Work on Dakota Access Pipeline halted (For Now)

[Gig em Aggies]

they can explore alternate routes all they want but the government cant force them to pick a new route otherwise it be government encroachment into private business affairs which I don't want if a new route should happen it should be talked between the pipeline owners and the people who might be affected by the pipeline not the government or veterans or others who came to the site from elsewhere,

I understand not wanting the government to encroach into private business affairs, but the pipeline is illegal. The government needs to force them to reroute it out of Native American territory. There are laws that prohibit anyone from doing things on Native American territory without meeting with the elders first.

why do you people keep thinking its going through the stupid reservation when its not. look at this map below it comes close but never onto the Standing Rock reservation now shut up about it being illegal and it being on reservation lands when its not.

[The Grene Knyght]

"nope your wrong if the pipeline was illegal then it wouldn't have been built at all" that's a tad naive don't you think?
And even if the protesters don't own the land, don't you think their concerns were completely valid? And furthermore I recall that the right to protest is, in fact, a legal right, so I think they did have a legal right to oppose the construction.

1.) its not naïve to say if it was actually illegal then it would not have been built
2. their concerns are valid but they waited until the last minute to do something which wont help them in the end
3. I never said anything about not being able to use their constitutional right to protest now listen carefully I said "this is wrong the native Americans do not own the land the pipeline is being built on so the company who's building it doesn't need permission from the reservation who has no legal authority over the construction"

1: it's definitely naive
2: they didn't wait until the last minute, and even if they did, it doesn't matter, because their concerns are still valid.
3: I read what you said. Re-read what I said in that context and try to keep a civil tone.

[North Tandua]

Check this out http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/04/us/federal-officials-to-explore-different-route-for-dakota-pipeline.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

[Gig em Aggies]

Check this out http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/04/us/federal-officials-to-explore-different-route-for-dakota-pipeline.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

doesn't mean anything but their looking into alternate routes to provide the company with another option if they so choose the government cant force them to pick an alternate route either

[Valrifell]

I understand not wanting the government to encroach into private business affairs, but the pipeline is illegal. The government needs to force them to reroute it out of Native American territory. There are laws that prohibit anyone from doing things on Native American territory without meeting with the elders first.

why do you people keep thinking its going through the stupid reservation when its not. look at this map below it comes close but never onto the Standing Rock reservation now shut up about it being illegal and it being on reservation lands when its not.

It cuts through a river which just so happens to be the primary watersource for the tribe (from what I know) a leak would be catastrophic for the natives on the reservation.

[North Tandua]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/04/us/federal-officials-to-explore-different-route-for-dakota-pipeline.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

[Farnhamia]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/04/us/federal-officials-to-explore-different-route-for-dakota-pipeline.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

You posted that once already. I posted it half an hour ago.

[Blue Pinkerton]

A (perhaps temporary) victory for indigenous Americans. Cannot stop the advocacy for indigenous peoples' land back, however.

[Dytarma]

I feel proud for what they did. Even though they got punishment, they did it. Now we need it to end.

[Geilinor]

1.) its not naïve to say if it was actually illegal then it would not have been built
2. their concerns are valid but they waited until the last minute to do something which wont help them in the end
3. I never said anything about not being able to use their constitutional right to protest now listen carefully I said "this is wrong the native Americans do not own the land the pipeline is being built on so the company who's building it doesn't need permission from the reservation who has no legal authority over the construction"

1: it's definitely naive
2: they didn't wait until the last minute, and even if they did, it doesn't matter, because their concerns are still valid.
3: I read what you said. Re-read what I said in that context and try to keep a civil tone.

The pipeline is not illegal. It is controversial and some people are angry about it, but if they're telling you that it's illegal it isn't.

[New Axiom]

I think they should keep going, no matter how many people they make cry. Screw the protesters; their getting in the way of progress.

[Luziyca]

I think they should keep going, no matter how many people they make cry. Screw the protesters; their getting in the way of progress.

Good to know that an oil spill that contaminates drinking water is considered progress.

[Luziyca]

A (perhaps temporary) victory for indigenous Americans. Cannot stop the advocacy for indigenous peoples' land back, however.

Indeed.

I am concerned that if everybody leaves, they decided to resume construction. Until they reroute it, or scrap it, the encampment ought to stay.

[North Tandua]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/04/us/federal-officials-to-explore-different-route-for-dakota-pipeline.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

You posted that once already. I posted it half an hour ago.

Sorry, my internet is slow and I wasn't sure if it actually posted the first time.

[Blue Pinkerton]

A (perhaps temporary) victory for indigenous Americans. Cannot stop the advocacy for indigenous peoples' land back, however.

Indeed.

I am concerned that if everybody leaves, they decided to resume construction. Until they reroute it, or scrap it, the encampment ought to stay.

It better not be blown off by history like Wounded Knee. This is the biggest thing in American indigenous history in recent times.

[Gig em Aggies]

A (perhaps temporary) victory for indigenous Americans. Cannot stop the advocacy for indigenous peoples' land back, however.

Indeed.

I am concerned that if everybody leaves, they decided to resume construction. Until they reroute it, or scrap it, the encampment ought to stay.

they wont scrape the pipeline its between 89-99% complete except that one little section.

[New Axiom]

I think they should keep going, no matter how many people they make cry. Screw the protesters; their getting in the way of progress.

Good to know that an oil spill that contaminates drinking water is considered progress.

And how likely is that, exactly?

[MERIZoC]

Indeed.

I am concerned that if everybody leaves, they decided to resume construction. Until they reroute it, or scrap it, the encampment ought to stay.

It better not be blown off by history like Wounded Knee. This is the biggest thing in American indigenous history in recent times.

Just want to repeat this, because it can't be understated. Native Americans have been largely invisible until this, and no pro-native movement has made national headlines in the same way they do in Canada. This is big.

[Esternial]

Good to know that an oil spill that contaminates drinking water is considered progress. :roll:

And how likely is that, exactly?

Odd that for some measures people want complete guarantees of safety while for others they say "how likely is that?"

Odd odd odd.

Odd.

[The Grene Knyght]

1: it's definitely naive
2: they didn't wait until the last minute, and even if they did, it doesn't matter, because their concerns are still valid.
3: I read what you said. Re-read what I said in that context and try to keep a civil tone.

The pipeline is not illegal. It is controversial and some people are angry about it, but if they're telling you that it's illegal it isn't.

What point are you responding to here, exactly?

[Farnhamia]

It better not be blown off by history like Wounded Knee. This is the biggest thing in American indigenous history in recent times.

Just want to repeat this, because it can't be understated. Native Americans have been largely invisible until this, and no pro-native movement has made national headlines in the same way they do in Canada. This is big.

It's big until the third week in January and then, well, it is entirely possible for the Army Corps of ENgineers to suddenly get new directives.

[ArchMandible]

It is never going to happen because this project is over 90% completed. The people protesting it are being fools. Completely ignoring how it may well have less of an environmental impact than transporting oil by truck or rail like will happen if this pipeline didn't exist. We can be certain that Donald Trump is going to ensure that this gets completed.

Keep in mind that the pipeline is completely illegal, the government signed a treaty that said that the Native Americans owned the land, and that the government wouldn't do anything in their territory without the Native's permission.

AND that's bullshit.

It's part of the 1851 Treaty, however that treaty was respected at the time by exactly no one, including the Sioux who broke the treaty early and often by invading the territories of other tribes early and often (Which was forbidden in the terms of the treaty). This treaty was dissolved officially following the Dakota Uprising of 1862, and the conflicts involved with it.

According to the treaty of 1868, which was signed and agreed to by the Sioux, their border ended exactly at the South Dakota-North Dakota border. The region going to the Cannonball was restored to them by Grant in 1875. The pipeline is 1/2 a mile north of this border.

Legally, they have no claim to the current land at all. The only treaty that matters on the books is the treaty of 1868, which does not include the land in any measure. If you are going to claim the 1851 Treaty as the legitimate Treaty, then you run into the pesky problem that the Sioux were the first ones to break the Treaty, and had no respect for its terms at all to begin with. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander, as the saying goes.

[MERIZoC]

Just want to repeat this, because it can't be understated. Native Americans have been largely invisible until this, and no pro-native movement has made national headlines in the same way they do in Canada. This is big.

It's big until the third week in January and then, well, it is entirely possible for the Army Corps of ENgineers to suddenly get new directives.

Still gonna be way harder for them to overturn it, as its subject to scrutiny by a court. And if they try to, you can bet your ass there will still be opposition.

[Farnhamia]

It's big until the third week in January and then, well, it is entirely possible for the Army Corps of ENgineers to suddenly get new directives.

Still gonna be way harder for them to overturn it, as its subject to scrutiny by a court. And if they try to, you can bet your ass there will still be opposition.

Perhaps. I wish them luck and I certainly support them, but I'm not sanguine about the end result.

[Major-Tom]

If they could just reroute the damn thing, I'd be happy.