Argument Thread OOC Future Tech Only

[The Fedral Union]

I never claimed it wasn't feasible only that most types of theories regarding FTL require more power than a fission reactor could ever provide. In NS of course you have all sorts of wacky inventions but the key is safety. Though its not bad as antimatter.

[Lemonius]

Hello FT people,

I've been off of NS for well over a year but I'm beggining to make a comeback.

I'm curious as to whether anyone knows what happened to the ESUS Alliance Galaxy map, it is most likely old news but I haven't been keeping up to date with NS happenings Is there a replacement of any kind, I know of the NS Galaxy map, but I was thinking of any other deticated sites as such.

Thanks for the help

- Lem

[Arthropoda Ingens]

I never claimed it wasn't feasible only that most types of theories regarding FTL require more power than a fission reactor could ever provide. In NS of course you have all sorts of wacky inventions but the key is safety. Though its not bad as antimatter.

Most hypotheses regarding FTL require a remarkably funky set of preconditions that, among other things, includes more energy than the universe contains.

Whether you use a fission or a fusion reactor makes about as much of a difference as using a single burning twig or two burning twigs to keep your naked self warm during winter.

On Pluto.

The 'Wacky Invention' you speak of is 'FTL'. Not 'Low-energy-requirement' FTL, but 'FTL'. If you believe you're 'More Realistic' or whatever because your FTL is more of a power hog than someone elses, you're just bullshitting yourself.

... Also, didn't Trekkie FTL kinda require antimatter? I guess you've changed your techbase quite thoroughly since I last checked - admittedly, that was a fair while ago.

[Feazanthia]

Trekkie FTL just needed the energy densities provided by M-AM reactions IIRC. Theoretically you could do it with a good enough fusion plant.

[The Fedral Union]

I never claimed it wasn't feasible only that most types of theories regarding FTL require more power than a fission reactor could ever provide. In NS of course you have all sorts of wacky inventions but the key is safety. Though its not bad as antimatter.

Most hypotheses regarding FTL require a remarkably funky set of preconditions that, among other things, includes more energy than the universe contains.

Whether you use a fission or a fusion reactor makes about as much of a difference as using a single burning twig or two burning twigs to keep your naked self warm during winter.

On Pluto.

The 'Wacky Invention' you speak of is 'FTL'. Not 'Low-energy-requirement' FTL, but 'FTL'. If you believe you're 'More Realistic' or whatever because your FTL is more of a power hog than someone elses, you're just bullshitting yourself.


... Also, didn't Trekkie FTL kinda require antimatter? I guess you've changed your techbase quite thoroughly since I last checked - admittedly, that was a fair while ago.

I haven't been trek in over three years dude. I use different totally different ships designs concepts.

[Balrogga]

Hello FT people,

I've been off of NS for well over a year but I'm beggining to make a comeback.

I'm curious as to whether anyone knows what happened to the ESUS Alliance Galaxy map, it is most likely old news but I haven't been keeping up to date with NS happenings Is there a replacement of any kind, I know of the NS Galaxy map, but I was thinking of any other deticated sites as such.

Thanks for the help

- Lem

The Mindset Map went away after Mindset got himself deleated over trolling or some other offense. He has moved onto other projects and plans on using the software he wrote for the Map on another RL application. This is why he was unable to pass it onto anyone to use and upkeep, it would cause some legal issues when he finished and sold his project (whatever it is).

[Shuggy555]

why do people state that fusion has greater energy density sure D+T fussion does but most others don't and the problem with D+T fusion is most of its energy is in the form of nuetrons witch is hard to convert into heat energy so that benefit is basicly mute

[The Fedral Union]

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/atomicfuel.php
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/fusionfuel.php

that should help you out.

[Lord Atum]

Trekkie FTL just needed the energy densities provided by M-AM reactions IIRC. Theoretically you could do it with a good enough fusion plant.

And indeed, they did. The Romulans used 'impulse power' in TOS, which is generally thought to be fusion. Zephram Cochrane's Phoenix didn't have mention of antimatter either though potentially might have had, it seems unlikely. And the later Romulans generate power through the use of matter-conversion using miniature black holes.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

EE ships use claudia, a bit of unobtanium which, when mixed with water, releases its SCIENCE! content in such a way as to make ships go, as illustrated here:

[The Fedral Union]

So like every other FTL drive?

[OMGeverynameistaken]

So like every other FTL drive?

That's the STL drive.
FTL employs a Webway ripoff system with lovecraftian horrors thrown in for added fun.

[The Fedral Union]

Oh, all right then Though I have the image in my head of coal being fed in to them for some reason.

[Rethan]

Oh, all right then Though I have the image in my head of coal being fed in to them for some reason.

I think that's the image he goes for. So he's succeeded then.

[The Fedral Union]

Well does he have overseers whipping slaves piling in shovels filled with coal in to the engine in dark cramped conditions?

[Dbrought]

Well does he have overseers whipping slaves piling in shovels filled with coal in to the engine in dark cramped conditions?

I believe the correct term is serfs, not slaves. As Imperialist Russia did have serfs the longest out of all the European powers.

[The Fedral Union]

Serf's Slaves.. .same thing to me different name.. IIRC serfs used the land provided by the nobles and were constantly indebted to them. So they are sort of finical slaves.

[Dbrought]

Serf's Slaves.. .same thing to me different name.. IIRC serfs used the land provided by the nobles and were constantly indebted to them. So they are sort of finical slaves.

Slaves have no rights and can be bought and sold. Serfs have a social contract with their nobles. They work for them and the nobles protect them and give them food, shelter, necessities for living etc. its a step up and they can claim they don't have slaves. or at least a certain (gender, ethnicity, group,) type of slaves

[Michael Kenmore]

Serf's Slaves.. .same thing to me different name.. IIRC serfs used the land provided by the nobles and were constantly indebted to them. So they are sort of finical slaves.

Slaves have no rights and can be bought and sold. Serfs have a social contract with their nobles. They work for them and the nobles protect them and give them food, shelter, necessities for living etc. its a step up and they can claim they don't have slaves. or at least a certain (gender, ethnicity, group,) type of slaves

Aha, then I shall call all the humans in my nation "serfs" and then I won't have slaves anymore.

[Morningstar Coalition]

Though of course, the usefulness of fusion's energy density comes down mostly to 'I can have bigger pewpew' (Which in turn requires a pretty spiffy materials science, otherwise fission is technically enough, if logistically disadvantageous, for reasons pointed out by Feazanthia).

Claims that 'FTL requires fucktons of energy' are of course bullshit. An FTL variant I made up myself, and for which I'm saying that it requires a fuckton of energy', yes. But there's nothing, absolutely nothing, that stops people from saying that their FTL/ Timetravel/ Teleport/ Whatever method requires only miniscule amounts of energy. Say, the heat energy you get from rubbing your hands together for five seconds.

Or just a really hot cup of tea.


Regarding fission vs fusion. The energy density question comes from the amount of energy which can be extracted from a set volume of fuel, Even using D-T fusion cycles, the energy density is at least an order of magnitude greater than all current fission cycles.

Yes, D-T and most other fusion cycles produce free neutrons. However, you're wrong that these cannot be tapped for power. A coolant layer using water will heat under neutron bombardment, and this heat can be tapped for power generation in a similar manner to fission reactors.

The real key for FT in the fusion vs fission arena however is superconductor technology. If materials science permits the fabrication of high-temperature superconductors, then the efficiency of fusion containment methods skyrockets, which allows net power production MUCH faster than all existing fusion designs. This increase in efficiency will further outpace fission (which cannot be improved beyond the limits of it's fuel source).
Finally, once a culture becomes interstellar (possibly even at interplanetary stages), the plausible and practical harvesting or manufacture of Helium-3 fuel becomes economical. A He3-He3 fusion reaction produces many times more power than nearly any fission reaction, and produces ZERO neutron output.

[Derscon]

Or just a really hot cup of tea.

My starships run on earl grey.

[Feazanthia]

Or just a really hot cup of tea.

My starships run on earl grey.

SAVAGE

Earl Grey is for DRINKING, you barbarian!

[Derscon]

My starships run on earl grey.

SAVAGE

Earl Grey is for DRINKING, you barbarian!

You seem to be implying my constructs are not ladies of grace and gentlemen of culture. I cannot stand for this insult and I must insist you withdraw your comment immediately.

[The Steampunk Empire]

I see one small problem with this concept.. One tiny chink in an otherwise splendid steam punk aether treading star ship with great reflective sails and masts.. Im sure youve considered it.

When far away from a star such a ship shall need to put on exponentially more and more sail, indeed without a real..jump its going to get mighty ah ..Slow to change V once you’ve gone past your sail mass/ power / delta v ratio, and indeed somewhere there there’s going to be a limit. While having a space prop could possibly give you as much thrust as you want (indeed precisely as much thrust as you want) (and even FTL) than just a thermal solar rocket or straight light sail there’s going to be points that get hard to ..Um navigate. of course that could and would add to the fun of it buuut

There are some mighty dark gaps between some stars and even in the outer planets light tends to get a little ..scarce and then we get to the other thing..

"Now entering planetary totality, coasting and on remaining boiler temperature and coal dust turbines for the next 4 minutes. "

Which means that engagements in the dark will be ..Interesting especially if someone figures out that deploying a few serious light sails is a hoot.

Well, for in system, we use solar sails, in combat, we have reserve tanks of really really highly pressurised steam that we vent to manoeuvre. The aether props are generally only used for FTL... They have two speeds, "off" and "All the speed"... We pretty much just jump from system to system, we dont spend much time in the void between stars, cause well, its all cold and dark an there's nothing there except scary scary lovecraftian horrors that want to eat our souls...

[Balrogga]

we dont spend much time in the void between stars, cause well, its all cold and dark an there's nothing there except scary scary lovecraftian horrors that want to eat our souls...

Not true, I am also inside systems as well as outside them.

Us Cosmic Horrors can be anywhere you don't want us to be, right Rethan?