Do you belive in human caused global warming?

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't 'believe' it's a matter of 'belief'. The evidence suggests that there is a definite anthropogenic component to global climate change. Which means that people who deny global climate change are choosing their own preconception over evidence - and I don't care about their opinions.

Hence the quotation marks. It's a bit too soon after getting up for me to think properly. "Believe" was unsatisfactory, but I couldn't think of an alternative at that point.

It's not your post I object to - it was just the platform, for which I thank you.

There is a school of thought that preaches (and I 'believe' that 'preach' really is the most appropriate word, there) that your position on global climate change really is a matter of personal preference or opinion, and objective data be damned.

That's what I object to. As I've heard before - we can have different opinions... but we can't have different facts.

[Navich]

I think you guys are all missing the point:

Who cares if human activities increase global warming or not?

When it actually becomes a problem, we'll all be dead. Just don't have children if you don't want to feel bad for them. Humans aren't useful or important. And they are suicidal as a species. /voiceofreason

Honestly though, I think it's pretty clear that humans do contribute to climate change.

[George W Bush AOED]

That was meant to be a joke, the serious stuff is under the spoiler!

So your 'thread' is you linking to a joke, laughing at it... and using that as a springboard to preach your opinion in direct contradiction to established consensus and evidence?

What do you think this is, a church?

Your "consensus" is a church.

[Grave_n_idle]

Documentary?

I thought it was a mockumentary.

Something like that. A retarded fifth grader could have questioned that simple minded presentation.

It's hard to know quite how to respond. I'd never have made the association you just made for yourself. *shrugs*

[Grave_n_idle]

So your 'thread' is you linking to a joke, laughing at it... and using that as a springboard to preach your opinion in direct contradiction to established consensus and evidence?

What do you think this is, a church?

Your "consensus" is a church.

Objective evidence is a matter of theology? Interesting perspective.

Parody account, amirite?

[Grave_n_idle]

I think you guys are all missing the point:

Who cares if human activities increase global warming or not?

When it actually becomes a problem, we'll all be dead. Just don't have children if you don't want to feel bad for them. Humans aren't useful or important. And they are suicidal as a species. /voiceofreason

Honestly though, I think it's pretty clear that humans do contribute to climate change.

I 'care' if we're contributing - because it means we could alter our impact, and we're just choosing not to.

[George W Bush AOED]

Your "consensus" is a church.

Objective evidence is a matter of theology? Interesting perspective.

Parody account, amirite?

No. It is I. George W Bush. I got a book out. You should check it out.

[Ceannairceach]

My favourite argument I've been seeing a lot lately has been, "Well, the planet used to be a lot hotter a million years ago! No biggie!"

Apparently these people don't realize how much higher sea level was then. Even if there were no other negative effects, flooding every coastal region on the planet would be massive disaster.

"No biggie"er here. I posted in another thread why I don't exactly care about increased sea levels.

Well, considering every place I've ever lived or know anyone who live there is below sea level, I care. A lot. And why don't you care, exactly?

[Josh Sinister]

Humans have been the cause of everything really. You must admit that.

Yes! Destroy the filthy humans! Damn their scientific advances and their fragility! I propose a human genocide! Especially damn The ability to evolve under extreme conditions! Damn that to hell! Even when you talk, you're destroying the ozone layer. Even breathing! Even thoughts! Occam's razor can suck it because it was created by HUMANS. DESTROY THE ALL MULTI CELLULAR ORGANISMS!!!!

[Lauchlin]

My favourite argument I've been seeing a lot lately has been, "Well, the planet used to be a lot hotter a million years ago! No biggie!"

Apparently these people don't realize how much higher sea level was then. Even if there were no other negative effects, flooding every coastal region on the planet would be massive disaster.

"No biggie"er here. I posted in another thread why I don't exactly care about increased sea levels.

If you don't care about unprecedented famines and billions of refugees, I suspect there isn't much you care about.

[Navich]

I think you guys are all missing the point:

Who cares if human activities increase global warming or not?

When it actually becomes a problem, we'll all be dead. Just don't have children if you don't want to feel bad for them. Humans aren't useful or important. And they are suicidal as a species. /voiceofreason

Honestly though, I think it's pretty clear that humans do contribute to climate change.

I 'care' if we're contributing - because it means we could alter our impact, and we're just choosing not to.

Of course we could. But the way I see things, there are only two options:
1. We will act and better our chance of survival.
2. We will deny it, and risk disappearing.

Although I do have a slight preference for the first option, it's just not strong enough for me to get upset over it. Good luck convincing the word though. I cheer for your efforts. I really do.

[Eireann Fae]

My favourite argument I've been seeing a lot lately has been, "Well, the planet used to be a lot hotter a million years ago! No biggie!"

Apparently these people don't realize how much higher sea level was then. Even if there were no other negative effects, flooding every coastal region on the planet would be massive disaster.

"No biggie"er here. I posted in another thread why I don't exactly care about increased sea levels.

First post about why I think it wouldn't exactly bring about human extinction. Second post about general human adaptability, and expanding on the first.

Well, considering every place I've ever lived or know anyone who live there is below sea level, I care. A lot. And why don't you care, exactly?

You have a personal attachment to people in coastal/lowland areas. I'd be surprised if one in your situation did not care. I, however, can be fairly detached. See the two links above as to why I think we, as a species, will be alright.

[Staenwald]

There maybe evidence that CO2 emissions have increaed and that the temperature has risen along with it. It is possible that humans have an impact on climate change, but I don't think the way forward is to stop burning fossile fuels. Cutting our emissions will just give us afew years longer until it happens and the way forward is to use the technology we have now to develop further technologies which don't require fossil fuels (and are more efficient).

I do think pollution other than CO2 is definately a problem though and we should aim to tackle it. We don't need to tighten regulations, just keep an eye on possible polluters. If we own private land, we can sue if the company pollutes it. If the pollution makes us ill, we can sue them.

Government intervention is not the way forward, it simply ties the people more and more to the state- they are using climate change in an attempt to control our lives.

[Eireann Fae]

If you don't care about unprecedented famines and billions of refugees, I suspect there isn't much you care about.

There's a difference between not caring and not being every bit as concerned as you happen to be. Personally, I think the effect would be devastating. I never said I didn't care, I merely said "we'll make it through". If you read the posts I lined to above, you'll see that it wouldn't surprise me if our numbers were drastically slashed, and our ways of life completely changed. I just don't hold a particularly grim view of the situation. Perhaps I'm more optimistic than you :)

[Grave_n_idle]

I 'care' if we're contributing - because it means we could alter our impact, and we're just choosing not to.

Of course we could. But the way I see things, there are only two options:
1. We will act and better our chance of survival.
2. We will deny it, and risk disappearing.

Although I do have a slight preference for the first option, it's just not strong enough for me to get upset over it. Good luck convincing the word though. I cheer for your efforts. I really do.

It's not a matter of being 'upset'. It's a simple matter of stupidity - it would be stupid of us, as a species, to be the instruments of our own destruction. After all - we, alone, have the advantage of knowing and comprehending our own extinction, and how we will make it happen. Mammoths weren't made extinct by stupidity. Even Dodos weren't killed by stupidity. We're poised to garner ourselves a rather questionable unique reputation.

[The Imperial Navy]

I'm gonna say that the world is definitely getting hotter, man is definitely doing something to the Earth, however minor it might be, but I will say one thing to those who follow "OMG look at the patterns!"

Nature is anything but predictable. It is constantly shifting, changing, remoulding. So we are not entirely sure how much of the warming or CO2 output is natural.

[Grave_n_idle]

There maybe evidence that CO2 emissions have increaed and that the temperature has risen along with it. It is possible that humans have an impact on climate change, but I don't think the way forward is to stop burning fossile fuels. Cutting our emissions will just give us afew years longer until it happens and the way forward is to use the technology we have now to develop further technologies which don't require fossil fuels (and are more efficient).

I do think pollution other than CO2 is definately a problem though and we should aim to tackle it. We don't need to tighten regulations, just keep an eye on possible polluters. If we own private land, we can sue if the company pollutes it. If the pollution makes us ill, we can sue them.

Government intervention is not the way forward, it simply ties the people more and more to the state- they are using climate change in an attempt to control our lives.

Unfortunately, if the only way to stop people acting stupid and destructive is to tie their hands... tying their hands might just be the right thing to do.

[Eireann Fae]

It's not a matter of being 'upset'. It's a simple matter of stupidity - it would be stupid of us, as a species, to be the instruments of our own destruction. After all - we, alone, have the advantage of knowing and comprehending our own extinction, and how we will make it happen. Mammoths weren't made extinct by stupidity. Even Dodos weren't killed by stupidity. We're poised to garner ourselves a rather questionable unique reputation.

Looking at humanity's very self-destructive and ridiculously violent past (and present, and foreseeable future), I don't think you make too strong of a point here...

[Tagmatium]

Even Dodos weren't killed by stupidity. We're poised to garner ourselves a rather questionable unique reputation.

Hurrah?

[Grave_n_idle]

I'm gonna say that the world is definitely getting hotter, man is definitely doing something to the Earth, however minor it might be, but I will say one thing to those who follow "OMG look at the patterns!"

Nature is anything but predictable. It is constantly shifting, changing, remoulding. So we are not entirely sure how much of the warming or CO2 output is natural.

We don't need to be "entirely sure how much". The evidence says there is some anthropogenic contribution, which means there is some contribution we make that we could not make.

[Lauchlin]

If you don't care about unprecedented famines and billions of refugees, I suspect there isn't much you care about.

There's a difference between not caring and not being every bit as concerned as you happen to be. Personally, I think the effect would be devastating. I never said I didn't care, I merely said "we'll make it through". If you read the posts I lined to above, you'll see that it wouldn't surprise me if our numbers were drastically slashed, and our ways of life completely changed. I just don't hold a particularly grim view of the situation. Perhaps I'm more optimistic than you

There aren't many people aside from histrionic high school students who are claiming that climate change will make the planet uninhabitable or cause human extinction. It's things like refugees, famines, and wars that are worrying people, along with collapsing biodiversity caused by ocean acidification and the loss of other ecosystems. The planet isn't going to become Venus any time soon.

That's why I'm a little startled by your "no biggie" attitude. If that prospect doesn't bother you, what would?

[Grave_n_idle]

It's not a matter of being 'upset'. It's a simple matter of stupidity - it would be stupid of us, as a species, to be the instruments of our own destruction. After all - we, alone, have the advantage of knowing and comprehending our own extinction, and how we will make it happen. Mammoths weren't made extinct by stupidity. Even Dodos weren't killed by stupidity. We're poised to garner ourselves a rather questionable unique reputation.

Looking at humanity's very self-destructive and ridiculously violent past (and present, and foreseeable future), I don't think you make too strong of a point here...

Why? We should charge to the brink of extinction simply because we always have?

[The Imperial Navy]

We don't need to be "entirely sure how much". The evidence says there is some anthropogenic contribution, which means there is some contribution we make that we could not make.

I also find it amusing that most of us will actually do anything about it. If we were so righteous about global warming, we'd turn off our PC's, restrict how much electric we use, get rid of our cars, start turning industrial areas back into farmland, and all the other things that would make our lives "Safer."

Instead we increase prices so the poor cannot afford to even keep themselves warm. Even Mr. Gore continues to fly by Private Jet.

[Tubbsalot]

I just don't hold a particularly grim view of the situation. Perhaps I'm more optimistic than you

What's your opinion on the Holocaust, out of curiosity?

[Lauchlin]

I also find it amusing that most of us will actually do anything about it. If we were so righteous about global warming, we'd turn off our PC's, restrict how much electric we use, get rid of our cars, start turning industrial areas back into farmland, and all the other things that would make our lives "Safer."

A lot of people do limit the electricity they use, and more and more people are using public transportation or other methods to get around.