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Right Wing Discussion Thread VII: As Easy As Reich Two Three

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=396881

Page 431 of 495

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:19 am
by McWarlordiaTM
GB Empire.


Not biased at all.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:19 am
by Counter-Enlightenment
The East Marches wrote:
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:Daily Reminder: Franco was a traitor to the Falange and the Twenty-Seven Points.


Daily Reminder: The Falange were cucks who sucked at fighting, Franco did them a favor by infusing them with the Carlists.

Correct. I am not a Falangist, and never declared myself to be one. Simply expressing what Franco was, a double crosser.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:20 am
by The East Marches
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:

Correct. I am not a Falangist, and never declared myself to be one. Simply expressing what Franco was, a double crosser.


How was he a double crosser? The Falange had to be under his unified command in war. They willingly merged my friend. They betrayed themselves.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:21 am
by Wulfenia
The East Marches wrote:
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:Unlike de Rivera, Mussolini was executed by communist partisans.


Daily Reminder: Franco did nothing wrong


Look what time it is.

Image

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:23 am
by The United Colonies of Earth
The East Marches wrote:
The United Colonies of Earth wrote:Inverse Russian Civil War opportunity forever lost... *weeps*
But Spain isn't ruled by murdering assholes anymore. I consider that a plus.


The Spanish Civil War is one of the most interesting sections in history. I do believe that it warrants much more study than the criminally little we give it today.

I have to agree with that. There was such a whirlwind of ideologies involved in the fighting and some of them are, if for nothing more than their names and contexts, worth looking at for sure.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:24 am
by The United Colonies of Earth
Wulfenia wrote:
The East Marches wrote:
Daily Reminder: Franco did nothing wrong


Look what time it is.

Image

Eurgh, olive oil.
Wait, castor oil?
Keep that shit away from me.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:24 am
by The East Marches
Wulfenia wrote:
The East Marches wrote:
Daily Reminder: Franco did nothing wrong


Look what time it is.

Image


You wouldn't feed your old friend TEM castor oil now would you? I suppose speaking the truth does annoy the Italy lovers :^)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:24 am
by Counter-Enlightenment
The East Marches wrote:
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:Correct. I am not a Falangist, and never declared myself to be one. Simply expressing what Franco was, a double crosser.


How was he a double crosser? The Falange had to be under his unified command in war. They willingly merged my friend. They betrayed themselves.

For instance, Point #10 in Twenty-Seven Points states,

"We repudiate the capitalistic system which shows no understanding of the needs of the
people, dehumanises private property, and causes workers to be lumped together in a shapeless,
miserable mass of people who are filled with desperation. Our spiritual and national conception
of life also repudiates Marxism. We shall redirect the impetuousness of those working classes
who today are led astray by Marxism, and we shall seek to bring them into direct participation in
fulfilling the great task of the national state."

When he rose to power, Franco trumpeted that Falangism was all of a sudden perfect with Capitalism.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:25 am
by The East Marches
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:
The East Marches wrote:
How was he a double crosser? The Falange had to be under his unified command in war. They willingly merged my friend. They betrayed themselves.

For instance, Point #10 in Twenty-Seven Points states,

"We repudiate the capitalistic system which shows no understanding of the needs of the
people, dehumanises private property, and causes workers to be lumped together in a shapeless,
miserable mass of people who are filled with desperation. Our spiritual and national conception
of life also repudiates Marxism. We shall redirect the impetuousness of those working classes
who today are led astray by Marxism, and we shall seek to bring them into direct participation in
fulfilling the great task of the national state."

When he rose to power, Franco trumpeted that Falangism was all of a sudden perfect with Capitalism.


The Falangists themselves made the change. Franco's hands are clean.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:26 am
by The United Colonies of Earth
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:
The East Marches wrote:
How was he a double crosser? The Falange had to be under his unified command in war. They willingly merged my friend. They betrayed themselves.

For instance, Point #10 in Twenty-Seven Points states,

"We repudiate the capitalistic system which shows no understanding of the needs of the
people, dehumanises private property, and causes workers to be lumped together in a shapeless,
miserable mass of people who are filled with desperation. Our spiritual and national conception
of life also repudiates Marxism. We shall redirect the impetuousness of those working classes
who today are led astray by Marxism, and we shall seek to bring them into direct participation in
fulfilling the great task of the national state."

When he rose to power, Franco trumpeted that Falangism was all of a sudden perfect with Capitalism.

He must have profited off it. Or he just found it useful not to turn into a feudalist at least. What kind of economic nonsense were the falangists after? Corporatism?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:27 am
by The Princes of the Universe
The East Marches wrote:
Wulfenia wrote:Look what time it is.

You wouldn't feed your old friend TEM castor oil now would you? I suppose speaking the truth does annoy the Italy lovers :^)

Not even I would do that. :blink:

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:27 am
by Wulfenia
The V O I D wrote:The Nazis eventually take over Japan using superior technology and nukes.


This hurt my brain, a lot.

Nazi Germany would've barely (if at all) been able to hold Eastern Europe, much less occupied Siberia and launched an invasion force from there.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:27 am
by Counter-Enlightenment
The East Marches wrote:
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:For instance, Point #10 in Twenty-Seven Points states,

"We repudiate the capitalistic system which shows no understanding of the needs of the
people, dehumanises private property, and causes workers to be lumped together in a shapeless,
miserable mass of people who are filled with desperation. Our spiritual and national conception
of life also repudiates Marxism. We shall redirect the impetuousness of those working classes
who today are led astray by Marxism, and we shall seek to bring them into direct participation in
fulfilling the great task of the national state."

When he rose to power, Franco trumpeted that Falangism was all of a sudden perfect with Capitalism.


The Falangists themselves made the change. Franco's hands are clean.

Perchance that that is what happened, I am factually misinformed. When was this?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:28 am
by Counter-Enlightenment
The United Colonies of Earth wrote:
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:For instance, Point #10 in Twenty-Seven Points states,

"We repudiate the capitalistic system which shows no understanding of the needs of the
people, dehumanises private property, and causes workers to be lumped together in a shapeless,
miserable mass of people who are filled with desperation. Our spiritual and national conception
of life also repudiates Marxism. We shall redirect the impetuousness of those working classes
who today are led astray by Marxism, and we shall seek to bring them into direct participation in
fulfilling the great task of the national state."

When he rose to power, Franco trumpeted that Falangism was all of a sudden perfect with Capitalism.

He must have profited off it. Or he just found it useful not to turn into a feudalist at least. What kind of economic nonsense were the falangists after? Corporatism?

National Syndicalism.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
by Wulfenia
The East Marches wrote:
Wulfenia wrote:
Look what time it is.

Image


You wouldn't feed your old friend TEM castor oil now would you? I suppose speaking the truth does annoy the Italy lovers :^)


Nobody hates the Italians more than me.

If I had a time machine, Italy would be populated by blonde haired blue eyed Visigoths.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:30 am
by The East Marches
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:
The East Marches wrote:
The Falangists themselves made the change. Franco's hands are clean.

Perchance that that is what happened, I am factually misinformed. When was this?


After de Rivera was murdered in a dastardly act, he managed to get the Falange to vote for unification and alternation of their political goals under the guise of war time necessity. Manuel Hedilla resisted at first but later become a willing participant in the plan. My source is the Spanish Civil War by Hugh Thomas.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:31 am
by The East Marches
Wulfenia wrote:
The East Marches wrote:
You wouldn't feed your old friend TEM castor oil now would you? I suppose speaking the truth does annoy the Italy lovers :^)


Nobody hates the Italians more than me.

If I had a time machine, Italy would be populated by blonde haired blue eyed Visigoths.


That is a new level of hate tbh. You can take the title of Italy hater from me in that case.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:33 am
by The United Colonies of Earth
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:
The United Colonies of Earth wrote:He must have profited off it. Or he just found it useful not to turn into a feudalist at least. What kind of economic nonsense were the falangists after? Corporatism?

National Syndicalism.

Ah. I'm not quite familiar with syndicalism but I did hit Wikipedia for a bit of data. So workers would be organized to manage themselves under the auspices of the state for the greater good?
Wulfenia wrote:
The East Marches wrote:
You wouldn't feed your old friend TEM castor oil now would you? I suppose speaking the truth does annoy the Italy lovers :^)


Nobody hates the Italians more than me.

If I had a time machine, Italy would be populated by blonde haired blue eyed Visigoths.

Easy, just give the goths nukes when Justinian comes.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:34 am
by The United Colonies of Earth
Wulfenia wrote:
The V O I D wrote:The Nazis eventually take over Japan using superior technology and nukes.


This hurt my brain, a lot.

Nazi Germany would've barely (if at all) been able to hold Eastern Europe, much less occupied Siberia and launched an invasion force from there.

Maybe in a thousand years to expand their dream Reich. But this is all a hypothetical as unlikely as me not looking at porn.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:35 am
by Counter-Enlightenment
The United Colonies of Earth wrote:
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:National Syndicalism.

Ah. I'm not quite familiar with syndicalism but I did hit Wikipedia for a bit of data. So workers would be organized to manage themselves under the auspices of the state for the greater good?

http://national-revolutionary.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/concept-of-national-syndicalism.html

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:37 am
by FelrikTheDeleted
McWarlordiaTM wrote:GB Empire.


Not biased at all.


How so?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:53 am
by Wulfenia
The East Marches wrote:
Wulfenia wrote:
Nobody hates the Italians more than me.

If I had a time machine, Italy would be populated by blonde haired blue eyed Visigoths.


That is a new level of hate tbh. You can take the title of Italy hater from me in that case.


H.P. Lovecraft said nothing wrong.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:06 am
by Wulfenia
The East Marches wrote:
Wulfenia wrote:
That's funny, I don't remember Emmanuel saying that when he made Mussolini Prime Minister and the MVSN showed themselves to be the most competent anti-Communist force in Italy.


They really like the Catholic church and hate anything that isn't a monarchy. You should show them the deal with the Pope and approve of the King documents. That ought to get them on your side.


Why would I show them something that should never have happened?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:12 am
by The East Marches
Wulfenia wrote:
The East Marches wrote:
They really like the Catholic church and hate anything that isn't a monarchy. You should show them the deal with the Pope and approve of the King documents. That ought to get them on your side.


Why would I show them something that should never have happened?


To rub salt in the wound of their worldview of course

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:13 am
by The United Colonies of Earth
Counter-Enlightenment wrote:
The United Colonies of Earth wrote:Ah. I'm not quite familiar with syndicalism but I did hit Wikipedia for a bit of data. So workers would be organized to manage themselves under the auspices of the state for the greater good?

http://national-revolutionary.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/concept-of-national-syndicalism.html

Hmm...so I'm reading this and...
National-Syndicalism suggests that the people of the European nations defend themselves through the development of Syndicalist sections into massive economic worker movements. These should take immediate action to expropriate the capitalists. These should also take immediate action to let the workers lead the production and to form peoples communes.
So radicalized UAW which goes to the Big Three headquarters, smashes the place up, and hacks their bank accounts and steals all their money?
Just putting this in an American context.
And simultaneously, they form political communities which determine what they do at their jobs. Hmm. Sounds too revolutionary to me already. Namely the "immediate...expropriate...capitalists" part. But whatever, let's carry on.

The French revolutionary Syndicalism originated in the reality of the former unions. The theory was later derived from this practice. The former Revolutionary Syndicalism took place as a protest that originated from the bitterness that came from the bourgeoisation of the Socialist movements. It doesn’t wish the conquest of State power, but the complete annihilation of the State and the transfer of administrative functions to the union movement.
Wait a second.
Yeah, I know the French Socialist Party isn't getting shot to death by le Pen's mooks in Paris. And in response to the socs quitting for the parliament house you guys...decided that instead you want the unions, which stayed radical I presume, to become the state. The Weberian state, the one which says "In this land, all capitalists are robbed and executed by me and me only, and anyone else who does it gets executed too!"
So when the french decided they wanted unions to rule the country everyone said "good idea, let's have the unions rule the country too...NAZIONALSYNDIKALISMUS, VEREIGNIGT EUCH!"

National-Syndicalism seeks out principled reasons for direct economic action and denounces parliamentary action by representatives. It’s not about the “success” of the moment, but about the expropriation of the capitalist class and the liberation of the people and the nation. Immediate action strengthens the spirit of struggle and sacrifice. It strengthens the individual conscience, while leaving it up to the representatives or the trade union bosses who will only let the Dutch people live on in their indifference. The goal is not to make capitalism bearable, but the realisation of a free Nationalist and Socialist nation.
So you guys seek out principled reasons for direct economic action. You're too impatient for something indirectly decided. If someone's gonna make the airplanes to bomb the capitalists they'll be the same ones who said to do it. And of course, constantly doing something makes you more habituated to the mindset associated with it. Until it becomes background noise and you do it as a mindless habit.
And your reach is not merely for a milder, softer world but for something many have roundly called "nirvana". Okay. I mean, without dreams we would all be turds living in peasantry. Or dead. Or never born. One of a zillion possibilities still.
But what does "while leaving it up to the representatives or the trade union bosses who will only let the Dutch people live on in their indifference" mean exactly? Is it badly translated?
The philosophical basis of National-Syndicalism is the insight that man is influenced by impulses rather than by considerations. National-Syndicalism wishes to organize the movement in such a way that the activity and impulsiveness of personality will find a good feeding ground. It involves the ongoing and irreconcilable struggle against the capitalist system, the capitalist State and its instruments of power.

So...you intend to exploit impulsivity and to act on impulses rather than thinking things out in the long term. That's why mankind has fallen into the situation where you guys come to exist in the first place. Everyone except this one brilliant guy was an impulsive asshole, and now we have syndicalists seeking to burn it all down.
It's silly to expect anything less really. Too much long-term and you end up inflexible, too little and you end up flying face-first into Custer's Last Stand. Ask Custer, oh wait he's dead leeel. But you guys lie on the too-little end imo...nvm.
And impulses are best exploited in a confusing and combative situation, like constantly fighting capitalism quite literally. Lovely.
The contrast between federalism and centralism is an “eternal” contrast, which comes back time and time again and in different forms. No community can exist when everything is regulated from one central point. Of course neither centralism, nor the freedom of parts is possible in the extreme consequence. The question is whether you wish control from a central point or whether you wish to maximize the freedom and self-determination as a necessity. We can acknowledge without objection that the autonomy of units comes with a certain danger. But out of centralism comes a bigger and more serious danger. The fundament of federalism is “connection”. So we’re not talking about splintered parts but about an organic whole of cooperating autonomous units within the nation. These units will voluntarily sacrifice a part of their own self-determination.
*subject whiplash* Whoa boy, hang on there!
Okay, so federalism and centralism. Eternal contrast...yeah. It's not necessarily possible or feasible to attempt to totalize, or to establish some real anarchy of the Independent Republic of Himself. Yep.
So they call for the dichotomy to be established as between utilitarian...liberty and totalization. Fair enough.
Next sentence: fair enough. Same for the next one.
I suppose you could say that about federalism. It is after all...a bunch of groups free to do their thing but united together all the same. And yes, an organic whole. What's the difference between that and...inorganic wholes? Are organic wholes established by authority figures who are free of GMOs and approved by syndicalism? Sorry for the comedy, but...yep. Federalism is voluntary.
No person can develop itself without receiving and giving to its people and its nation. Sorel thought us that with centralisation bureaucracy inevitably grows. Any centralisation that goes to far, every opportunist contempt for the self-development of the components, leads to rigidity and conservatism. From this statement we can draw the simple conclusion that who’s a revolutionary, can only be a federalist.

Sounds like translating from Ghibalbian in the Imperial days there, leeel. "itself"
True, unless you're feral. Human society is an effort dependent on everyone inside.
And if Sorel taught us that bureaucracy rises with centralization I assume he would have wanted Independent Republics of Himself and His Family to limit the bureaucracy? And wait- what the fuck how does that follow? I guess it does if "revolutionaries" are redefined to exclude totalitarians and other centralizers, yeah...
National-Syndicalism aims to move the attention from the political terrain to the economic terrain. It wants the socialisation from the basis: a system of distribution from local units, in consultation with the National federation, on the fundament of a production and consumption statistic. As well as the organisation of the production by national industrial federations.
That's a failed effort, because politics is the manipulation of economic units to decide how they'll be organized. Syncretizing them will lead to happy times for the public obviously.
Socialization from the basis...wat? Everything will be owned by a collective of people from top to bottom? The country, collectively owned to the last and tiniest factories?
And a system of distribution from local units in consultation with the federation on the fundament of a production and consumption statistic. Does this mean everyone's surplus gets reassigned to those who have none?
National-Syndicalism is primarily a warning against the bourgeoisation of Nationalism and Socialism. It has brought the spiritual factor of will, the meaning of the psychological element in the Nationalist and Socialist struggle, to the front. National-Syndicalism offers rejuvenation with the elements of impulse, rebellion, desire for freedom, identity and respect for ones people and homeland which is permanently needed.
Well. I have no opinion on it being a "warning" that's exactly positive or negative. Seems more like pissed-off workers going off and saying "I'll found my own socialist state! With Unions ruling everyone, blackjack, federalism and hookers! For the good of the nation!"
I assume that it has if "will" is being permanently at odds with your enemies for all eternity until they are destroyed. Though I worry that you guys might fold under the pressure of war.
Rejuvenation, huh? Okay...
-impulse does not seem conducive to anything long-lasting or resembling itself, as it will flop around on the slightest change in the winds, and you will need to redirect it to keep this thing natsynd
-rebellion does not seem helpful to the above either unless you keep saying "REBEL AGAINST DA KAPITALISTUS" all the time.
-desire for freedom, huh? I like freedom. What will this freedom mean in natsynd wonderland? This is so complicated I might have to create a nation on NS to experiment with it all.
-Identity. I like identity. I like individuality especially. How will this work out exactly? Will everyone express their identities freely as they work together to make a glorious worker's syndicate for the nation?
-Respect for one's people and homeland. I've been suspicious of this thing. Seems more often than not an excuse to oppress the fuck out of anything new and strange because it's not "respectful enough". Lessen my suspicions.

Suspect ideology. If they didn't seem so intent on blasting down everyone who's not a manual worker I'd have more sympathy to them.
FelrikTheDeleted wrote:
McWarlordiaTM wrote:GB Empire.


Not biased at all.


How so?

Apparently there's only some objective goodness in wanting to revive the British Empire.
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