Why is health care a business?

[The Bleeding Roses]

Simple, because it can be.

[Norstal]

Yes. /thread

Ever heard of the ecnomic principle of their is no such thing as a free lunch?

There is free lunch...with a purchase of one large drink.

Back on topic, healthcare isn't a right. Just like food, health must be worked for.
Conditions that affects health, on the other hand, is a right. Everyone has the right to breathe clean air.

[Greed and Death]

Ever heard of the ecnomic principle of their is no such thing as a free lunch?

There is free lunch...with a purchase of one large drink.

The strip clubs have free lunch buffet sometimes.

[Norstal]

There is free lunch...with a purchase of one large drink.

The strip clubs have free lunch buffet sometimes.

Free buffet on a strip club eh

[Wolffbaden]

It's never solved one problem or accomplished anything important or anything like that? Really now? Well I guess the interstate highway system means absolutely nothing.

The interstate highway system is good.

So it did accomplish something after all. Well that makes your original "point" meaningless.

All consumer protection laws do is limit the products available to us. It's ridiculous hand holding.

Not really, they just guarantee you're treated fairly and honestly and give you more transparent rights (see the respective Collection Practices Act, Credit Reporting Act, Truth in Lending Act, and Credit Billing Act- among others).

violate property rights.

Nope. Otherwise, the Supreme Court would have struck it down. Which it has yet to do. And thank god, too, lest we go through more segregationist BS.

workplace safety was improving before the government did anything about it.

Really now? Because as I recall, the United States was still using child labor when the federal government started tackling the issue of workers' rights and safety back in 1893 following the passage of the Safety Appliance Act.

Yeah, it's strange how many businesses want to kill their customers.

Or just don't give a damn one way or the other so long as people buy their products- particularly when they are given a position of importance where they have the luxury of being able to sacrifice the quality of their products (as used to be the case with the basic life necessities such as food and water; read "The Jungle" sometime, kiddo, or do some research on why the Meat Inspection Act was created in the first place).

Ok, a few things.

Not including regulation of business cycles to partially control the natural bust and boom economic cycles we undergo, deposit insurance, social security, Medicare, housing authorities, the creation of the most versatile and successful military on the face of the earth, expansion into the west, the creation of the National Weather service, its innumerable poverty support policies, the recently passed health care reform bill expanding coverage to 45 million Americans without any . . . I can go on.

A few things mainly led by the people demanding it.

Citation. You have a habit of posting bunk claims without ever giving any citations.

It has failed at the big issues.

Such as? It hasn't, this is just part of a growing stereotype that federal governments are always doomed to be bumbling fools. It's not based off anything more than a few selective anecdotes and myths surrounding them. Government programs that work contradict those who are against the federal government's contention that ultimately the system is always bad and always screws things up. Not that this means anything to the simpletons who spread this kind of BS, of course.

No.

Then why did you claim that "...your government has failed to solve any problem it has set out to solve"?

I'm not a kid.

Sure, son; sure.

I argued how a private road network could work, and that such a network would not be funded by everyone through coercion. And it would respect property rights.

You argued that a private system would be superior to the current federal system in the end- propagating not only your horse crap about the federal government always failing to solve the problems the country encounters but also your fantasies about privatization and free markets.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=67061

Are you going to deny that capitalism is the best wealth creation tool out there?

I'm calling it out on what it is: a baseless, opinionated claim. AND furthermore pointing out what your ckised mindset always is and always has been here on NS.

I have never said that business are always good. It was I, who pointed out BP's bad safety record.

Actually, you tried to defend them by saying that nonexistent environmental protection and safety legislation passed by the government had forced them to drill farther out to sea "where it is more dangerous" in this thread:

You realize that environmental protection legislation pushed them out to sea to drill where it is more dangerous right?

Searching through your posts, I have yet to find one mentioning BP in which you pointed out a bad safety record for BP. The closest thing was one where you said they should have to pay some compensation for all the damage done in the gulf, otherwise, you've subtly defended them. In another thread, you said you felt sorry for BP and said that they were the victim in all this... and yes, you tried to get in a jab at the government yet again. How... unsurprising.

Someone who is responsible for a situation occurring cannot be the victim of the situation, even if they are harmed, by definition.

Unless they intentionally did it, they are a victim.

Victim: A person who suffers injury, loss, or death as a result of a voluntary undertaking: You are a victim of your own scheming.

A corporation is simply a group of people.

Unless they intentionally did it, they are a victim.

Victim: A person who suffers injury, loss, or death as a result of a voluntary undertaking: You are a victim of your own scheming.

A corporation is simply a group of people.[/quote]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=52165&p=2178812#p2178812

And then there's your other post trying to compare the families this incident with BP affected to "millions of families that suffered at the hands of the government" in a similar thread- speaking in rhetoric earlier about how you could always fix the problem of a bad business no matter what but never a bad government/politicians.

Just like the millions of families that suffered at the hands of government. "At least we voted them out of office," they said in that case.

You have unhealthy obsessions: everlasting hate for the government, undying love for capitalism.

It's a bit like your nonsensical belief that inflation is a form of taxation the government imposes on us:

EDIT:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=61165&start=250
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=61236

I have provided examples of other bad businesses as well.

Point some of them out to us.

The point is, the majority of business are good. The majority of bills with good intentions, create unintended consequences that are far worse than the problems it tries to solve in the first place.

Try not to lend confirmation of any kind to your opponent's argument, in the future. This is just confirming what I was saying earlier about you sticking your neck out for businesses and the system of capitalism.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

Because it can make money.

Which is why BUPA can still operate in the UK even with a NHS system.

[Militsia]

Do we need government for free health care?

Nothing is every truly free. If something is provided without charge to you then you eighter pay for it some other way (e.g. free complimentary soda with your meal) or somebody else is paying for it (e.g. radio with advertising). So healthcare will never be free, if you don't pay for your healthcare then someone else is paying for it.

In a free society everybody should have equal access to buy the healthcare services they want without paying for someone elses healthcare services.

[Trippoli]

You missed the point of the link.

The USPS was committed to services other private businesses were not committed to. Such as delivering to small rural areas that do not deliver "profit".

The perks that a government program has is it will deliver maximum service to as muchmany people as it can, rather than serve a bulk of people and ignore others that can not deliver the goods. In other words, the Government isn't out for profit, yet it still is more committed. Try reading the link next time.

Non profits and charities would cover the very poor.

Thanks for the one liner. It kinda proves my point. "Charities" Hahaha, No, Bullshit.

[MisanthropicPopulism]

Non profits and charities would cover the very poor.

Thanks for the one liner. It kinda proves my point. "Charities" Hahaha, No, Bullshit.

But without taxes, people will send all the extra money they are getting straight to charities!

EDIT: The forum FINALLY applied an auto-limiter to quotes. Took them long e-fucking-nough.

[Jervak]

The same people who scream about the intrusive power of big government want to give private insurance companies infinite access to our personal lives in order to determine what to charge us for insurance.

Further, a healthful lifestyle is no guarantee of avoiding catastrophic medical problems. Healthy people have accidents. People enjoying healthful outdoor activities can contract Lyme disease. Healthful fruits and vegetables can be contaminated with E. coli bacteria. Healthful people can be exposed to deadly pollutants such as asbestos, which causes mesothelioma, and not know it.

Besides America has a private health care system… And its still the fattest one in the G20.

[Militsia]

The same people who scream about the intrusive power of big government want to give private insurance companies infinite access to our personal lives in order to determine what to charge us for insurance.

Further, a healthful lifestyle is no guarantee of avoiding catastrophic medical problems. Healthy people have accidents. People enjoying healthful outdoor activities can contract Lyme disease. Healthful fruits and vegetables can be contaminated with E. coli bacteria. Healthful people can be exposed to deadly pollutants such as asbestos, which causes mesothelioma, and not know it.

Besides America has a private health care system… And its still the fattest one in the G20.

I do not want to give insurance company access to your health information. It is a matter that is between you and the insurance company, which is a relationship that should not concern the lawmakers.

[Caninope]

The same people who scream about the intrusive power of big government want to give private insurance companies infinite access to our personal lives in order to determine what to charge us for insurance.

Further, a healthful lifestyle is no guarantee of avoiding catastrophic medical problems. Healthy people have accidents. People enjoying healthful outdoor activities can contract Lyme disease. Healthful fruits and vegetables can be contaminated with E. coli bacteria. Healthful people can be exposed to deadly pollutants such as asbestos, which causes mesothelioma, and not know it.

Besides America has a private health care system… And its still the fattest one in the G20.

I'd say it's the fattest one because of the large amounts of meat consumed in America, along with fast food.

[DaWoad]

Do we need government for free health care?

Nothing is every truly free. If something is provided without charge to you then you eighter pay for it some other way (e.g. free complimentary soda with your meal) or somebody else is paying for it (e.g. radio with advertising). So healthcare will never be free, if you don't pay for your healthcare then someone else is paying for it.

In a free society everybody should have equal access to buy the healthcare services they want without paying for someone elses healthcare services.

You realize health insurance makes "other people pay for your health-care" the same way public health care does do you not?

[My Brand]

The problem with healthcare being a business is that the people who need it the most won't be able to afford it. It works great for those who can afford it, and they'll surely support free market healthcare. But if you're not able to afford it, what good is it to you? If you're born into a poor family with a genetic disease that requires treatment, or if you have an accident, what good is free market healthcare going to be to you?

Insurance companies are going to cut costs as much as they can, wherever they can. Perhaps there will be some cheap healthcare this way. But it's going to come at reduced quality as well, and a big "FUCK YOU" if you have a preexisting condition. It's easy enough to dismiss opposition to healthcare as a business if you can afford adequate coverage and do not have a preexisting condition that an insurance company could potentially use to screw you over. It's easy enough to care less about the less fortunate.

What really amazes me is that people think that the US should try to go this route, when there are countries with universal coverage that are doing just fine with it. Take a look around the world. Learn from it.

[Caninope]

The problem with healthcare being a business is that the people who need it the most won't be able to afford it. It works great for those who can afford it, and they'll surely support free market healthcare. But if you're not able to afford it, what good is it to you? If you're born into a poor family with a genetic disease that requires treatment, or if you have an accident, what good is free market healthcare going to be to you?

Insurance companies are going to cut costs as much as they can, wherever they can. Perhaps there will be some cheap healthcare this way. But it's going to come at reduced quality as well, and a big "FUCK YOU" if you have a preexisting condition. It's easy enough to dismiss opposition to healthcare as a business if you can afford adequate coverage and do not have a preexisting condition that an insurance company could potentially use to screw you over. It's easy enough to care less about the less fortunate.

What really amazes me is that people think that the US should try to go this route, when there are countries with universal coverage that are doing just fine with it. Take a look around the world. Learn from it.

The problem is that, aside from costs, we are doing about as fine with our system.

[Burtonea]

Do we need government for free health care?

No such thing as "free" healthcare. You pay for it through taxes, or, more commonly, force someone with more money to pay for it.

[DaWoad]

The problem with healthcare being a business is that the people who need it the most won't be able to afford it. It works great for those who can afford it, and they'll surely support free market healthcare. But if you're not able to afford it, what good is it to you? If you're born into a poor family with a genetic disease that requires treatment, or if you have an accident, what good is free market healthcare going to be to you?

Insurance companies are going to cut costs as much as they can, wherever they can. Perhaps there will be some cheap healthcare this way. But it's going to come at reduced quality as well, and a big "FUCK YOU" if you have a preexisting condition. It's easy enough to dismiss opposition to healthcare as a business if you can afford adequate coverage and do not have a preexisting condition that an insurance company could potentially use to screw you over. It's easy enough to care less about the less fortunate.

What really amazes me is that people think that the US should try to go this route, when there are countries with universal coverage that are doing just fine with it. Take a look around the world. Learn from it.

The problem is that, aside from costs, we are doing about as fine with our system.

Costs more and your healthcare is worse than other countries with public care (see Canada for similar geography eating habits and culture with a different medical system and better overall care for lower cost per person).

[Militsia]

Nothing is every truly free. If something is provided without charge to you then you eighter pay for it some other way (e.g. free complimentary soda with your meal) or somebody else is paying for it (e.g. radio with advertising). So healthcare will never be free, if you don't pay for your healthcare then someone else is paying for it.

In a free society everybody should have equal access to buy the healthcare services they want without paying for someone elses healthcare services.

You realize health insurance makes "other people pay for your health-care" the same way public health care does do you not?

And that is fine, as long as people are free to not have a health insurance or decide what sort of coverage you want on the insurance.