Gays in the military

[Dyakovo]

my mind was made up when I actually saw a female rock a .50 M2 machinegun, I know guys that can't handle that thing.

How could you possibly be unable to handle firing a tripod/pintle mounted weapon?

Ahh the poles we had in Iraq weren't very robust, you would have a metal pole that you dropped the pintle into, no place for a t/e so you had to free gun anything you used. Later on we got better mounts, but in the beginning it was you the gun and the wind.

Okay, I guess I can see how it could be a problem... Still boggles the mind though.

[New Wade]

It is just alot of bible reading people that think gays are the making of the underworld They should be able to sever in the arm has well has women. i do not mean to upset any church going people. I just think that they should be able to serve.

[The Dog Hold]

Most things I know about the US are the secondary information, but I can say this: Don't ask, don't tell my ass!

I can only wonder what they do when they're not wearing combat jump suits.

[Risottia]

I want to remove black people from the military because some white people are racist.

Makes perfect sense.

You forgot to remove white people from the military, because some black people are racist, too.
You racist!

[SD_Film Artists]

Translation of your post: "Let's all just sit around and hope the next generation changes things. Go home Gandhi, stand up Rosa Parks, shut up Mandela, stop typing Thoreau, shut up Walesa...The world isn't ready for you yet."

Hey, the RIN mutiny/general India thread is over there *points*

[The Parkus Empire]

Most things I know about the US are the secondary information, but I can say this: Don't ask, don't tell my ass!

I can only wonder what they do when they're not wearing combat jump suits.

Combatives. *nod* I'm certified.

[New Chalcedon]

Most things I know about the US are the secondary information, but I can say this: Don't ask, don't tell my ass!

I can only wonder what they do when they're not wearing combat jump suits.

Wow.

Just - wow.

Damn it, I'm not American!

[Tekania]

This isn't and doesn't put "undue stress" on the military... We've known about homosexuals, hell, we've served right next to them... Just they weren't allowed to actually officially BE "homosexuals"... The people in Uniform aren't the ones stressing over it... It's all of those non-uniformed (and many-cases NEVER uniformed) Congressmen and their constituents who make a deal over it... We served with our fellow Americans regardless what they were...

If anything, continuing DADT puts undue stress on the military. It means that they lose well-trained, well-qualified members and that some of the soldiers have extremely low morale because they have to lie just to stay in.

Well, DADT doesn't put any more stress on homosexual servicemen than the previous rules did...

Slightly less actually... considering it removed the line from the enlistment contract involving their homosexuality... No sure when you signed up into service, but I actually had to affirm my sexual orientation on my DEP enlistment prior to DADT (I entered Delayed Enlistment entering my senior year of HS), but then line it our on my final enlistment contract prior to shipping to basic... Thus meaning they no longer had to certify on a legally binding document that they were not a homosexual (which created even more hassle in the long run, since that could be construed itself as a UCMJ violation)... Though in no way totally alleviated it... since self-admission or revelation still could result in Administrative termination...

They didn't ask me in '91.

It was on the Medical Prescreening form (DD2807-1 and 2) prior to 1994 (during 1993 with the enforcement of DADT it was a line-out)

[Dyakovo]

Most things I know about the US are the secondary information, but I can say this: Don't ask, don't tell my ass!

Okay, I won't ask or tell your ass anything...

[Temperature]

Why is this an issue? I'm sitting here almost dumbfounded at this (it's hard to shock or surprise me in anyway today). If gays, no, if ANYONE wants to serve in the military, then they should have every right to do so, and if they don't, they shouldn't have to. it's that simple!! Where should they bunk gays? With the same gender! What about sexual harassment? It's the military! They need to discipline their troops! If they can't, those soldiers need to be discharged (i might have used the wrong word). If anyone's being harassed, they need to tell someone or if they are having uncontrollable urges, they to, need to tell someone and find some way to work it out.

[JuNii]

Most things I know about the US are the secondary information, but I can say this: Don't ask, don't tell my ass!

I can only wonder what they do when they're not wearing combat jump suits.

as long as you don't ask... wondering's ok.

[Israslovakahzerbajan]

Most things I know about the US are the secondary information, but I can say this: Don't ask, don't tell my ass!

I can only wonder what they do when they're not wearing combat jump suits.

Wow.

Just - wow.

Damn it, I'm not American!

Who says they have to be American?

[New Chalcedon]

Most things I know about the US are the secondary information, but I can say this: Don't ask, don't tell my ass!

I can only wonder what they do when they're not wearing combat jump suits.

Wow.

Just - wow.

Damn it, I'm not American!

Who says they have to be American?

*whimper*

You're a cruel, heartless so-and-so, remindingm e of my single status.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

Go tell it to the Spartans

Huh?

I believe he is referencing as evidence the fact that the Spartans were a well-disciplined fighting force yet they were all bisexuals as was common in Greece at the time. The key points he doesn't recognize are that the Spartans were raised from 6-7 years old by the military, while the Military of America only "trains" you for about 4-6 months on average when you are already an adult. On top of that, since they were all(or at least the vast majority) openly bisexual there was no real cause for alarm or discomfort from anyone, since they shared the same upbringing and experiences.

A sub-par argument at first look, and a little bit worse after thinking it over.

The Spartans were actually opposed to basing military units on sexuality, preferring instead to base them on ability.

How exactly is the length of military training even relevant to this argument? Your argument appears to be based around the idea that being homosexual was socially acceptable in ancient Greece so it didn't cause any problems in the military. Not sure if you have been outside lately but homosexuality is socially acceptable in the modern world too.

1. The point is from age 6 and up they recieved more than simply military training, they were all raised in the same exact environments and brought up usually by the same group of instructors. 6 months after you've turned 18 doesn't shape your world view quite as powerfully as 14 years from your 6th birthday.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

http://www.proud2serve.net/
These peeps are doing fine.Can any anti-gay military persons tell me why the U.S can't?

[Helertia]

http://www.proud2serve.net/
These peeps are doing fine.Can any anti-gay military persons tell me why the U.S can't?

Probably because a US GI Joe is more likely to be afflicted with "Teh gays are ickyz burnz them" syndrome than a British Bond.

Such are the perils of a secular constitution!