Hypothetical health care vs secession

[Greed and Death]

First I am not advocating secession.

Anyways here is the scenario.
The majority of the red states lead by Texas threaten to secede from the union over health care and have taken steps that suggest they will follow through on it. Would it be worth continuing health care nationalization at the risk of a civil war or 1/3 the US leaving?

[Farnhamia]

I believe the question of secession was settled during the 1860s. It's not a viable threat.

[Greed and Death]

I believe the question of secession was settled during the 1860s. It's not a viable threat.

You don't seem to live in Texas.
And violent resistance is always a viable threat.

[Obvious Pseudonym]

Better health care and we get to get rid of Texas et al? Where do I sign?

[Farnhamia]

I believe the question of secession was settled during the 1860s. It's not a viable threat.

You don't seem to live in Texas.
And violent resistance is always a viable threat.

Texas National Guard versus the US Army? That dog don't hunt. Or even better, fine, secede. The US withdraws all the military bases from Texas, the Johnson Space Center in Houston, and whatever else the Federal government funds. In fact, I found a little page out there that lists the things Texas would lose:

Lackland Air Force Base
Randolph Air Force Base
Laughlin Air Force Base
Goodfellow Air Force Base
Sheppard Air Force Base
Dyess Air Force Base
Brooks City Base
Biggs Army Airfield
Camp Bullis
Corpus Christi Army Depot
Fort Bliss
Fort Hood
Fort Sam Houston
Red River Army Depot
Corpus Christi Naval Air Station
Fort Worth Naval Air Station, Joint Reserve Base
Ingleside Naval Station
Galveston Coast Guard Station

[Governor Perry] also kicked all the FEMA people out of Galveston; sent back all federal highway funds; had all state universities return their federal grant money; agreed to close all National Weather Service stations in Texas; refunded federal Medicaid and Medicare funds; closed down all federal courts in the state; cancelled all federal defense contracts active in the state; asked the Border Patrol and INS to leave; said the State of Texas would now guaranty all the banks in the state; and closed all FBI offices in the state.

For some reason, however, he said the George W. Bush Presidential Library could stay.

Can you say "economic wasteland"?

[Greed and Death]

I believe the question of secession was settled during the 1860s. It's not a viable threat.

You don't seem to live in Texas.
And violent resistance is always a viable threat.

Texas National Guard versus the US Army? That dog don't hunt. Or even better, fine, secede. The US withdraws all the military bases from Texas, the Johnson Space Center in Houston, and whatever else the Federal government funds. In fact, I found a little page out there that lists the things Texas would lose:

Lackland Air Force Base
Randolph Air Force Base
Laughlin Air Force Base
Goodfellow Air Force Base
Sheppard Air Force Base
Dyess Air Force Base
Brooks City Base
Biggs Army Airfield
Camp Bullis
Corpus Christi Army Depot
Fort Bliss
Fort Hood
Fort Sam Houston
Red River Army Depot
Corpus Christi Naval Air Station
Fort Worth Naval Air Station, Joint Reserve Base
Ingleside Naval Station
Galveston Coast Guard Station

[Governor Perry] also kicked all the FEMA people out of Galveston; sent back all federal highway funds; had all state universities return their federal grant money; agreed to close all National Weather Service stations in Texas; refunded federal Medicaid and Medicare funds; closed down all federal courts in the state; cancelled all federal defense contracts active in the state; asked the Border Patrol and INS to leave; said the State of Texas would now guaranty all the banks in the state; and closed all FBI offices in the state.

For some reason, however, he said the George W. Bush Presidential Library could stay.

Can you say "economic wasteland"?

I guess the 58 fortune 500 companies that choose to headquarter in Texas(more then any other state) couldn't support the economy.
also Texas is a tax donor state which means all those federally funded programs you just listed could be provided by the state of Texas for less then the federal income taxes we would get out of.

[Gift-of-god]

The threat of secession is about as real as the threat of the free marketeers going Galt.

Let's not let imaginary fantasies get in the way of needed healthcare reform.

[Farnhamia]

I guess the 58 fortune 500 companies that choose to headquarter in Texas(more then any other state) couldn't support the economy.
also Texas is a tax donor state which means all those federally funded programs you just listed could be provided by the state of Texas for less then the federal income taxes we would get out of.

That depends on how the Federal government wants to play it. If they tell your Fortune 500 companies that doing business in Texas will lose them contracts in the US, they might reconsider.

But hey, I really don't care. I think Perry should try to get a secession resolution through the Texas legislature, see how that goes. It's one thing to shoot your mouth off and another to step up and try it. I shall watch with interest. Well, some interest, anyway. Just as long as Colorado doesn't get hit with an influx of ex-Texans fleeing north on I-25.

[Sarzonia]

I believe the question of secession was settled during the 1860s. It's not a viable threat.

You don't seem to live in Texas.
And violent resistance is always a viable threat.

If we kicked the South's ass before, we'll do it again. And this time, the terms of their eventual surrender will be much, much harsher.

[Ostronopolis]

Well, hopefully the health care reforms fail, and this will be moot.

[Sibirsky]

Texas added more jobs in 2008 than all the other states COMBINED. It has no state income tax AND a balanced budget. Maybe Republicans are not so stupid after all?

How's high tax California doing? How about New York?

Not much of a housing bust in Texas. It's also a high income state. I

[Sibirsky]

Well, hopefully the health care reforms fail, and this will be moot.

Agreed. I am not sure it will though.

[Gift-of-god]

To me, this simply shows desperation.

"We can't come up with a good reason to stop these health care reforms, so we're just going to threaten secession instead."

[Sibirsky]

To me, this simply shows desperation.

"We can't come up with a good reason to stop these health care reforms, so we're just going to threaten secession instead."

And trying to push a thousand page bill in 2 weeks is not desperation? Setting unrealistic deadline is not desperation?

[Farnhamia]

To me, this simply shows desperation.

"We can't come up with a good reason to stop these health care reforms, so we're just going to threaten secession instead."

It's the equivalent of turning over the checkerboard or taking your bat and glove and going home when you're losing.

I say, go ahead, try it. Have the Governor get a secession resolution introduced in the legislature and we'll see how it plays. What's the term? Put up or shut up?

[Farnhamia]

To me, this simply shows desperation.

"We can't come up with a good reason to stop these health care reforms, so we're just going to threaten secession instead."

And trying to push a thousand page bill in 2 weeks is not desperation? Setting unrealistic deadline is not desperation?

Wouldn't be the first time a thousand-page bill got rushed through. I seem to recall that being done when a different party held the majority in Congress. And setting unrealistic deadlines is unrealistic, not desperate.

[Secruss]

The threat of secession is about as real as the threat of the free marketeers going Galt.

Let's not let imaginary fantasies get in the way of needed healthcare reform.

[Risottia]

First I am not advocating secession.

Anyways here is the scenario.
The majority of the red states lead by Texas threaten to secede from the union over health care and have taken steps that suggest they will follow through on it. Would it be worth continuing health care nationalization at the risk of a civil war or 1/3 the US leaving?

Since the third that would be leaving is Texas, hell yes. So:
bonus for the US: get rid of Texans AND get universal healthcare
bonus for Texas: Lone Star Republic again AND no universal healthcare

Everybody wins! Apart for Texan poors, I guess...

[Secruss]

And there's no poor anywhere else?

[Farnhamia]

The threat of secession is about as real as the threat of the free marketeers going Galt.

Let's not let imaginary fantasies get in the way of needed healthcare reform.

I laugh in John Galt's face. Someone post the Angry Flower strip about this.

[Ashmoria]

First I am not advocating secession.

Anyways here is the scenario.
The majority of the red states lead by Texas threaten to secede from the union over health care and have taken steps that suggest they will follow through on it. Would it be worth continuing health care nationalization at the risk of a civil war or 1/3 the US leaving?

if it could get that many stupid people out of the US gene pool it would be a good thing....

[Gift-of-god]

And trying to push a thousand page bill in 2 weeks is not desperation?

No. It isn't.

Setting unrealistic deadline is not desperation?

What are you talking about?

[Eofaerwic]

Yes. Texas and co shouldn't be allowed to block every legislation they don't like by screaming "we'll secede if it goes through!". It completely undermines the democratic process and holds the rest of the US hostage to the whims of a handful of southern states. If anything I'd say if they were seriously suggesting this (as opposed to just throwing their toys out the pram) then the federal government would have even more cause to continue with the legilsation on principle. Otherwise it sets a precedent that states can block something they don't want with a threat of drastic action. And then that could lead to, for example, the New England states threatening to leave if a future republican administration put forward pro-life legislation or tax cuts for the rich or whatever.

[The_pantless_hero]

I guess the 58 fortune 500 companies that choose to headquarter in Texas(more then any other state) couldn't support the economy.
also Texas is a tax donor state which means all those federally funded programs you just listed could be provided by the state of Texas for less then the federal income taxes we would get out of.

The federally funded programs like the assload of military bases and government sites? Texas would automatically have the highest unemployment rate in the Americas.

[Opola]

Did anyone see the Obama National Press Conference last night?

My opinion: Obama and his government should not get involved in the free market. Obama also needs to stop spending and limit government waste (healthcare reform). Also, why should the governement take money from the wealthy and give it to the poor. The wealthy do not benefit from this and neither do middle class americans.