
1) Lines every 50m, circle range 250m
2) Lines every 100m, circle range 500m
3) Lines every 150m, circle range 750m
4) Lines every 200m (only really useful for commanders and maybe mortar teams), circle range 1000m

The display shows friendly forces as green dots decreasing friendly fire. It also links to a sound based sniper finder (one of those things that detect where an enemy is firing from) and displays these positions with red dots. And if someone is using his radio to communicate with you it flashes him to make you see exactly who is the one. Also, commanders can designate target locations for their troops (and especially friendly mortar teams) to see. I was also thinking of tying it into a motion tracker Alien style to track any movement in the vicinity, classify it based on the intensity and mark anything big that is moving but is not unidentified as a friendly as a hostile automatically. Also, when enemy fire is detected but is outside of the users field of view small red arrows at the sides of the display would point toward it.

Center: Targeting reticule.
A targeting reticule produced by a targeting computer in the visor interfacing with the weapon. It uses the weapons laser range finder and its own wind and other sensors combined with detailed information about the weapon and rounds them self to calculate exactly where the round will go with your weapon being pointed as it is. This might sound unnecessary with normal bullets, but once you get into rifle grenades, UGL's, RPG's and the myriad of other weapons regular soldiers use, many of whom are designed for indirect fire it suddenly makes sense. And yes, it can calculate for ballistic trajectories.

Other:
The visor would have a zoom function based on a camera implanted into the helmet. It would also have the ability to share visual input and split screens. That way an officer migth look at a target and send his visual to say the platoon mortar team who can than have half their visor displaying exactly where the rounds are impacting. The same could be done with CAS pilots and other friendly forces to ensure maximum coordination.

Maps and other stuff like that would not be linked to the HUD but issued with a military grade IPad like device instead. I figure it would be easier to use (since it has a keypad) and conceal anyway. Plus you can repair and reprogram these without a wireless link (much safer that way) without having to link your self to a cable or take off your armor. All in all its a better setup.

Oppinions? Anything else you think I should add? (Remember FT)


HUD, FT = Whatever the bloody hell you want. Your tech, you choose.

For MT you'd only really want some form of overlay with tactical things like callsign indicators and maybe a dot in the centre (which you can turn off) which shows ranges using a pair of lasers, then sending back the results.
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