by Christopher Thompson » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:09 pm
by Christopher Thompson » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:10 pm
by Christopher Thompson » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:36 pm
by Greater Americania » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:38 pm
by Christopher Thompson » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:08 pm
Greater Americania wrote:OOC: This is the wrong forum. This belongs in Factbooks and National Information.
by Euroslavia » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:29 pm
by Christopher Thompson » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:36 pm
Euroslavia wrote:Moved on over to Factbooks and National Information.
by The Zoogie People » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:46 pm
by Thrashia » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:28 am
The Soban Army is a Highly Organized, Extremely Well Trained and Fantastically Equipped Force of Professional Soldiers who swear a life-long oath to uphold the will of Kiith-Sa of Soban and the Diamid.
No Marriage, no ownership of land and property, and many other sacrifices are made to become a life-long soldier, but for some the reward, respect and honor that the title carries are more than worth the cost. All Sobani soldiers must join by the age of fifteen, can be male or female (although all females are held to the same standards as males in every regard), and must pledge a life of service directly to the Kiith-Sa of Soban.
Upon entry, a raw recruit goes through five years of strength and endurance training and conditioning, where he or she also learns survival tactics for many varied environments first-hand, as well as gaining a comprehensive understanding for military order and discipline, structure, and combat procedure including first-aid. A further three years of intensive combat training, which upon completion, the soldier is officially indoctrinated and chooses their profession from an array of available jobs based on the need and ability of the individual to complete them, as well as placement in country based on need and the desires of the individual. Positions of leadership are highly competitive, and can only be earned through hard experience and proof of skill and dedication.
Senior officers
* General: Kiith'Sa of Soban.
* Lieutenant General: XO of the army.
* Major General: Commander of a theater (the two of which are North and East, South and west)
* Brigadier General: Commander of a division.
* Colonel: XO of a division, responsible for all internal affairs, particularly intelligence. Also acts as a Quartermaster General for their division.
* Lieutenant Colonel: Senior officer in charge of a battalion, responsible for all war and peace affairs within his battalion.
* Major: XO in charge of a battalion, head of Central Signatory for his battalion.
* Captain: A battle hardened veteran of many campaigns in charge of a company.
* First Lieutenant: Same as second, except is battle hardened.
* Second Lieutenant: The lowest commissioned officer having never seen battle, in charge of a company
Non-Commissioned Officers
* Command Sergeant Major: Enlisted in charge of the Corps.
* Sergeant Major: Enlisted in charge of a division.
* First Sergeant: Enlisted in charge of a battalion.
* Master Sergeant: Enlisted in charge of a company.
* Sergeant First Class: Enlisted in charge of a platoon. They draw the attention of the men to the Central Signatory and issue the audible commands of the officers.
* Staff Sergeant: A supply sergeant who manages supply and divides booty at the platoon level, as well as taking care of pay and savings.
* Sergeant: A soldier who has seen many battles and has been seen fit to lead. In charge of a section.
Enlisted
* Specialist: These are trained specialists, such as surgeons, engineers, surveyors, and architects, as well as craftsmen. They are exempt from camp and hard labor duties due to the nature of their work, and receive higher pay.
* Corporal: Second and third rank soldiers who have seen battle many times.
* Private First Class: A First Rank private who has seen battle.
* Private: A new First Rank private.
* Recruit: The new recruits in training.
All equipment in the Soban Army is of the highest workmanship and quality.
Armor and weapons are kept after the deceased soldier has been buried, and re-claimed by the kiith for passage to a raw recruit. The name and rank of each soldier who has dawned the suit of armor is kept in the breast-plate of each suit and the handle of each weapon, and the new owner is expected to know the history behind his own gear, and to live up to those who have used it before him. Although most soldiers take use of the fantastic stock weapons found in any Sobanii armory, some feel the need to buy or craft their own. This is encouraged, as it bonds the soldier to his weapon personally as well as his armor. Each Sobanii soldier is unique in that unlike many other armies, he has the right to choose his implement of war; there are guidelines for what each soldier can and cannot carry with him into battle, but within those limitations he or she is free to choose between mace and axe, flail or sword.
The shocktrooper depicted here has the Shoulderplates of Sergeantry, Robes of Officership (implying he earned officership through becoming Sobani), and Trim (on the robes, chainmail and cloak) of Clerical Vestment (meaning he is a medic), a Sash of Bravery, as well as two jewels fixed into his robe holders awarded for gallantry and heroism.
Weaponry is often, as is the armor, decades old, and has been touched by a master crafter many times in its lifetime. This construction allows for light yet powerful weapons that are worthy of many hits before losing their edge or in need of repair, and very balanced weapons that are easy to wield and light to heft. The most common weapon by many leagues is the warmace, a large two-handed mace. And, as the soldier grows in rank and talent, or as the situation sees fit, his weapon is often modified.
This most common soldier (depicted above) is usually possessed of a warmace (or heavy mace and round shield) and heavy crossbow in weaponry. This makes up roughly one-third of all rank and file soldiers in the Republic.
These soldiers wield a composite heavy crossbow of exquisite construction, often decades old. Unlike the simple heavy crossbows of the Shocktrooper, these fire much larger bolts much farther,and much quicker. They commonly also wield a small mace for defense, and have significantly cut-down armor (usually just a breastplate and chainmail) and comprise about a fifth of any division.
Dragoon
Dragoons are a unit of fierce fighters who often fight a (literally) uphill battle against cavalry, with whom they specialize in killing. They wield either the classic Halberd, or what is more commonly appearing in modern units, the Nodachi (each dragoon in a section uses the same weapon as his first sergeant) is sometimes preferred, with a light mace or scimitar in reserve should they become encircled by foot soldiers. Dragoons wear a cut-down version of the shocktrooper armor that has only breastplate, shoulder armor, forearm plates, and only a complimentary amount of chain mail to allow them to move quickly and dexterously with their implements of war, and are usually another fifth of any division.
by Christopher Thompson » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:05 pm
Here is my first beef. You have to realize that since we are going by 1300 Medieval standards, that there is no such thing as a standing national army that is highly organized, extremely well rained, and fantastically equipped, or professional. The only men or units that match that description would be the small band of household knights or royal guards, and those would be regarded as heavies devoted to either the King's protection during battle, or for using as the killing blow when an enemy army is weakened. So, no, you cannot have your entire standing army match this description. The only forces that could would be the various mercenary companies that make their living by killing and making warfare upon their employer's neighbors.
I'll give you the equality stuff, but I'm not buying the first part. That is the creed of a monastic order following their particular creed or god, not of the average soldier who fights for his country or king. Also if you had every male and female join the army at the age of 15 your farming economy would be forced upon the older, and naturally more experienced, soldiers/farmers who would need the younger people for harvest and planting. So, that has to go too.
Again, going back to the economic factors here, you've got those young people spending eight years of their young and short lives doing things that are, for all intents and purposes, not a part of any medieval life ever known in history. Of course this is Roleplay, but we are trying to stay accurate. So in light of that fact, and the economic factors, you need to lose the whole "get 'em young and train 'em up" routine. Also "indoctrinated" is not a process that can be used with a normal foot soldier, maybe for a monastic order of knights or religious crazies, but not for regular troops.
Ok. So let me digress a bit more on the appropriate ranks that a medieval army would have.
First of all, you did good; a general is generally (pun intended) the highest rank. There are other titles that could be used, such as Marshal/ However there were never any such things as "Lieutenant," "Major," or "Brigadier" Generals in any medieval armies. Nor were there ever any colonels, lieutenant colonels, or majors.
Captains did exist and they functioned largely in the same role as modern day captains, majors, and colonels. A medieval captain of a company would have several aide-de-camps who would act as his hands, eyes, and mouth (ie officers) to do what modern day staff officers do.
There were Lieutenants, but no division of rank such as 1st and 2nd Lieutenant. It was a rare rank, but in the case of large armies when aide-de-camps were forming around a captain in too few numbers, officers would be indicated with the rank of lieutenant. They would act in place of aide-de-camps. The word lieutenant in fact is of French origin and means "holding a position"; thus meaning that it is a man who holds position in the absence of his superior. SO it is ok to use this rank, but not unless the composition of your force numbers above roughly 500 to 1,000 men.
Sergeants have been the backbone of every army since the first Philistine thought to stab a Israelite through the gut. However the division of ranks (aka Sergeant Major, First Sergeant, etc) did not exist until roughly the 19th century. So, like I said above, you need to lose those specifications. Simply have sergeants, no added title other than that. And sergeants would normally be made up of those men (or women if you like) who had decided that the military life would be their only occupation until death, like the old centurions of the Roman Legions. They are generally the only small core of experienced troops any country or kingdom will have to train its farmer-composed armies. You also are able to use the rank of Corporal, who are usually serving alongside sergeants for a lifetime appointment in a standing army.
As for the "Enlisted" section. Get rid of it. There was no such thing in medieval times. You had conscripts and soldiers. A soldier was simply called a soldier or a conscript until he achieved some rank (ie sergeant) after years of service.
No. Sorry. But no. Never has there ever been a medieval army that ever had been equipped with the same armour with the same quality/workmanship. To even attempt such a thing would bankrupt even the weathiest of kings.
Keeping older armour is cool. However it will, as time passes, begin to wear and tear. No amount of "reforging" will bring that up to snuff. Just saying.
The shocktrooper depicted here has the Shoulderplates of Sergeantry, Robes of Officership (implying he earned officership through becoming Sobani), and Trim (on the robes, chainmail and cloak) of Clerical Vestment (meaning he is a medic), a Sash of Bravery, as well as two jewels fixed into his robe holders awarded for gallantry and heroism.
Weaponry is often, as is the armor, decades old, and has been touched by a master crafter many times in its lifetime. This construction allows for light yet powerful weapons that are worthy of many hits before losing their edge or in need of repair, and very balanced weapons that are easy to wield and light to heft. The most common weapon by many leagues is the warmace, a large two-handed mace. And, as the soldier grows in rank and talent, or as the situation sees fit, his weapon is often modified.
This I am afraid is an impractical set up. Ignoring my previous arguments on armour, let me go onto weapons. It is fine if he possesses a mace or warhammer with a round shield. However the idea that these guys would be armed also with heavy crossbows is ridiculous. It's weight alone, being a heavy crossbow, would impede a warrior wearing anything close to plate armour (or even plain old chainmail). As would the ability to work the careful machinery that was used to operate an arbalest (or heavy crossbow), which would be nigh impossible for a fully armored man, even on foot. He'd either be a sitting duck trying to fiddle with his heavy crossbow, or he would be a slow target, trying to juggle a shield, mace, heavy crossbow, and bolts (not mentioning his armour).
So you need to rethink this part. 1) Lose the plate armour. 2) lose the heavy crossbow.
Nothing too big here. But I would like the point out that a composite heavy crossbow would need to be wielded by a man wearing little to no armour, not just some cut-back of plate. It's just the simply truth that a man wearing, at most, leather or cloth armor in a limited capacity, would be able to wield such a weapon as a "composite heavy crossbow" better than a man wearing chain mail and a full breastplate. The action of wielding and loading such a weapon with that amount of gear on would tire such troops out so fast that you would hardly get more than a half dozen volleys out of them before they would need to rest.
These should be a small, elite unit; not a major component of your army. Their description and weaponry makes them too specialized to be anything other than elite type troops. Meaning that they would operate in small numbers.
Other observations
You need to also drop the use of divisions. The only organization that could be applied to medieval armies would be the following: a platoon, a company, and army. A platoon could range between 10 to 30 men, a company from 50 to 2,000+, and an army from 2,000 to higher. Generals would organize their men according to the amount they had and the need for a battle. Meaning that one day a company would have only 200 men and the next day it would be reformed to number 1,000.
That's all that I found with this thread...
by Thrashia » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:44 pm
by Christopher Thompson » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:06 pm
by Thrashia » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:10 pm
by Rikese » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:45 am
Here is my first beef. You have to realize that since we are going by 1300 Medieval standards, that there is no such thing as a standing national army that is highly organized, extremely well rained, and fantastically equipped, or professional.
United Russian States wrote:Thrid Russia is moving towards an much larger force consiting of all volanteer soilders.
Mad hatters in jeans wrote:do you even expect for a minute i'd want to discuss anything further with you if you continue to show no respect to my opinions?
by Thrashia » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:56 am
by Christopher Thompson » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:11 pm
by Thrashia » Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:37 pm
Christopher Thompson wrote:Reading through your posts, I just realised something:
I believe you GREATLY overestimated the numbers of my army; it was slightly more than 9000 standing.
The rest being local garrison forces and city watch; that's it. I could muster more men, but they would be drafted, and thus be much more poorly equiped and significantly less disciplined.
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