Sugar tax: Doctors call for sweet drink levy

[Blue Pinkerton]

I would support it, but I'm more interested in regulating corporations that sell water at exorbitant prices. If water became cheaper, or free for people, I would be less reluctant to raise the tax.
Alternatively, don't raise the tax rates that puts lower-income individuals at a greater disadvantage.

[Costa Fierro]

I would support it, but I'm more interested in regulating corporations that sell water at exorbitant prices.

So you would put taxes on companies that sell bottled water? Are you aware of a device called a tap?

If water became cheaper, or free for people, I would be less reluctant to raise the tax.

That would depend on who runs any given urban area's water. Locally we pay rates for water usage but other councils in New Zealand (using local relevance here) don't charge for water usage at all. I'm not sure about Australia but I imagine it might be similar or it might not be, given water usage in a few places can be a bit controversial.

Alternatively, don't raise the tax rates that puts lower-income individuals at a greater disadvantage.

Well no, which is what sugar taxes would do. Punitive taxes are designed to discourage consumption and doing so with sugar isn't necessary. Rather removing sales taxes on healthy food would work a lot better because it makes fruit and vegetables a lot cheaper.

[Blue Pinkerton]

I would support it, but I'm more interested in regulating corporations that sell water at exorbitant prices.

So you would put taxes on companies that sell bottled water? Are you aware of a device called a tap?

If the infrastructure for water is lacking or contaminated, there's no other choice that people have.

[Costa Fierro]

If the infrastructure for water is lacking or contaminated, there's no other choice that people have.

Not every country is third world or is negligent towards maintenance of their infrastructure.

[USS Monitor]

So you would put taxes on companies that sell bottled water? Are you aware of a device called a tap?

If the infrastructure for water is lacking or contaminated, there's no other choice that people have.

If you have access to bottled water, you almost certainly also have access to tap water. Underdeveloped areas that are remote enough not to have tap water are not exactly the prime markets for Deer Park or Poland Spring.

Quality of tap water is not consistent, but filters and boiling can address that.

Anyway, for most brands of bottled water, a big chunk of the price is due to the costs of bottling and transporting it. Piping water from local sources is a lot more efficient than bottling and shipping it.

[Scandinavian Nations]

I would support it, but I'm more interested in regulating corporations that sell water at exorbitant prices.

It's generally only 'luxury' water brands that are priced exorbitantly - well, so is jewellery. Bottled water isn't just 12 oz bottles of magic, it's also reusable 5-gallon jugs.

If you have access to bottled water, you almost certainly also have access to tap water.

Not certainly and not even almost certainly. Not every residence (often too strong a word for what most people in the world live in) has any sort of plumbing in it.

I don't have the stats, but I've spent a lot of time in the third world, and would wager that there's overall more people in the world that don't have a water tap in their home than there's people who do. Not many times more, maybe a 70-30 margin, but still more.`

Now, many of those 70% don't have access to bottled water either. But as civilization and money move in, so does bottled water. It does so long, long before things like plumbing, which are expensive, have an extraordinarily long lead time, is an unprofitable business, and implies a far higher grade of housing than what most people live in.

And as population density in the third world grows, the ability of traditional sources to supply drinking water diminishes very rapidly. They don't have the capacity, or they get contaminated, or they get developed into more housing.

Quality of tap water is not consistent, but filters and boiling can address that.

Only in some cases. Ever seen tap water that is actually brackish water, not fresh? Ordinary filters don't address that, and you can't boil the salt out, it only gets more saline.

If jugs of bottled water cost too much, distillation or reverse osmosis filters, which can do it, are definitely out of reach. The ways to deal on the cheap are more along the lines of collecting rainwater, which is often also impossible, requiring a larger collection area than available.

[Dark Triads]

I don't really like excise taxes. I don't think they're aimed at the right people, for one. As many have undoubtedly pointed out, they're regressive and taxation should be progressive, if we wanted to get some income inequality-alleviating distribution of capital going on. I don't like the health-based moralism behind it against fat people and drug users either. All it does is promote intolerance and drive people apart from each other.

[USS Monitor]

If you have access to bottled water, you almost certainly also have access to tap water.

Not certainly and not even almost certainly. Not every residence (often too strong a word for what most people in the world live in) has any sort of plumbing in it.

I don't have the stats, but I've spent a lot of time in the third world, and would wager that there's overall more people in the world that don't have a water tap in their home than there's people who do. Not many times more, maybe a 70-30 margin, but still more.`

Now, many of those 70% don't have access to bottled water either. But as civilization and money move in, so does bottled water. It does so long, long before things like plumbing, which are expensive, have an extraordinarily long lead time, is an unprofitable business, and implies a far higher grade of housing than what most people live in.

And as population density in the third world grows, the ability of traditional sources to supply drinking water diminishes very rapidly. They don't have the capacity, or they get contaminated, or they get developed into more housing.

Quality of tap water is not consistent, but filters and boiling can address that.

Only in some cases. Ever seen tap water that is actually brackish water, not fresh? Ordinary filters don't address that, and you can't boil the salt out, it only gets more saline.

If jugs of bottled water cost too much, distillation or reverse osmosis filters, which can do it, are definitely out of reach. The ways to deal on the cheap are more along the lines of collecting rainwater, which is often also impossible, requiring a larger collection area than available.

This sounds like you volunteered in some backwater that has among the worst conditions on the planet and you now mistakenly think that's normal.

Considering Chinese cities have tap water, and China has about 20% of the world's population, I'm pretty skeptical of your 70/30 estimate.

[Australian rePublic]

Australkpia pays enough f$$king taxes. No more tax!

[USS Monitor]

Australkpia pays enough f$$king taxes. No more tax!

Apparently the taxes make you too angry to spell the name of your country.

[Australian rePublic]

Australkpia pays enough f$$king taxes. No more tax!

Apparently the taxes make you too angry to spell the name of your country.

Yep, especially as the government flushes the money down the toilet...

[USS Monitor]

Apparently the taxes make you too angry to spell the name of your country.

Yep, especially as the government flushes the money down the toilet...

That's a common problem with governments.

[Mark of Chain]

Yep, especially as the government flushes the money down the toilet...

That's a common problem with governments.

And toilets!


I often drop my wallet in the toilet...

[Australian rePublic]

That's a common problem with governments.

And toilets!


I often drop my wallet in the toilet...

[USS Monitor]

That's a common problem with governments.

And toilets!


I often drop my wallet in the toilet...

Sounds like a problem with wallets.

[Australian rePublic]

I would support it, but I'm more interested in regulating corporations that sell water at exorbitant prices.

So you would put taxes on companies that sell bottled water? Are you aware of a device called a tap?

Yea, there really isn't. Take a walk around Sydney and point to all the taps you see (if you are refering to inside people's homes, then there really isn't any need to drink water from a bottle inside people's home as anyway, when in public, however, there are no taps), and don't say it doesn't matter, because Sydney is home to like 20% of the population
(It's like when they tell us to throw garbage in the non-existant bins)

[Aclion]

This tax has already been put in force by the great Correa's government in Ecuador.
It has a double benefit, the health of the people and less health care spending in the future forma preventable diseases, the same reasoning of the cigarettes.
I think there should be a double-taxation, taxing more also the producing companies so to make them pursue natural dolcificants to keep profits.

Companies would just use artificial sweetener instead, and that's no better then sugar.

It depends on the sweetener. If it has less caloric value (and isn't a carcingen for something) then it would be better.

[Australian rePublic]

That's a common problem with governments.

And toilets!


I often drop my wallet in the toilet...

At least you didn't leave yours on the train, with the ID and the car key in it. (For a fortnight, I had to take extra precautions to stop the finder of my wallet from using my key to drive my car), but I've never dropped it in the toilet, though...

[USS Monitor]

So you would put taxes on companies that sell bottled water? Are you aware of a device called a tap?

Yea, there really isn't. Take a walk around Sydney and point to all the taps you see (if you are refering to inside people's homes, then there really isn't any need to drink water from a bottle inside people's home as anyway, when in public, however, there are no taps), and don't say it doesn't matter, because Sydney is home to like 20% of the population
(It's like when they tell us to throw garbage in the non-existant bins)

Do you not have drinking fountains? Serious question. In the US they are easy to find (usually next to the restrooms in public buildings), but I have been to cities in other countries that did not have any.

[Australian rePublic]

Yea, there really isn't. Take a walk around Sydney and point to all the taps you see (if you are refering to inside people's homes, then there really isn't any need to drink water from a bottle inside people's home as anyway, when in public, however, there are no taps), and don't say it doesn't matter, because Sydney is home to like 20% of the population
(It's like when they tell us to throw garbage in the non-existant bins)

Do you not have drinking fountains? Serious question. In the US they are easy to find (usually next to the restrooms in public buildings), but I have been to cities in other countries that did not have any.

There are... just not in Sydney. No public toilets either (well, they're a rarity anyway) in Sydney. But, as I said earlier, Sydney is home to 20% of the nation's population. Take a trip down to Huskisson, and you'll find plenty of both. You also have the govenrment whinging about littering, but don't provide us with bins. See what I mean by tax money down the toilet? Running advertisiments about putting garbage in imaginary bins

[Mark of Chain]

Companies would just use artificial sweetener instead, and that's no better then sugar.

It depends on the sweetener. If it has less caloric value (and isn't a carcingen for something) then it would be better.

Well there are no pharmacodynamic studies of artificial sweeteners yet to my knowledge, but the caloric value isn't the issue, it's how it's metabolized. 1 calorie of glucose and 1 calorie of alcohol have the same energy, but one of them is metabolized in a way that makes your liver sick...

[USS Monitor]

Do you not have drinking fountains? Serious question. In the US they are easy to find (usually next to the restrooms in public buildings), but I have been to cities in other countries that did not have any.

There are... just not in Sydney. No public toilets either (well, they're a rarity anyway) in Sydney. But, as I said earlier, Sydney is home to 20% of the nation's population. Take a trip down to Huskisson, and you'll find plenty of both. You also have the govenrment whinging about littering, but don't provide us with bins. See what I mean by tax money down the toilet? Running advertisiments about putting garbage in imaginary bins

Sounds like you need to get some new people in your city government.

[Australian rePublic]

There are... just not in Sydney. No public toilets either (well, they're a rarity anyway) in Sydney. But, as I said earlier, Sydney is home to 20% of the nation's population. Take a trip down to Huskisson, and you'll find plenty of both. You also have the govenrment whinging about littering, but don't provide us with bins. See what I mean by tax money down the toilet? Running advertisiments about putting garbage in imaginary bins

Sounds like you need to get some new people in your city government.

Yea, I don't know how Clover Moore is elected Lord Mayor election, after election, after election, after election, especially when the rezt of the city knows she was unfit to win the second election, but in the case of bins, I was refering to the state government

[Scandinavian Nations]

This sounds like you volunteered in some backwater that has among the worst conditions on the planet and you now mistakenly think that's normal.

I've been through plenty of backwater countries, true, but generally not as a volunteer, or at least not in poverty relief capacity (rather environmental), and so mostly in their better-developed parts. Even in a lot of outright tourist areas - in which the tourists were often the only ones to get tap water at home, also some of the establishments catering to them.

Considering Chinese cities have tap water, and China has about 20% of the world's population, I'm pretty skeptical of your 70/30 estimate.

Not everyone in China lives in cities. China is currently a developed nation in everything but nominal GDPPC (and freedoms, but development doesn't equal freedom), and it's only about 50% urbanized.

Maybe 70/30 is too far on the other side. But world urbanization is about 50% in total as well. Tap water in rural areas is generally a first-world thing, it's really expensive.
Also, the cities in developing nations are not uniform blocks of 5-story brick buildings; they tend to go more along the lines of a small high-rise urban center, surrounded by miles upon miles of shacks, with the occasional brick building here and there. The brick ones have tap water, the shacks around them, not so much.

I'm guesstimating the proportion of population that has water on tap in their own residence, not just generally some access to tap water somewhere else. In the latter case, purified tap water (because it's not safely drinkable on its own) bottled and sold in reusable 5-gal jugs is a common way of distributing water to smaller private residences.

Speaking of estimates that aren't mine, while access to drinking water is estimated at 90%, access to sanitation is only at 2/3. If you have tap water, it basically implies you also have sewage pipes to carry it away after use. Next, sewers at home are only one form of access to sanitation, it's just any toilets that don't cause groundwater contamination, shared or private, so not quite everyone with sanitation has a water tap at home.

I guess the 70/30 estimate was overly pessimistic, around half, maybe just a bit better, looks more like it. Probably worse if we're talking specifically drinking quality tap water, not just general domestic use. Some tap water is bad enough that you have to rinse your dishes with bottled water before use.

In any event, the point wasn't that estimate. The point was that plenty of people have access to bottled drinking water, but not to tap water (even of non-drinkable quality). Another point was that not all tap water is drinking water.

[New Werpland]

This is a good idea. It will encourage beverage companies to make more of those carbohydrate-free soda drinks that I like.