Heckler+Koch declines to sell arms outside of NATO

[Ostroeuropa]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germa ... SKBN13N1JQ

Heckler and Koch have declared they will no longer sell weapons to any countries not in NATO.

Responsible capitalism? Not quite.

German arms manufacturer Heckler & Koch will no longer sign contracts to supply countries outside of NATO's influence because it has become too difficult to obtain government approval for such deals, news agency DPA reported on Monday.

Turkey is also ruled out.

The company, one of the world's best-known gunmakers, will in future only sell to countries that are democratic and free from corruption and that are members of NATO or NATO members' partners, DPA said, citing company sources.

It said this change in strategy would rule out deals with countries such as Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Brazil, India or even NATO member Turkey.

This is fairly big.

Its HK416 assault rifle is said to have been used to kill Osama bin Laden and its G36 rifle is standard issue for armies across the globe.

This means re-fitting for a lot of armies, probably a hit to this sector of Germanies economy, and a mad scramble from other arms dealing countries to fill the gap, representing a potential geopolitical shakeup that could see countries re-align toward the nation selling to them. (For instance, Russia, the UK, or the USA.)

The likelihood is that if the US or UK are pressured into not replacing the german arms, the russians will or someone else will.


It does also mean that, in corporatist terms, at least one major arms manufacturer now has a vested interest in lobbying against arms sales to the middle east.

Discuss?

[The Alexanderians]

Obviously non-NATO countries aren't operator enough

[Spaceman Spliff]

Had no idea the G36 was so ubiquitous. I loved it in COD. The HK416 ain't half bad either.
"forcibly responsible capitalism" or not this ought to be interesting. Might lead to a reduction in hypocrisy in arms sales by one country. We will probably just keep giving everyone M4s.

[Krah Versilia]

Wait, a Western country using their mind and not giving weapons to Wahhabists?

What is this heresy?

[Ostroeuropa]

It does also mean that there may well be a weakening of groups previously using these weapons as they are forced to adapt to new weaponry, potentially higher costs or lower reliability, and will lack as much potential for supply compatibility with each-other if they go to different buyers, though this may take some months or years to kick in if they still have reserves.

[Ostroeuropa]

Had no idea the G36 was so ubiquitous. I loved it in COD. The HK416 ain't half bad either.
"forcibly responsible capitalism" or not this ought to be interesting. Might lead to a reduction in hypocrisy in arms sales by one country. We will probably just keep giving everyone M4s.

It also means that, in corporatist terms, at least one major arms manufacturer now has a vested interest in lobbying against arms sales to the middle east.

[Spaceman Spliff]

Had no idea the G36 was so ubiquitous. I loved it in COD. The HK416 ain't half bad either.
"forcibly responsible capitalism" or not this ought to be interesting. Might lead to a reduction in hypocrisy in arms sales by one country. We will probably just keep giving everyone M4s.

It also means that, in corporatist terms, at least one major arms manufacturer now has a vested interest in lobbying against arms sales to the middle east.

Could it lead to a general embargo? I've thought Remington and ArmaLite and the rest in America were too invested in the opposite. But at least there's a voice out there doing it!

[San Marlindo]

It's a nice gesture, but it's too late.

H&K rifles, SMGs, and pistols are already made under license in Spain, Iran, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, France, Thailand, Pakistan, Greece, Luxembourg, Mexico, Burma, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, and the UK.

All of the above produce multiple weapons under multiple licenses. And more than a few of them aren't nearly as picky about who they supply.

H&K's trend of handing out licenses like candy mean that it can continue to do so and thus circumvent any pledge it makes to not sell weapons directly to non-NATO member states.

[Galloism]

I think I'm going to have to think about the full ramifications worldwide for a while before I pick an extreme position to take and defend it to the death no matter what.

[The East Marches]

Why would the German government do this? It seems very harmful to their military-industrial base. They are effectively giving American and British firms the field for this.

[The East Marches]

I think I'm going to have to think about the full ramifications worldwide for a while before I pick an extreme position to take and defend it to the death no matter what.

Thats not very NSG of you. You should commit to a blanket position and stubbornly defend it to the end.

[Spaceman Spliff]

It's a nice gesture, but it's too late.

H&K rifles, SMGs, and pistols are already made under license in Spain, Iran, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, France, Thailand, Pakistan, Greece, Luxembourg, Mexico, Burma, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, and the UK.

All of the above produce multiple weapons under multiple licenses. And more than a few of them aren't nearly as picky about who they supply.

H&K's trend of handing out licenses like candy mean that it can continue to do so and thus circumvent any pledge it makes to not sell weapons directly to non-NATO member states.

Yeah I forgot about that...mostly. I mean, I know about the IAR. Had no idea they had already licensed to the Saudis, though.

[Arcturus Novus]

Meanwhile, the execs at Izhmash/Kalashnikov are currently rubbing their hands greedily...

[The Serbian Empire]

It does also mean that there may well be a weakening of groups previously using these weapons as they are forced to adapt to new weaponry, potentially higher costs or lower reliability, and will lack as much potential for supply compatibility with each-other if they go to different buyers, though this may take some months or years to kick in if they still have reserves.

This means the Serbians and Russians will likely fill the void.

[San Marlindo]

Why would the German government do this? It seems very harmful to their military-industrial base. They are effectively giving American and British firms the field for this.

They already sold the licensing rights of their weapons to other countries that produce cheaper copies of the same product and aren't as picky about who they sell them to. So it doesn't matter that much any more, and they aren't losing a ton of business.

[The East Marches]

Why would the German government do this? It seems very harmful to their military-industrial base. They are effectively giving American and British firms the field for this.

They already sold the licensing rights of their weapons to other countries that produce cheaper copies of the same product and aren't as picky about who they sell them to. So it doesn't matter that much any more, and they aren't losing a ton of business.

Surely they still have other newer models they are rolling out for sale to the elite of foreign countries' armies? I don't believe they licensed the 416 among other things.

[Thermodolia]

Why would the German government do this? It seems very harmful to their military-industrial base. They are effectively giving American and British firms the field for this.

Not fully thinking things through seems to be a hallmark of the German government. Nuclear accident after an earthquake? Better shut down all Nuclear power plants

[The East Marches]

Why would the German government do this? It seems very harmful to their military-industrial base. They are effectively giving American and British firms the field for this.

Not fully thinking things through seems to be a hallmark of the German government. Nuclear accident after an earthquake? Better shut down all Nuclear power plants

You're right, I am sorry, I forgot about that fact.

[San Marlindo]

It's a nice gesture, but it's too late.

H&K rifles, SMGs, and pistols are already made under license in Spain, Iran, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, France, Thailand, Pakistan, Greece, Luxembourg, Mexico, Burma, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, and the UK.

All of the above produce multiple weapons under multiple licenses. And more than a few of them aren't nearly as picky about who they supply.

H&K's trend of handing out licenses like candy mean that it can continue to do so and thus circumvent any pledge it makes to not sell weapons directly to non-NATO member states.

Yeah I forgot about that...mostly. I mean, I know about the IAR. Had no idea they had already licensed to the Saudis, though.

Yeah, the Saudis have been manufacturing the G36 since 2009. They also bought licensing rights to the G3 a long time ago, probably in the mid '80s.

[Spaceman Spliff]

They already sold the licensing rights of their weapons to other countries that produce cheaper copies of the same product and aren't as picky about who they sell them to. So it doesn't matter that much any more, and they aren't losing a ton of business.

Surely they still have other newer models they are rolling out for sale to the elite of foreign countries' armies? I don't believe they licensed the 416 among other things.

The M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR) is a lightweight, magazine-fed 5.56mm weapon used by the United States Marine Corps. It is intended to enhance an automatic rifleman's maneuverability, and it is based on the Heckler & Koch HK416.

Now if they had 100-round mags like in COD.

[Geilinor]

Why would the German government do this? It seems very harmful to their military-industrial base. They are effectively giving American and British firms the field for this.

Not fully thinking things through seems to be a hallmark of the German government. Nuclear accident after an earthquake? Better shut down all Nuclear power plants

Do you want them selling to oppressive dictatorships? People throw a fit whenever those deals get made.

[The East Marches]

Not fully thinking things through seems to be a hallmark of the German government. Nuclear accident after an earthquake? Better shut down all Nuclear power plants

Do you want them selling to oppressive dictatorships? People throw a fit whenever those deals get made.

We do and nobody blinks an eye. I don't see the big deal about Germany doing it too.

[Galloism]

Do you want them selling to oppressive dictatorships? People throw a fit whenever those deals get made.

We do and nobody blinks an eye. I don't see the big deal about Germany doing it too.

I mean, maybe I'm a terrible person, but I can't help but think "somebody will."

[San Marlindo]

They already sold the licensing rights of their weapons to other countries that produce cheaper copies of the same product and aren't as picky about who they sell them to. So it doesn't matter that much any more, and they aren't losing a ton of business.

Surely they still have other newer models they are rolling out for sale to the elite of foreign countries' armies? I don't believe they licensed the 416 among other things.

Actually they have.

The 416 is made under license by Walther Arms, which is an American company. I think they're responsible for supplying most of the 416s used in the US armed forces.

[Spaceman Spliff]

Yeah I forgot about that...mostly. I mean, I know about the IAR. Had no idea they had already licensed to the Saudis, though.

Yeah, the Saudis have been manufacturing the G36 since 2009. They also bought licensing rights to the G3 a long time ago, probably in the mid '80s.

Dang, they've had the G36 for a while. I think I remember hearing about the G3 going international too. It being licensed in the 80s wouldn't surprise me...