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Cali National Guard Wants its Bonus Back, From Soldiers

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Cali National Guard Wants its Bonus Back, From Soldiers

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:54 am

16 days out from an election, here's a reminder of how far reaching a candidacy can be. Remember way back when, where we decided to invade a country that had nothing to do with an attack on the US while we were still knee deep in another invasion and occupation? And we just didn't have enough soldiers to go around?

Well, to keep as many Nation Guard soldiers as we could the military started offering signing bonuses left and right. Only...not so much.

Nearly 10,000 soldiers, many of whom served multiple combat tours, have been ordered to repay large enlistment bonuses — and slapped with interest charges, wage garnishments and tax liens if they refuse — after audits revealed widespread overpayments by the California Guard at the height of the wars last decade.

Investigations have determined that lack of oversight allowed for widespread fraud and mismanagement by California Guard officials under pressure to meet enlistment targets.


Good times. Over ten years later, after having accepted the terms and doing the time fighting a war they shouldn't have had to, someone figured out that someone fucked up and now the soldiers have to give the money back.

Like almost anything, there's no mustache twirling villain who thinks this is a good idea, instead a massive unmoving bureaucracy.

Even Guard officials concede that taking back the money from military veterans is distasteful.

“At the end of the day, the soldiers ended up paying the largest price,” said Maj. Gen. Matthew Beevers, deputy commander of the California Guard. “We’d be more than happy to absolve these people of their debts. We just can’t do it. We’d be breaking the law.”

...

Though they cannot waive the debts, California Guard officials say they are helping soldiers and veterans file appeals with the National Guard Bureau and the Army Board for Correction of Military Records, which can wipe out the debts.

But soldiers say it is a long, frustrating process, with no guarantee of success.


Well...and shame on the article being shy on the details here, maybe the National Guard Bureau...
In 2010, after reports surfaced of improper payments, a federal investigation found that thousands of bonuses and student loan payments were given to California Guard soldiers who did not qualify for them, or were approved despite paperwork errors.

Army Master Sgt. Toni Jaffe, the California Guard’s incentive manager, pleaded guilty in 2011 to filing false claims of $15.2 million and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison. Three officers also pleaded guilty to fraud and were put on probation after paying restitution.

Instead of forgiving the improper bonuses, the California Guard assigned 42 auditors to comb through paperwork for bonuses and other incentive payments given to 14,000 soldiers, a process that was finally completed last month.

Roughly 9,700 current and retired soldiers have been told by the California Guard to repay some or all of their bonuses and the recoupment effort has recovered more than $22 million so far.

Retired Commander Francis McVey of the US Navy makes a good point...
“It certainly hurts the credibility going forward if we can’t depend on the promises that were made to us when we volunteered to put our life on the line,”

There are two ways out of this. There's legislation-
The California National Guard believe it is under fire and it also looking for legislative help. A spokesperson wrote, “The California National Guard does not have the authority to unilaterally waive these debts., However, the California National Guard welcomes any law passed by Congress to waive these debts.”

But in order for that to happen, congressional 'support our troops' would have to against practice actually be support for troops instead of just meaning 'stop criticizing foreign policy you liberal pussy'. Or a bill to relieve this debt will be tied to repealing Obamacare and defunding ACORN just for nostalgia.

And then there's the natural class action lawsuit, better explained by the Snopes article on the LA Times article...
The Guard has reportedly recovered nearly $22 million in bonuses. However, a federal court could put a stop to the collection efforts by January 2017, when it rules on a motion to dismiss a lawsuit filed by Sgt. 1st Class Bryan Strother.

Strother filed the suit after a dispute with the Guard over $25,010.32 in bonuses, saying the organization conned him (and other members) into re-enlisting using the promise of bonuses. The suit calls for an injunction stopping future collection efforts and for bonus money that has already been recovered to be returned.

However, federal officials have filed a motion to dismiss Strother's suit, arguing that it was rendered moot when the Pentagon Defense Legal Services Agency ruled that Strother did not have to repay his bonus.


Strother's lawsuit is appropriately complicated-
Shortly after signing his re-enlistment contract in 2006, Strother says he was sent to Iraq and finished out the terms of his deal with honor and even appeared on a National Guard magazine. Three years later the government sent him a letter saying he shouldn't have received an enlistment bonus because he changed his military occupational specialty while serving in Iraq.
Strother says his military record shows he didn't change his classification and regardless, the statute of limitations on his bonus expired years ago. He says defendants are attempting to recoup bonuses from more than 16,000 soldiers in similar positions.
The class of veterans claims the National Guard and defendant the Department of Defense are notorious for failing to keep proper records and are known to "plug in to documents whatever they wish."
"Plaintiffs do not owe any monies to the California Army National Guard because the running of the statute of limitations makes the matter moot," the complaint states.
In the 20-page complaint, Strother says he wasn't allowed to contest the recoupment letter despite providing defendants records proving he didn't change his military occupational specialty.
"The refusal to acknowledge plaintiff Sgt. Bryan James Strother did not change his military occupational specialty is either intentional or shows a complete lack of understanding by the Department of Defense," the complaint states.
Neither the Defense Department nor Strother's attorney returned phone calls requesting comment Friday afternoon.
According to the complaint, the United States Department of Defense has mismanaged $8.5 trillion and that it uses computer software dating back to 1959. The "archaic accounting systems" helped contribute to defendants' decision to recoup bonuses from veterans.

As a snide aside, I can't get software from five years ago to work properly on my computer, so that last bit is kind of impressive. Where are they getting computers with punchcard drives?

So. Soldiers are still paying the price of the excesses of war ten years ago.

Which remedy is best? Which iceberg in the glacier drag race of bureaucracy will crash awkwardly on the solution first, the courts or the legislature? Who really should be on the hook for these payments? See, question marks. It's legit. Pitchforks and torches are $5 a piece, lines form in the back.
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Postby Geilinor » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:56 am

This is idiotic. Who was in charge of paying California National Guard members?
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:00 am

Geilinor wrote:This is idiotic. Who was in charge of paying California National Guard members?

Army Master Sgt. Toni Jaffe, the California Guard’s incentive manager. Currently serving 30 months in jail for filing false claims.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:16 am

The green weenie knows no compassion.

On a more serious note: Fuck you California, and the horse you rode on!!
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Postby House of Judah » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:28 am

Thermodolia wrote:The green weenie knows no compassion.

On a more serious note: Fuck you California, and the horse you rode on!!

Uh... actually that would be the California National Guard. They are funded federally by the DoD and while, at times, fall under cognizance of the state, at that time and I'm pretty sure continue to, primarily fall under the cognizance of the Department of Defense.

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Postby Imperial Union of America » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:29 am

I'd just let them keep the money. The bad PR is worse than whatever you'll be able to ever recover from these white vets.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:30 am

House of Judah wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:The green weenie knows no compassion.

On a more serious note: Fuck you California, and the horse you rode on!!

Uh... actually that would be the California National Guard. They are funded federally by the DoD and while, at times, fall under cognizance of the state, at that time and I'm pretty sure continue to, primarily fall under the cognizance of the Department of Defense.

The national guard units are state funded with federal assistance. The guard units aren't under federal jurisdiction unless the president federalize them.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:31 am

Imperial Union of America wrote:I'd just let them keep the money. The bad PR is worse than whatever you'll be able to ever recover from these white vets.

Do you think that only white people are veterans?
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Postby Imperial Union of America » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:32 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Imperial Union of America wrote:I'd just let them keep the money. The bad PR is worse than whatever you'll be able to ever recover from these white vets.

Do you think that only white people are veterans?



No, those are just the ones I care about.
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:32 am

Does Cali (/America) want a Bonus Army?
Because this is how you get a Bonus Army.
Last edited by Occupied Deutschland on Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:33 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Imperial Union of America wrote:I'd just let them keep the money. The bad PR is worse than whatever you'll be able to ever recover from these white vets.

Do you think that only white people are veterans?

Just...you know that was only in there to stir shit up. You don't have to play along.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:34 am

Occupied Deutschland wrote:Does Cali want a Bonus Army?
Because this is how you get a Bonus Army.

Well this shows that when it comes to governing Cali can't
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:34 am

Occupied Deutschland wrote:Does Cali want a Bonus Army?
Because this is how you get a Bonus Army.

Goddammit. Bonus Army. That was such an obvious comparison. Bad OP for not making it immediately. Bad. Shame. Fuck.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Postby Chernobyliya » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:34 am

>weekend soldiers want a bonus from the actual men and women who protect the USA

kek
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:34 am

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Do you think that only white people are veterans?

Just...you know that was only in there to stir shit up. You don't have to play along.

I'm already in a pissy mood over this.
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Postby Imperial Union of America » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:34 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:Does Cali want a Bonus Army?
Because this is how you get a Bonus Army.

Well this shows that when it comes to governing Cali can't


The pentagon is trying to get the money back, not california.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:35 am

Chernobyliya wrote:>weekend soldiers want a bonus from the actual men and women who protect the USA

kek

You have no fucking clue how the National Guard works nor what happened in this situation!
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Click for Da Funies

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Postby Cannot think of a name » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:35 am

Chernobyliya wrote:>weekend soldiers want a bonus from the actual men and women who protect the USA

kek

I think this might be a new high score in the reading comprehension faceplants.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Postby Shizune » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:36 am

I swear it seems like more reprehensible nonsense comes out of Cali than all the other states combined.

Must be something in the water.

Well, hopefully they pass the exemption or whatever they need. Trying to take back signing bonuses is extremely poor form.

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Postby Galloism » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:36 am

Obviously, Congress needs to act to fix this. I'm sure they will immediately pass a bill to fix this horrible miscarriage of justice.
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Postby Chernobyliya » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:36 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:Just...you know that was only in there to stir shit up. You don't have to play along.

I'm already in a pissy mood over this.

Stop starting fights where ever you go.
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Postby Trumpostan » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:37 am

And who was it that pressed the state national guards to "meet enlistment targets"? Are they also going to demand Halliburton pay back the money from its no bid contracts? Of course not, one law for corporations, and one for ordinary people like these Cali National Guardists.

Get Dick Cheney to refund it, rather than those men and women.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:37 am

Galloism wrote:Obviously, Congress needs to act to fix this. I'm sure they will immediately pass a bill to fix this horrible miscarriage of justice.

Hahahaha hahahaha
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:38 am

Chernobyliya wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:I'm already in a pissy mood over this.

Stop starting fights where ever you go.

What? I don't start fights.

I'm mad that my brothers and sisters are getting short changed by the nation the swore to protect!!!
Last edited by Thermodolia on Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
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Click for Da Funies

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Postby House of Judah » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:39 am

Thermodolia wrote:
House of Judah wrote:Uh... actually that would be the California National Guard. They are funded federally by the DoD and while, at times, fall under cognizance of the state, at that time and I'm pretty sure continue to, primarily fall under the cognizance of the Department of Defense.

The national guard units are state funded with federal assistance. The guard units aren't under federal jurisdiction unless the president federalize them.

CNG is primarily federally funded, and these bonuses were 100% DoD. That's why the CNG is asking Congress for help instead of the State House. They are under federal directive from the DoD to get this money back (which the DoD does to people in the USA, USN, USMC and USAF as well).

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