36 dead so far at Ghost Ship Warehouse Rave

[Gauthier]

Muh Free Stuff For "Starving Artists" 420 Blaze ACAB

This is totally the evil government's uptight fault, why do they have regulationz

"Several people died tragically in a fire. Time to mock them, the survivors, and their families by accusing them of being entitled crybabies." I'm still really confused by your conversion to the religious right. You used to be a really compassionate person that tried to think of how Jesus would actually respond to these issues. It makes me sad to be honest.

Fresh converts are always the most fanatical.

[Thermodolia]

So they didn't have the expenses or consideration to buy a few ABC extinguishers in an abandoned building with flammable material all around them?



Good job, rave planners. You just caused the death of several or more people.

Well it was technically Illegal so my guess is that they didn't want to get shut down if they followed all safety regulations

[Lunalia]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/9-killed-in-oakland-warehouse-fire-dozens-more-feared-dead/ar-AAl6lRL?li=BBnb7Kz

Saw this on the news last night and early this morning authorities expect that the death toll at a warehouse fire where a rave was taking place in Oakland, California to be as high as 40 but 9 people are confirmed dead right now. There still shifting through the structure but are cautious as the structural integrity may have been jeopardized due to the fire no word yet on the cause of the blaze.


When I heard about this I didn't expect to have anyone dying but to have possibly up to 40 people dead from this its just to much sometime. I mean going to a rave and having fun then next thing your fighting for your life inside of a building fire. This reminds me ofthe Coconut Grove fire that killed 492 people in Boston back in November of 1942.

So what do you people think?

It's things like this that are the reason I don't go to raves. Call me paranoid, but dying in a freak rave fire isn't high on my to-do list.

But in all seriousness, these raves have to buck up on their safety standards, so stuff like this doesn't happen at all.

In reading extensively about fires like this, the problem isn't generally the safety standards. The problem is when individual inspectors are so overworked that they don't have time to learn what the standards are, or to actually conduct all the tests they're supposed to, such as testing decorations to see if they're flammable. Unfortunately, that's something I don't see improving any time soon because I'm pretty sure fire inspectors are members of the bureaucracy that Trump has promised to downsize, and we need more, full time, not fewer, part time, everywhere, to truly make a difference.

The owners of places like this tend to be operating on the thinnest of shoestring budgets, and "we'll just be careful" is often used to justify, in their heads, not taking appropriate safety precautions, because being careful isn't something they have to pay for. And there's a psychological factor at work too, if people are expecting a spectacle and to have a good time, it often takes them valuable time they could be using to escape to make the mental switch from "having a good time enjoying the show" to "I need to run for my life that isn't part of the show" when a fire starts. So you have people ignoring a fire while it's small and containable and could be hit with a jacket or something to smash it out, and only realizing it's a threat when it's already grown past the point it could be contained by anything makeshift. Combine that with fire inspectors who aren't necessarily indifferent, just very poorly trained, or even indifferent or actively corrupt, and you have a recipe for disaster that doesn't really reveal itself until the disaster happens, especially since some corrupt fire inspectors don't even realize they're corrupt. "Oh, I know Joe, he's so careful, I know a fire could never happen at his place, it has to be up to code" is still corruption even if the person thinking it doesn't think of it as such.

[Zeinbrad]

Will the planners be fined or arrested?

[Gig em Aggies]

Will the planners be fined or arrested?

only if their found to be at fault for negligent homicide or negligence. but if it was completely an accident then no one will be at fault for the fire.

[Costa Fierro]

In reading extensively about fires like this, the problem isn't generally the safety standards. The problem is when individual inspectors are so overworked that they don't have time to learn what the standards are, or to actually conduct all the tests they're supposed to, such as testing decorations to see if they're flammable.

The building was still under investigation when the fire occurred. It had already received numerous complaints for other issues but it was under investigation, so it's not like authorities were not acting.

The owners of places like this tend to be operating on the thinnest of shoestring budgets, and "we'll just be careful" is often used to justify, in their heads, not taking appropriate safety precautions, because being careful isn't something they have to pay for.

I'm fairly sure the owners are not those who occupied the building, because if they allowed this illegal residency and illegal party to take place, they would be held liable. Not to mention I doubt they'd have allowed this building to become so unsafe, unless they happen to be really shitty people.

[Thermodolia]

In reading extensively about fires like this, the problem isn't generally the safety standards. The problem is when individual inspectors are so overworked that they don't have time to learn what the standards are, or to actually conduct all the tests they're supposed to, such as testing decorations to see if they're flammable.

The building was still under investigation when the fire occurred. It had already received numerous complaints for other issues but it was under investigation, so it's not like authorities were not acting.

The owners of places like this tend to be operating on the thinnest of shoestring budgets, and "we'll just be careful" is often used to justify, in their heads, not taking appropriate safety precautions, because being careful isn't something they have to pay for.

I'm fairly sure the owners are not those who occupied the building, because if they allowed this illegal residency and illegal party to take place, they would be held liable. Not to mention I doubt they'd have allowed this building to become so unsafe, unless they happen to be really shitty people.

From what information I have gathered the building in question was legally abandoned

[Costa Fierro]

From what information I have gathered the building in question was legally abandoned

Well isn't that convenient. A legally abandoned building overtaken by hipsters and turned into a tinderbox.

[Gauthier]

Will the planners be fined or arrested?

only if their found to be at fault for negligent homicide or negligence. but if it was completely an accident then no one will be at fault for the fire.

Holding a rave in a thrice-cited warehouse notorious for shit conditions isn't negligent now?

[Costa Fierro]

Holding a rave in a thrice-cited warehouse notorious for shit conditions isn't negligent now?

Who exactly can be blamed at this stage? The occupants might because they were living there illegally and turned the place into a proverbial tinderbox but they could easily say they're not responsible because it's up to the owners to ensure a building is safe. However, the building is legally abandoned.

I would not be surprised if people blame the city authorities for not shutting down it down earlier but at the same time, no one is going to announce an illegal rave to authorities because the latter will shut it down.

[Gig em Aggies]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-night-of-music-and-dance-turns-into-a-deadly-inferno-at-oakland-warehouse/ar-AAl7Nzx?li=BBnb7Kz

Update: investigators join search in Deadly Oakland Warehouse rave as the death toll rises to 33 with only 35% OT the area searched.

[Thermodolia]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-night-of-music-and-dance-turns-into-a-deadly-inferno-at-oakland-warehouse/ar-AAl7Nzx?li=BBnb7Kz

Update: investigators join search in Deadly Oakland Warehouse rave as the death toll rises to 33 with only 35% OT the area searched.

This is going to be one of the worst fires in US history

[Costa Fierro]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-night-of-music-and-dance-turns-into-a-deadly-inferno-at-oakland-warehouse/ar-AAl7Nzx?li=BBnb7Kz

Update: investigators join search in Deadly Oakland Warehouse rave as the death toll rises to 33 with only 35% OT the area searched.

This is going to be one of the worst fires in US history

Well it depends on how many are still missing. IIRC the worst fire in terms of deaths in this kind of event was the Coconut Grove Fire in Boston in 1942 that killed 492 people.

[Neo-Ixania]

It's times like these that bring out the worst in people.

It's also being reported the city's concerns were blatantly ignored too.

A probe was launched last month, but no one could get inside.

The owner of the warehouse had been cited several times also. Records show the owner not only has other properties around Oakland, but that they too have been hit with numerous complaints.

[Neo-Ixania]

This is going to be one of the worst fires in US history

Well it depends on how many are still missing. IIRC the worst fire in terms of deaths in this kind of event was the Coconut Grove Fire in Boston in 1942 that killed 492 people.

It is already being listed as the deadliest fire in Oakland's history, the deadliest event in the city since the Loma Prieta earthquake of 1989 and one of the deadliest fires in the US in the last fifty years.

Holding a rave in a thrice-cited warehouse notorious for shit conditions isn't negligent now?

Who exactly can be blamed at this stage?

The owner of the property and the organizer of the party deserve the blame.

[Gig em Aggies]

Death toll updated to 36 people firefighters had to halt search due to structural damage caused by the fire. I heard this coming from CNN & The New York Times.

[Pope Joan]

That's really sad, I hope that will never happen again.


Hopefully people won't use this to demand more entitlements that they don't deserve.

They have called off the search for bodies/survivors, because of the dangerous condition of the building. The death toll will certainly rise.

[Frank Zipper]

Well isn't that convenient. A legally abandoned building overtaken by hipsters and turned into a tinderbox.

Beards - the killer firehazard you never expected!

[The Serbian Empire]

It's times like these that bring out the worst in people.

It's also being reported the city's concerns were blatantly ignored too.

A probe was launched last month, but no one could get inside.

The owner of the warehouse had been cited several times also. Records show the owner not only has other properties around Oakland, but that they too have been hit with numerous complaints.

This could have been prevented.

[Neo-Ixania]

It's times like these that bring out the worst in people.

It's also being reported the city's concerns were blatantly ignored too.

A probe was launched last month, but no one could get inside.

The owner of the warehouse had been cited several times also. Records show the owner not only has other properties around Oakland, but that they too have been hit with numerous complaints.

This could have been prevented.

Damn straight it could've. And you just know - you just know - both the owner and the operator will get 'emselves some slimy lawyers and try to defend themselves, no matter how much the evidence mounts.

We have seen this story before.

[The Serbian Empire]

This could have been prevented.

Damn straight it could've. And you just know - you just know - both the owner and the operator will get 'emselves some slimy lawyers and try to defend themselves, no matter how much the evidence mounts.

We have seen this story before.

And knowing how the world is... they get off scot-free for the criminal but hammered in civil court.

[Neo-Ixania]

Damn straight it could've. And you just know - you just know - both the owner and the operator will get 'emselves some slimy lawyers and try to defend themselves, no matter how much the evidence mounts.

We have seen this story before.

And knowing how the world is... they get off scot-free for the criminal but hammered in civil court.

They need to get the max amount of hammering possible. Both deliberately ignored the issues at hand, allowing 36 (and counting) people to lose their lives needlessly.

[Alvecia]

And knowing how the world is... they get off scot-free for the criminal but hammered in civil court.

They need to get the max amount of hammering possible. Both deliberately ignored the issues at hand, allowing 36 (and counting) people to lose their lives needlessly.

No, see, this is all according to plan. Now the free market will ensure that nobody goes to their raves again and nobody will die next time until the next time *nods*

[Ethel mermania]

Damn straight it could've. And you just know - you just know - both the owner and the operator will get 'emselves some slimy lawyers and try to defend themselves, no matter how much the evidence mounts.

We have seen this story before.

And knowing how the world is... they get off scot-free for the criminal but hammered in civil court.

Very possibly, yes.

[Setgavarius]

They need to get the max amount of hammering possible. Both deliberately ignored the issues at hand, allowing 36 (and counting) people to lose their lives needlessly.

No, see, this is all according to plan. Now the free market will ensure that nobody goes to their raves again and nobody will die next time until the next time *nods*

because losing moneyz is the perfect penalty to levy against the wealthy when confronted with suits due to their failure to self-regulate