Communism v Capitalism

[Ministerial]

But they deviated from the Communist Manifesto, they didn't do everything by the communist manifesto

Well it's pretty damn obvious that they weren't theocrats.

Well if you actually studied the Communist Manifesto, you would know that they weren't Communists

[Citann]

Communism ignores human nature and expects people to be satisfied with the basics while the people with power have it all. In a communist society there is no room to grow. In a capitalist country there are the rich and the poor, but there is also a middle class that is only available if entrepreneurship is encouraged. Communism also always ends up being an oligarchy or dictatorship. For it to succeed, communism requires the destruction of nationalism, individualism, and culture. It is in effect, promoting globalization. Capitalism works because it does not require a change in culture, faith, or ideals. It just requires people are allowed to better themselves for their own sake.
I prefer the Federalist idea of capitalism, which is a free market within the nation, and heavy controls on trade with other nations. That way, the country does not suffer from globalization and therefore, communism.

[Conscentia]

Well it's pretty damn obvious that they weren't theocrats.

Well if you actually studied the Communist Manifesto, you would know that they weren't Communists

The Manifesto was written for the Communist League, and, like all manifestos, is a product of it's time. It isn't and was not intended as an incontrovertible Bible of the one true communism.

That said, regarding your present discussion, a lot of criticism of Leninist and Maoist states and their like came from others within the communist movement. These go back as far as criticisms of the Russian Revolution and the Bolsheviks by contemporary communists. The dispute between anarchist communists and Marxist communists is older still.

[Greater Pareidolia]

Well it's pretty damn obvious that they weren't theocrats.

Well if you actually studied the Communist Manifesto, you would know that they weren't Communists

So in essence you are saying communism isn't that bad because Mao and Stalin weren't communists and since they were responsible for millions of deaths together, communism wasn't as bad as is commonly held. Revisionist much?

[Settrah]

Well if you actually studied the Communist Manifesto, you would know that they weren't Communists

So in essence you are saying communism isn't that bad because Mao and Stalin weren't communists and since they were responsible for millions of deaths together, communism wasn't as bad as is commonly held. Revisionist much?

But if someone implies that national socialism isn't actually that bad, it's just that Hitler was dodgy, then alarm bells.

[Gages Icelandic Army]

Stalinism and Maoism were communism in name only. They were essentially fascism in another form. Also, there are a lot of things one could criticize a ideology for, but death wouldn't be my first one.

Really? In name? Communist in NAME only? I...do...I need a break. Seriously. Can somebody spot me? How on earth can you say that when they did everything by the communist book?!

Ahhhhh yes. A Communist Book. A classic read. Written by the world renowned Economist: Karl Lenin Stalin. 10/10.
Come on bruh

[Gages Icelandic Army]

Well if you actually studied the Communist Manifesto, you would know that they weren't Communists

So in essence you are saying communism isn't that bad because Mao and Stalin weren't communists and since they were responsible for millions of deaths together, communism wasn't as bad as is commonly held. Revisionist much?

Mao and Stalin=/= communist.
Mao and Stalin= millions of deaths
so...
Communism =/= millions of deaths.
I think that's fair. Anyone else?

[Greater Pareidolia]

Really? In name? Communist in NAME only? I...do...I need a break. Seriously. Can somebody spot me? How on earth can you say that when they did everything by the communist book?!

Ahhhhh yes. A Communist Book. A classic read. Written by the world renowned Economist: Karl Lenin Stalin. 10/10.
Come on bruh

Is there a point to that post or are you just being facetious again?

[Ministerial]

So in essence you are saying communism isn't that bad because Mao and Stalin weren't communists and since they were responsible for millions of deaths together, communism wasn't as bad as is commonly held. Revisionist much?

Mao and Stalin=/= communist.
Mao and Stalin= millions of deaths
so...
Communism =/= millions of deaths.
I think that's fair. Anyone else?

I think that's fair as well

[Settrah]

Really? In name? Communist in NAME only? I...do...I need a break. Seriously. Can somebody spot me? How on earth can you say that when they did everything by the communist book?!

Ahhhhh yes. A Communist Book. A classic read. Written by the world renowned Economist: Karl Lenin Stalin. 10/10.
Come on bruh

For someone egar to ask questions and learn more about the leftist ideologies he didn't know before, your levels of sarcasm and cockiness here seem rather misplaced.

As it stands, I'd be lying if I said I didn't believe a lot of radical leftists take narratives like Marxism as if they were gospel, and treat them like a secular religion. They take books like the Communist Manifesto, and place almost the same amount of faith in it as people would the Bible or Quran.

[Gages Icelandic Army]

Ahhhhh yes. A Communist Book. A classic read. Written by the world renowned Economist: Karl Lenin Stalin. 10/10.
Come on bruh

Is there a point to that post or are you just being facetious again?

Eh. 50/50. But when you think about it, you were assuming that communist had to abide by your single idea of what communism was. I was a jack ass sure, but I merely pointed out the absurdity of assuming a communist MUST abide by "the communist book."
But I will try control my words. My apologies.

[Conscentia]

Ahhhhh yes. A Communist Book. A classic read. Written by the world renowned Economist: Karl Lenin Stalin. 10/10.
Come on bruh

For someone egar to ask questions and learn more about the leftist ideologies he didn't know before, your levels of sarcasm and cockiness here seem rather misplaced.

As it stands, I'd be lying if I said I didn't believe a lot of radical leftists take narratives like Marxism as if they were gospel, and treat them like a secular religion. They take books like the Communist Manifesto, and place almost the same amount of faith in it as people would the Bible or Quran.

While there are people like that, that does not actually refute the argument that was made earlier.

[Gages Icelandic Army]

Ahhhhh yes. A Communist Book. A classic read. Written by the world renowned Economist: Karl Lenin Stalin. 10/10.
Come on bruh

For someone egar to ask questions and learn more about the leftist ideologies he didn't know before, your levels of sarcasm and cockiness here seem rather misplaced.

As it stands, I'd be lying if I said I didn't believe a lot of radical leftists take narratives like Marxism as if they were gospel, and treat them like a secular religion. They take books like the Communist Manifesto, and place almost the same amount of faith in it as people would the Bible or Quran.

I've been talking to a lot of Communist recently and have learned alot of the basics. If I had said something like that, I would totally accept the snarky comments it would invite. I only say and do to others would I would expect others to say or do to myself.

[Settrah]

For someone egar to ask questions and learn more about the leftist ideologies he didn't know before, your levels of sarcasm and cockiness here seem rather misplaced.

As it stands, I'd be lying if I said I didn't believe a lot of radical leftists take narratives like Marxism as if they were gospel, and treat them like a secular religion. They take books like the Communist Manifesto, and place almost the same amount of faith in it as people would the Bible or Quran.

While there are people like that, that does not actually refute the argument that was made earlier.

Do you deny Marxists envision a determined anarcho-communist paradise based on teachings from a book? If not. How does it not refute the argument?

[Conscentia]

While there are people like that, that does not actually refute the argument that was made earlier.

Do you deny Marxists envision a determined anarcho-communist paradise based on teachings from a book? If not. How does it not refute the argument?

Yes, I deny it - that's not true at all. However, even if I did not it wouldn't refute the argument that Stalinism and Maoism were only nominally communist as you've not actually demonstrated that Stalinism and Maoism "did everything by the communist book" - one could argue that they deviated from the book.

[Settrah]

Do you deny Marxists envision a determined anarcho-communist paradise based on teachings from a book? If not. How does it not refute the argument?

Yes, I deny it - that's not true at all. However, even if I did not it wouldn't refute the argument that Stalinism and Maoism were only nominally communist as you've not actually demonstrated that Stalinism and Maoism "did everything by the communist book" - one could argue that they deviated from the book.

Just to clarify, I wasn't actually referring to Maoism and Stalinism. I was referring to Gages Icelandic Army mocking and doubting the existence of a communist book.

I'm aware Mao and Stalin deviated. The former because of ideological differences, the latter for methological reasons.

[Gages Icelandic Army]

Yes, I deny it - that's not true at all. However, even if I did not it wouldn't refute the argument that Stalinism and Maoism were only nominally communist as you've not actually demonstrated that Stalinism and Maoism "did everything by the communist book" - one could argue that they deviated from the book.

Just to clarify, I wasn't actually referring to Maoism and Stalinism. I was referring to Gages Icelandic Army mocking and doubting the existence of a communist book.

I'm aware Mao and Stalin deviated. The former because of ideological differences, the latter for methological reasons.

I don't doubt that communist books exist. Am I misunderstanding or...?

[Settrah]

That was the vibe I got from this.

Ahhhhh yes. A Communist Book. A classic read. Written by the world renowned Economist: Karl Lenin Stalin. 10/10.
Come on bruh

[Gages Icelandic Army]

@Settrah

Really? In name? Communist in NAME only? I...do...I need a break. Seriously. Can somebody spot me? How on earth can you say that when they did everything by the communist book?!

Ahhhhh yes. A Communist Book. A classic read. Written by the world renowned Economist: Karl Lenin Stalin. 10/10.
Come on bruh

I wasn't saying there was one book. I was referring to the absurdity of saying a communist must meet Greater Pareidolia's specific idea of communism. Or as he/she put it, "the communist book." There are plenty of subsets of Communism with many different books. Otherwise Communism becomes a glorified book club.

[Settrah]

Ah ok then, apologies.

[Gages Icelandic Army]

Ah ok then, apologies.

No sweat. I could've worded it way better. Or not have said it. I don't have a filter. MY apologies.

[Sanctissima]

@Settrah

Ahhhhh yes. A Communist Book. A classic read. Written by the world renowned Economist: Karl Lenin Stalin. 10/10.
Come on bruh

I wasn't saying there was one book. I was referring to the absurdity of saying a communist must meet Greater Pareidolia's specific idea of communism. Or as he/she put it, "the communist book." There are plenty of subsets of Communism with many different books. Otherwise Communism becomes a glorified book club.

If one assumes it hasn't already been reduced to that outside of logical exceptions like China & Friends.

Because to be quite frank, in most mainstream Marxist circles, that's really all it is.

[Kubra]

Stalinism and Maoism were communism in name only. They were essentially fascism in another form. Also, there are a lot of things one could criticize a ideology for, but death wouldn't be my first one.

Really? In name? Communist in NAME only? I...do...I need a break. Seriously. Can somebody spot me? How on earth can you say that when they did everything by the communist book?!

it's apparently a book you've never read, otherwise you'd know the eschatology involved with the term.

[Imperial Union of America]

Regulated capitalism with occasional government intervention and moderate regulation has the best history of success in the 21st century.

[Pandeeria]

Stalinism and Maoism were communism in name only. They were essentially fascism in another form. Also, there are a lot of things one could criticize a ideology for, but death wouldn't be my first one.

Really? In name? Communist in NAME only? I...do...I need a break. Seriously. Can somebody spot me? How on earth can you say that when they did everything by the communist book?!

It's not wise to click on a thread titled "Communism v Capitalism" and not have a slight clue as to what Communism is.