NationStates

I don't know if this thread was already make, but I'll share this news report anyways

Pope Francis on Wednesday branded couples who adopt pets instead of children as "selfish" as part of a call to resolve the "demographic winter" that the West faces.

The pope addressed a general audience on the topic of parenthood and called on people to have more children as the West faces a declining population.

The pandemic, in particular, saw a sharp decline, with the U.S. alone recording a 7% drop in the national birthrate in 2020, UPI reported.

"Today… we see a form of selfishness," the pope said. "We see that some people do not want to have a child. Sometimes they have one, and that’s it, but they have dogs and cats that take the place of children."

He urged any couple that can’t have children to instead adopt, pointing to Joseph, the "foster father" of Jesus, as an example of the "highest forms of love" that people can attain.

"How many children in the world are waiting for someone to take care of them!" he said. He insisted that the process of adoption must also become easier to allow more people the option.

"It is a risk, yes: having a child is always a risk, either naturally or by adoption," the pope explained. "But it is riskier not to have them. It is riskier to deny fatherhood, or to deny motherhood, be it real or spiritual. But denial, a man or woman who do not develop the sense of fatherhood or motherhood, they are lacking something, something fundamental, something important."

The pope is not known to have any pets at his Vatican residence, but his predecessor, Benedict XVI, had cats, according to the AFP.

The pope also called for the church to pursue a more open embrace of the "people of God" instead of putting priests "on a pedestal." He is currently presiding over a two-year consultation of the Catholic laity around the globe to understand the needs and desires of ordinary faithful and how the church can better serve them.

Source

What does NSG think of this?

Honestly, I’m comfortable with my kitty. She’s calm, very lovable and does her own thing. I’d rather be the local Crazy Cat Man than have kids, and be crazy. I don’t feel ready to have them.
Plus, the Pope should not be commanding how someone should live. He’s a religious leader, not a politician.

My two cats would love a human child to play with.

Alas, I am single, so they will not know the joy. And I don't see the pope setting me up here.

New Ulsan wrote:What does NSG think of this?

What do you think of it?

Well Mr. Pope, are you gonna fix the income problems?

The New California Republic wrote:

New Ulsan wrote:What does NSG think of this?

What do you think of it?

Well, honestly I’m comfortable with my kitty. She’s calm, very lovable and does her own thing. I’d rather be the local Crazy Cat Man than have kids, and be crazy. I don’t feel ready to have them.
Plus, the Pope should not be commanding how someone should live. He’s a religious leader, not a politician.

Some people aren’t meant to have children, for some they won’t be able to handle them.

So it’s really not selfish for people to choose not to have children. I more than likely will not have children, why? Well because I want to be the uncle that gets the benefits of having kids and spoiling them all but being able to hand them off after awhile

I'll listen to his opinion on having kids when he has some.

New Ulsan wrote:I don't know if this thread was already make, but I'll share this news report anyways

He’s a religious leader, not a politician.

He kinda is a politician, but to the church not to the world. He can support that but honestly, pets are fine, pets do like companions tho.......

Thermodolia wrote:Some people aren’t meant to have children, for some they won’t be able to handle them.

So it’s really not selfish for people to choose not to have children. I more than likely will not have children, why? Well because I want to be the uncle that gets the benefits of having kids and spoiling them all but being able to hand them off after awhile

Exactly. In my case, I'd love to have kids, I love being around kids and I'm great with them especially older children and teens. But I am deathly terrified that if I did I'd fuck them up awfully.

Thermodolia wrote:Some people aren’t meant to have children, for some they won’t be able to handle them.

So it’s really not selfish for people to choose not to have children. I more than likely will not have children, why? Well because I want to be the uncle that gets the benefits of having kids and spoiling them all but being able to hand them off after awhile

I have that attitude too, (I do not have any, my two brothers did and damn that scared me off) but if we all thought that way there would be no uncles either. They had to suffer for me to get that benefit.
I mean I am a hypocrite but I see where the Pope is coming from here. Humanity is risking extinction.

Of course that is they way of things, but the world’s attitude of putting short term pleasure and money over the long term is sending us into a spiral of doom. Not just on this. And I am contributing to that spiral of doom. But I do actually feel bad about it. Not enough to do enough. Not enough to suffer what my brothers did. But I am not capable of the necessary doublethink to not feel cognitive dissonance and regret.
I am a horrible person, I hate myself but I cling to the fact I believe I am honest about it.

GENSOC wrote:Exactly. In my case, I'd love to have kids, I love being around kids and I'm great with them especially older children and teens. But I am deathly terrified that if I did I'd fuck them up awfully.

face your fears man, and if you do feel like you are failing just give em a bb gun, some cans, and a fence post, then they don't care.

Sure...as soon as he knows anything about how hard and expensive it is to raise kids. Some people do not want children, he needs to get over it. Oh and maybe, just maybe, the leader of the Catholic church should not be saying anything about children considering those scandals are still ongoing and we are still dealing with the consequences of the boarding schools and terrible orphanages.

Please be polite towards Pope Francis everyone, it's fine to disagree but please mention the Holy Father with respect.

Neutraligon wrote:Sure...as soon as he knows anything about how hard and expensive it is to raise kids. Some people do not want children, he needs to get over it. Oh and maybe, just maybe, the leader of the Catholic church should not be saying anything about children considering those scandals are still ongoing.

got a point

Dude I can't even afford a pet deposit and you want me to have actual human kids?
Pope has reached peak Boomer.

Sundiata wrote:Please be polite towards Pope Francis everyone, it's fine to disagree but please mention the Holy Father with respect.

No.

Genivaria wrote:Dude I can't even afford a pet deposit and you want me to have actual human kids?
Pope has reached peak Boomer.

HEY!
He is apart of the silent generation! Don't you DARE misgeneration the pope!

Why's the heading in quotation marks, for a start?

On a more serious note, it's significantly much more expensive to raise a child (or multiple) these days, if I'm not mistaken.

-Astoria- wrote:Why's the heading in quotation marks, for a start?

On a more serious note, it's significantly much more expensive to raise a child (or multiple) these days, if I'm not mistaken.

The user is quoting a news article

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of old people telling me to do things they've made unaffordable and I'm looking forward to the funeral boom.

Spokesland wrote:

GENSOC wrote:Exactly. In my case, I'd love to have kids, I love being around kids and I'm great with them especially older children and teens. But I am deathly terrified that if I did I'd fuck them up awfully.

face your fears man, and if you do feel like you are failing just give em a bb gun, some cans, and a fence post, then they don't care.

Wildly bad idea. For one this is a .22 mag household, no BBs to be found.

GENSOC wrote:

Spokesland wrote:
face your fears man, and if you do feel like you are failing just give em a bb gun, some cans, and a fence post, then they don't care.

Wildly bad idea. For one this is a .22 mag household, no BBs to be found.

henry rifles are also nice starters

I see the ascetic in the golden palace has seen fit to lecture people on how purely seflish a decision to not have kids is, and even bemoan the demographic decline of the west while not taking into account any of the reasons why people might be having fewer kids on average to begin with.

First things first - the Pope is a hyprocite. He doesn't have children and he doesn't have to bear the financial or emotional burden of any number of children.

I have kids and I like kids. I would recommend them to anybody, but I understand why some people choose not to have them.

Broadly spekaing I don't agree with the Pope but I think I understand where he's coming from. I don't think he's taking aim at everybody, he's picking on couples that could have children.

Pets are companions but they are not family and I think it is possible to lavish too much time, money and affection on them and this seems to be increasingly common in rich countries. I'm not an animal expert but I am not convinced that cats and dogs today are much happier than cats and dogs in the past, and perhaps today overall we treat them more unnaturally than we used to. Pointing out that all that apparent effort could go to one of many unadopted children is fair enough in my opinion.

Although I understand the argument that in the developed world, parenting standards are very high and children are expensive, I guess the Pope has a global view and I guess a lot of Catholics today aren't raised to that standard in less developed parts of the world, so possibly there is also a question of is it always a valid reason or is it just an excuse? I know plenty of rich couples who still don't have kids.

To me, at the end of the day, once you introduce contraception and pensions, the real motivation for most people to have a lot of kids goes away and the most you can reasonably expect couples to have is in the 1 - 3 range.

I think the real reason for a lack of kids is FOMO and we over-value our young adulthood at the expense of our later years. It's hard to watch everybody else, even on fairly middling salaries travel the world and have a lot of fun while you're stuck at home dealing with screaming, whining parasites and you can feel your youth and beauty slipping away while you do it.

Mtwara wrote:First things first - the Pope is a hyprocite. He doesn't have children and he doesn't have to bear the financial or emotional burden of any number of children.

I have kids and I like kids. I would recommend them to anybody, but I understand why some people choose not to have them.

Broadly spekaing I don't agree with the Pope but I think I understand where he's coming from. I don't think he's taking aim at everybody, he's picking on couples that could have children.

Pets are companions but they are not family and I think it is possible to lavish too much time, money and affection on them and this seems to be increasingly common in rich countries. I'm not an animal expert but I am not convinced that cats and dogs today are much happier than cats and dogs in the past, and perhaps today overall we treat them more unnaturally than we used to. Pointing out that all that apparent effort could go to one of many unadopted children is fair enough in my opinion.

Although I understand the argument that in the developed world, parenting standards are very high and children are expensive, I guess the Pope has a global view and I guess a lot of Catholics today aren't raised to that standard in less developed parts of the world, so possibly there is also a question of is it always a valid reason or is it just an excuse? I know plenty of rich couples who still don't have kids.

To me, at the end of the day, once you introduce contraception and pensions, the real motivation for most people to have a lot of kids goes away and the most you can reasonably expect couples to have is in the 1 - 3 range.

I think the real reason for a lack of kids is FOMO and we over-value our young adulthood at the expense of our later years. It's hard to watch everybody else, even on fairly middling salaries travel the world and have a lot of fun while you're stuck at home dealing with screaming, whining parasites and you can feel your youth and beauty slipping away while you do it.

...Wow that is a lot. First why does it matter if people spend more on their pets, spend more time with their pets etc? They have decided that they do not want kids/do not want to adopt and that is none of the pope's business, particularly considering the fact, as you mentioned, that the pope knows next to nothing about raising kids (or I am guessing having pets). Also...it isn't about youth and beauty, it is about not being too old to do the things you want to do. My mom likes hiking and taking photos, but due to the weight of her equipment and the fact she is getting older, there are certain things she can not do.

Spokesland wrote:

-Astoria- wrote:Why's the heading in quotation marks, for a start?

On a more serious note, it's significantly much more expensive to raise a child (or multiple) these days, if I'm not mistaken.

The user is quoting a news article

I am aware; I just don't find it really necessary.