Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mark 8

[Yukonastan]

I don't follow? Do you mean the engine oriented front-to-back rather than left-to-right?

Or do you mean a single row of cylinders?

'Cause if the first yes and if the second hell no.

awe man, my trucks ford inline 6 ripps good though

Tanks need more horsepower than a shitey ford engine can pump out when the stars are aligned right, let alone a ford engine on a good day.

[Padnak]

Tanks need more horsepower than a shitey ford engine can pump out when the stars are aligned right, let alone a ford engine on a good day.

alright there bud

thems fighting words

[Yukonastan]

Tanks need more horsepower than a shitey ford engine can pump out when the stars are aligned right, let alone a ford engine on a good day.

alright there bud

thems fighting words

if ye want a proper engine, mtu. never settle for less than mtu.

[Padnak]

if ye want a proper engine, mtu. never settle for less than mtu.

Cummings > mtu

if you're going to get into an engine dick measuring contest, why start with life's cruelest handicap?

(The old beast)
(1994 ford f 250 with a 12v Cummings diesel that I will some day own)

[The Akasha Colony]

It matters because it's a waste of protected volume. If you want to save space like you claim, you'd use a combined powerpack. That's the entire reason why it's used. Notice how other IFVs don't have to resort to such odd layouts to fit crew + dismounts + turret + engine just fine in their hulls.

The way I imagine it the engine and transmission are in the center with a single drive shaft (per side) running to a 90 degree gear connected to the drive sprockets. Hardly a miracle of engineering. At leas that's my understanding of how this would work. So the entire thing would still be one package minus two metal rods and 4 gears.

Two driveshafts? I thought we were trying to save space here?

That aside, if you've got both the transmission and engine in the middle of the vehicle, then you're making it even harder to service, since it'll probably start being too heavy for the men to pull out on their own.

I fully understand this much. But how much of an extra effort would it be?

If it takes a full half hour in a tank designed for rapid engine changes, and you have to go through all of those steps twice for the proposed vehicle with one of the components being more difficult to access than a simple rear engine, then I'd guess at least twice as long. So an hour, or more.

So the front armor just hinges open for access? I do not see why I could not do this to what ever needs to be in the front with a central engine layout.

I never said you couldn't. And that's how IFVs and front-engined tanks do it. It's just that in a central-engine vehicle, you'd still need to figure out how to get to the centrally-located engine on top of accessing the front-mounted transmission.

I am still not quite sure what this final drive thing is supposed to be. Google searches basically say it's either the transmission (which should be integrated with the engine the way I envision things) or the pair of 90 degree gears that get power to the drive sprockets. And these should be small enough to be maintainable from the driver or passenger cab, depending on where I put them.

In tracked vehicles, the final drive is connected to the steering drive as well, which alters the output power of the sprockets to allow the vehicle to turn. This of course being a key difference versus wheeled vehicles, which can turn by simply angling their wheels. The final drive integrates the engine power with the steering unit to allow the vehicle to maneuver via skid steering.

[Radicchio]

Latest of the lol-gasm AML photochops...

AML-60 SYMAR Conversion featuring the Fennek Stinger Weapons System

[Yukonastan]

if ye want a proper engine, mtu. never settle for less than mtu.

Cummings > mtu[/size]

can your cummings do this?

[Korva]

first jedsite went to a pay model and now MP.net is going down

;_;

also, hnngg

[Radicchio]

(Image)

I was the first to ripoff Saymar ltd, yay....

I knew someone was going to get off on that

[Doppio Giudici]

I made more, not sure if I did this right. Wanted a RWS and a backup turret.

[Radicchio]

(Image)

I made more, not sure if I did this right. Wanted a RWS and a backup turret.

That rear turret is pretty close to the engine, not sure if its too close but a remote turret would work there, could even go back farther.

[Doppio Giudici]

(Image)

I made more, not sure if I did this right. Wanted a RWS and a backup turret.

That rear turret is pretty close to the engine, not sure if its too close but a remote turret would work there, could even go back farther.

I think it is remote, there is no handle or stock.

[Radicchio]

That rear turret is pretty close to the engine, not sure if its too close but a remote turret would work there, could even go back farther.

I think it is remote, there is no handle or stock.

That would be a fair guess

[The Kievan People]

This said, if you could educate me a bit more on the whole final drive issue I'd be grateful. It's a bit confusing as I explained.

I should probably say,

The transmission.

[Auroya]

What's the reason that no tanks have optronics masts? Are they not all that useful?

[Imperializt Russia]

What's the reason that no tanks have optronics masts? Are they not all that useful?

They're expensive and require penetration into the crew cabin.

I assume there's a technological reason too, since particularly effective masts will have been a product of the last couple decades.

[Auroya]

Yay, a tank. A statblock will come soon, along with possibly more versions. Criticize it to your heart's content, thread.

[Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502]

What's the reason that no tanks have optronics masts? Are they not all that useful?

They're expensive and require penetration into the crew cabin.

I assume there's a technological reason too, since particularly effective masts will have been a product of the last couple decades.

Plus I assume that, with modern armies at least, much better information can be gained from satellite photos, and planes flying overhead, or micro UAVs.

[Purpelia]

Two driveshafts? I thought we were trying to save space here?

No, not really. It's just that I want to put the crew in the hull with an unmanned turret so I need space in the front. And I want passengers in the back so I need space in the rear. And the only room left is in the middle.

That aside, if you've got both the transmission and engine in the middle of the vehicle, then you're making it even harder to service, since it'll probably start being too heavy for the men to pull out on their own.

I figure any heavy servicing will have to be done with a winch. Possibly with the aid of another vehicle.

If it takes a full half hour in a tank designed for rapid engine changes, and you have to go through all of those steps twice for the proposed vehicle with one of the components being more difficult to access than a simple rear engine, then I'd guess at least twice as long. So an hour, or more.

I don't think we have the same idea about how this is supposed to work. I'll draw you an image.

Left to right: Normal configuration, your idea, my idea.

Obviously this is a massively simplified drawing to the point of being absurd. But it demonstrates the design point.

I never said you couldn't. And that's how IFVs and front-engined tanks do it. It's just that in a central-engine vehicle, you'd still need to figure out how to get to the centrally-located engine on top of accessing the front-mounted transmission.

So basically it's just a function of added work? Out of curiosity, why would you need to do both jobs at the same time? You can just give the engine and transmission maintenance on alternating weeks or something.

In tracked vehicles, the final drive is connected to the steering drive as well, which alters the output power of the sprockets to allow the vehicle to turn. This of course being a key difference versus wheeled vehicles, which can turn by simply angling their wheels. The final drive integrates the engine power with the steering unit to allow the vehicle to maneuver via skid steering.

An I see. Thanks for the explanation.

[New Vihenia]

Is there any benefit on switching to electric ignition for tank gun Vs conventional firing pin/primer ?

I read panther used it. But no pros and cons described.

[Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502]

All fear my mega-rod penetrator!

EDIT: Quick question. If an anti-tank shot(like HEAT or sabot) were to have a penetration value of ~ 900mm of armor, and the armor it were hitting were only marginally thicker(like say 950mm), could the round theoretically still kill the tank? Though spalling, perhaps, or the lack of resistance as it gets deeper through the armor would just cause it to give way? And I know RHAe isn't the greatest measurement to use with composite armor, but just wondering.

[Imperializt Russia]

They're expensive and require penetration into the crew cabin.

I assume there's a technological reason too, since particularly effective masts will have been a product of the last couple decades.

Plus I assume that, with modern armies at least, much better information can be gained from satellite photos, and planes flying overhead, or micro UAVs.

The delay on the first two can be hours or potentially days. The latter requires an additional unit and is conducting reconnaissance for a battalion or regiment.

Optronic masts on tanks would allow a tank commander to gain a tactical advantage on his battlefield, over his immediate opponent.
No-one's going to dispatch a U-2 or a Keyhole for Lieutenant Smith to look for four Russian tanks over the next hill. Especially since by the time it arrives he's either dead or he's killed Sergey.

[Imperializt Russia]

All fear my mega-rod penetrator!

EDIT: Quick question. If an anti-tank shot(like HEAT or sabot) were to have a penetration value of ~ 900mm of armor, and the armor it were hitting were only marginally thicker(like say 950mm), could the round theoretically still kill the tank? Though spalling, perhaps, or the lack of resistance as it gets deeper through the armor would just cause it to give way? And I know RHAe isn't the greatest measurement to use with composite armor, but just wondering.

If you penetrate very deeply into a plate, that plate will be substantially weakened and may fail under further fire.
However, almost all modern and recent tanks use armour arrays of different materials.

These materials will be designed to resist their likely opponent's munitions and may perform less effectively against other munitions. Such arrays, composing of lots of ceramics and similar materials, will typically resist CE munitions (HEAT) greater than KE munitions (APFSDS).
Raw penetration isn't the only measure either. With the M829 family, the penetrators have been getting fatter and heavier, but slower. While this may reduce the impact energy, it allows it greater chance to penetrate Russian ERA, which will be detonated by high-velocity munitions.

[Laywenrania]

EDIT: Quick question. If an anti-tank shot(like HEAT or sabot) were to have a penetration value of ~ 900mm of armor, and the armor it were hitting were only marginally thicker(like say 950mm), could the round theoretically still kill the tank? Though spalling, perhaps, or the lack of resistance as it gets deeper through the armor would just cause it to give way? And I know RHAe isn't the greatest measurement to use with composite armor, but just wondering.

Penetration is not binary. A shell may penetrate 100mm of armour with 80% probability and 115mm of armour with 50% probability and then 130mm of armour with 20% probability. So a shell penetrating 900mm of armour in 50% of the cases may penetrate 950mm of armour in some cases, but can also fail to penetrate 850mm of armour in worst case (just exemplary numbers)

it allows it greater chance to penetrate Russian ERA, which will be detonated by high-velocity munitions.

Wasn't the later generation of ERA developed to counter this?

[Imperializt Russia]

ERA is always developed to counter munitions developments.