Left-Wing Discussion Thread II: Behind 700,000 Bunkers

[Jochizyd Republic]

Far Leftists saying they aren't Liberals is bullshit. It's like Fascists decrying the definition of them as Far Right.

Yeah, I guess in bizarro land where words don't have any meaning and what we feel is true becomes truth that might be accurate, but we live in the real world where that isn't the case. Or perhaps red is blue and all muslims are just different flavors of salafist. But again, this is the real world where that isn't true.

libirtinism, hedonism and radical social egalitarianism are values of yours yes?

Cause those are profoundly socially liberal values.

[Communist Xomaniax]

Tell me, how will you succeed where the Soviet Union failed?

Not being a destitute shithole for starters. People turn to religion as a means of escaping their harsh reality. Bettering their lot in life, and bettering their education, will work I believe. It seems to be doing so in much of the developed world.

Would you crack down on the Church working underground, would you allow us to conduct Church services at our homes, to train our clergy? What of monastics?

I'm fine with services at home, and I'm not terribly upset by trained clergy, so long as they, as Kubra said, play ball.

As for monastics, I'm admittedly unsure. I suppose I'd be fine with them so long as they kept to themselves. But again, I'm not sure.

[United Marxist Nations]

Tell me, how will you succeed where the Soviet Union failed?

Not being a destitute shithole for starters. People turn to religion as a means of escaping their harsh reality. Bettering their lot in life, and bettering their education, will work I believe. It seems to be doing so in much of the developed world.

Would you crack down on the Church working underground, would you allow us to conduct Church services at our homes, to train our clergy? What of monastics?

I'm fine with services at home, and I'm not terribly upset by trained clergy, so long as they, as Kubra said, play ball.

As for monastics, I'm admittedly unsure. I suppose I'd be fine with them so long as they kept to themselves. But again, I'm not sure.

The Soviet Union wasn't that destitute, and did better people's education.

What do you mean, "play ball"? And, if the community was largely Orthodox, could we have a Church building?

[Communist Xomaniax]

libirtinism, hedonism and radical social egalitarianism are values of yours yes?

Depends on what you mean by them.

Cause those are profoundly socially liberal values.

I would argue that they are core components of my communist doctrine, but I see your point. Still, I'm not a liberal in any kind of economic or religious sense, and 2/3 ain't bad.

[Communist Xomaniax]

The Soviet Union wasn't that destitute, and did better people's education.

The USSR was very poor, and the Soviet citizen led a bleak, harsh life. Hence the alcoholism, drug epidemics, and religiosity.

What do you mean, "play ball"?

Adopting doctrines more befitting of an egalitarian and communist society.

And, if the community was largely Orthodox, could we have a Church building?

Maybe.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

What do you mean, "play ball"? And, if the community was largely Orthodox, could we have a Church building?

Were it up to me, it would be a matter of 'are you willing to tolerate the existence of a 'socially liberal' cultural milieu in the broader society (in the sense of non-churchgoers), and will you cooperate with the broader political aims of the revolution? (ie abolition of private property, the state, etc)'. If yes, welcome aboard, if not, well there's not much room for coexistence unfortunately.

[United Marxist Nations]

The Soviet Union wasn't that destitute, and did better people's education.

The USSR was very poor, and the Soviet citizen led a bleak, harsh life. Hence the alcoholism, drug epidemics, and religiosity.

What do you mean, "play ball"?

Adopting doctrines more befitting of an egalitarian and communist society.

And, if the community was largely Orthodox, could we have a Church building?

Maybe.

The Soviet Union wasn't very religious.

What sorts of doctrines? You are aware that doctrine is unchangeable, right?

[United Marxist Nations]

What do you mean, "play ball"? And, if the community was largely Orthodox, could we have a Church building?

Were it up to me, it would be a matter of 'are you willing to tolerate the existence of a 'socially liberal' cultural milieu in the broader society (in the sense of non-churchgoers), and will you cooperate with the broader political aims of the revolution? (ie abolition of private property, the state, etc)'. If yes, welcome aboard, if not, well there's not much room for coexistence unfortunately.

We have to tolerate socially liberal culture in broader society right now, don't we?

The Orthodox Church has cooperated with communist governments in the past on political aims.

What I am more concerned about is being able to continue upholding our doctrines within our general community.

[Communist Xomaniax]

The Soviet Union wasn't very religious.

It's people were, and remain.

What sorts of doctrines? You are aware that doctrine is unchangeable, right?

I would have to believe that is true, which I don't. As for what I had in mind, Bogdonav said it best.

What do you mean, "play ball"? And, if the community was largely Orthodox, could we have a Church building?

Were it up to me, it would be a matter of 'are you willing to tolerate the existence of a 'socially liberal' cultural milieu in the broader society (in the sense of non-churchgoers), and will you cooperate with the broader political aims of the revolution? (ie abolition of private property, the state, etc)'. If yes, welcome aboard, if not, well there's not much room for coexistence unfortunately.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

We have to tolerate socially liberal culture in broader society right now, don't we?

Yep, which is why I think that most organized religions absolutely have the capability to be in harmony with the aims of the revolution, at least as I see it.

The Orthodox Church has cooperated with communist governments in the past on political aims.

What I am more concerned about is being able to continue upholding our doctrines within our general community.

Depends on what you mean by upholding, IMO. Voluntary restrictions should be fine - if church doctrine says that birth control should not be used then by all means your congregation has every right not to use them. Even excommunication and whatnot is permissible, so long as everyone understands that coercion is no longer acceptable.

[Mattopilos]

We have to tolerate socially liberal culture in broader society right now, don't we?

Yep, which is why I think that most organized religions absolutely have the capability to be in harmony with the aims of the revolution, at least as I see it.

The Orthodox Church has cooperated with communist governments in the past on political aims.

What I am more concerned about is being able to continue upholding our doctrines within our general community.

Depends on what you mean by upholding, IMO. Voluntary restrictions should be fine - if church doctrine says that birth control should not be used then by all means your congregation has every right not to use them. Even excommunication and whatnot is permissible, so long as everyone understands that coercion is no longer acceptable.

I see that occurring via free association, in which a group can form without coercion from a state or other overbearing group.

[Socialist Tera]

What is your opinion of the guerilla tactics known as focoism?

[Mattopilos]

What is your opinion of the guerilla tactics known as focoism?

Viable, and a large focus on it would be needed given the superior firepower of the state and police in modern civilization.

[Pandeeria]

The USSR was very poor, and the Soviet citizen led a bleak, harsh life. Hence the alcoholism, drug epidemics, and religiosity.


Adopting doctrines more befitting of an egalitarian and communist society.


Maybe.

The Soviet Union wasn't very religious.

What sorts of doctrines? You are aware that doctrine is unchangeable, right?

Actually while the State practiced State-Atheism (until Gorbachev, then it kind of moved into de facto secularism IIRC) and the ranks of the Party were largely atheist, the common person in the Soviet Union was still very much religious.

As it turns out, no matter how much evolution and anti-religious teachings you carry out in school, just raising the standards of living is a better way to combat religiosity.

[Yoshida (Ancient)]

I'm not a libertarian, nor am I a liberal. Vaguepost somewhere else pl0x

Far Leftists saying they aren't Liberals is bullshit. It's like Fascists decrying the definition of them as Far Right.

Liberalism refers to an actual ideology, using it as a buzzword for what one doesn't like just shows ignorance of basic modern history.

[Kubra]

Not being a destitute shithole for starters. People turn to religion as a means of escaping their harsh reality. Bettering their lot in life, and bettering their education, will work I believe. It seems to be doing so in much of the developed world.


I'm fine with services at home, and I'm not terribly upset by trained clergy, so long as they, as Kubra said, play ball.

As for monastics, I'm admittedly unsure. I suppose I'd be fine with them so long as they kept to themselves. But again, I'm not sure.

The Soviet Union wasn't that destitute, and did better people's education.

What do you mean, "play ball"? And, if the community was largely Orthodox, could we have a Church building?

yeah, there can even be churches.
All we need is there to be Caesar before Pope. That's a fine arrangement, right?

[The New Sea Territory]

Libertarian Leftists always crack me up. Freedom for their own snowflake brigade but not for anyone who disagrees with their shallow ultraliberal agenda .

....whatever that means.

[The Grene Knyght]

Libertarian Leftists always crack me up. Freedom for their own snowflake brigade but not for anyone who disagrees with their shallow ultraliberal agenda .

....whatever that means.

inb4 "libtards"

[Dark Triads]

I consider myself an agrarian-minded revolutionary socialist with an affinity for civil liberties and disdain for liberal systems of class collaboration and contemporary representative democracy, who bases his socialism on dialectical materialism and the collective egoist consciousness of the working class.

[Conscentia]

I consider myself an agrarian-minded revolutionary socialist with an affinity for civil liberties and disdain for liberal systems of class collaboration and contemporary representative democracy, who bases his socialism on dialectical materialism and the collective egoist consciousness of the working class.

Why?

[Dumb Ideologies]

I consider myself an agrarian-minded revolutionary socialist with an affinity for civil liberties and disdain for liberal systems of class collaboration and contemporary representative democracy, who bases his socialism on dialectical materialism and the collective egoist consciousness of the working class.

Why?

Fields are dope, I guess.

[Kubra]

Yeah, I guess in bizarro land where words don't have any meaning and what we feel is true becomes truth that might be accurate, but we live in the real world where that isn't the case. Or perhaps red is blue and all muslims are just different flavors of salafist. But again, this is the real world where that isn't true.

libirtinism, hedonism and radical social egalitarianism are values of yours yes?

Cause those are profoundly socially liberal values.

so who isn't a liberal

[United Marxist Nations]

libirtinism, hedonism and radical social egalitarianism are values of yours yes?

Cause those are profoundly socially liberal values.

so who isn't a liberal

People against those things, for one.

[Kubra]

so who isn't a liberal

People against those things, for one.

what if they're against those things but into constitutional republics and natural rights
Liberal as fuuuuuck

[Dark Triads]

I consider myself an agrarian-minded revolutionary socialist with an affinity for civil liberties and disdain for liberal systems of class collaboration and contemporary representative democracy, who bases his socialism on dialectical materialism and the collective egoist consciousness of the working class.

Why?

I don't emphasize agricultural workers over industrial workers or anything like that, just consider both those who produce our food and those who do all the work for us as vital subjects in a socialist revolution. Maybe that's not what agrarian-minded means. Just thought to mention it and I'm not saying that socialists don't have farmers in mind.