NationStates

The Two Jerseys wrote:"...so Mickey Mouse hung a 'whites only' sign on the gate to Cinderella Castle, and the Disney Princesses all lived happily ever after! Except for Tiana, they threw her out on her ass...THE END."

You forgot Mulan.

Community Values wrote:Remember kids, only oppressors can appropriate culture.

Makes me think, are the Borg appropriating alien cultures?

'your culture will adapt to service us'

Bogdanov Vishniac wrote:

Impireacht wrote:1. Yeah, a kid wearing a costume of a character he admires is definitely equivalent to people putting on blackface to mock black people.

When it involves putting on a darker skin-coloured suit to imitate a shirtless character's skin tone yeah it's kind of in the same league.

Impireacht wrote:2. That's what I was saying. Yup. So, what color is Disney supposed to make the costume to make everyone happy lol?

How about just not make the costume if it's not feasible to do it properly? Not every character is easily translatable into a good costume.

Impireacht wrote:3. Alright. I guess when Halloween comes around, I should go out and tell every non-white child dressed up as Harry Potter I see that they're "the wrong ethnicity" and "they're misappropriating British culture"... good point there.

AFAIK, beyond black hair and green eyes Harry Potter's ethnicity was never specified.

1. I assume it'd be fine if we had a bunch of kids running around naked save for a grass skirt and tatoos painted on then, instead of the costume, since then it's not imitating the skin tone. What the hell were they supposed to do for the character's costume?

2. Not make the costume for the Polynesian hero... but for every other main character in every Disney movie ever. Just because some white kid might wear the outfit when it isn't their skin tone. I guess they shouldn't have made Frozen costumes either because some little black girl who admires Elsa might try to culturally misappropriate Scandinavian culture.

3. He literally lives in Surrey, England. Look ot up. He's definitely white. Sounds British to me.

Technically speaking, even the whole movie would be "cultural misappropriation", since the writers of the plot, and most the cast, aren't polynesians.
Technically speaking, all people with non-English heritage in USA, speaking English, are performing "cultural misappropriation" on a daily basis by simply speaking English.
Also all the people who speak foreign languages are perfoming "cultural misappropriation".

That's why I think that the idea of "cultural misappropriation" should be totally rejected.

I think that Disney, acting in a very stupid way in such case, deserve to lose the earnings from such merchandise.

Just my two cents, as they say in USA: even that's "cultural misappropriation", of course just like the fact that I'm actually writing in English...

Look, the whole "change the skin colour" thing was not a good idea by the costume design team. I think most of us can agree on that.

But the part at the end with the "Well, that's not how I pictured him", that's kind of nonsense. It's a movie and not a historical documentary, or a serious, cultural exploration either. It's a Disney film. And I'm sorry, but when it comes to movies, sometimes things aren't the way you picture them. Now, Disney says they did research into the culture, and had advisiors in it, so it's probably not going to be objectively racist, like say, Peter Pans scenes with the tribe or the same thing in Pocahontas, which, I agree, doesn't befit a children's film. That means that it will be small things that will be picked over, which is rather heavy as well.

For instance, Jesus probably didn't look like he does in many children's film, (white, bearded hipster guy) but there's no mass outcry there. On a note that's not children's movie related, there's many movies that feature cultural stereotypes. Of course, most of these are billed as comedies, so parody is understood, but sometimes, lines are blurred. If you want one more example in a children's film, Shrek has an outrageous Scottish accent, yet that movie was praised, and no one seems to be attacking Mike Myers for "cultural appropriation".

Thanatttynia wrote:

Austria and Bavaria wrote:Welcome to corporate America, where ethnic values are treated like crap. It is not racist in anyway, because it's a universal problem. It's just that you only get outcry when it's a non-white group. As I mentioned above, businesses have turned this into this. They also seem to think Irish dress like this and that Scots look like this.

It's disgusting, it's insensitive, and it truly should stop. But it should apply to all Ethnic groups, not just a select few.

Insensitive, sure, but do you actually find it disgusting? Seems like a bit too strong a word. Appropriation of culture is something that has always happened, for as long as different cultures have interacted with each other. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter.

I don't have an issue so much with so-called "cultural appropriation" (which is really just a natural process resulting from the exchange of ideas) as I do with corporations making money by treating people's heritage like trash.

Impireacht wrote:1. I assume it'd be fine if we had a bunch of kids running around naked save for a grass skirt and tatoos painted on then, instead of the costume, since then it's not imitating the skin tone. What the hell were they supposed to do for the character's costume?

Again, this is why the costume probably wouldn't have worked in the first place.

Impireacht wrote:2. Not make the costume for the Polynesian hero... but for every other main character in every Disney movie ever. Just because some white kid might wear the outfit when it isn't their skin tone.

There are lots of characters that Disney doesn't make costumes for. Look for yourself. Some are feasibility problems, like this one.

Impireacht wrote:I guess they shouldn't have made Frozen costumes either because some little black girl who admires Elsa might try to culturally misappropriate Scandinavian culture.

Disney's Elsa costume is a wig and a blue dress. Nothing particularly Scandinavian about it.

Impireacht wrote:3. He literally lives in Surrey, England. Look ot up. He's definitely white. Sounds British to me.

Do people of African or Asian or whatever descent not live in England or something?

Genivaria wrote:

The Two Jerseys wrote:"...so Mickey Mouse hung a 'whites only' sign on the gate to Cinderella Castle, and the Disney Princesses all lived happily ever after! Except for Tiana, they threw her out on her ass...THE END."

You forgot Mulan.

Also Kidagacash.

As to the topic, part of multiculturalism is the warm, loving embrace of consumerism clutching onto your cultural clothing. Object if you like, Disney can pull it if they like, but it's not surprising and unlikely to be (if not downright actively not) malicious. Stupid? Maybe, in this case.

Bogdanov Vishniac wrote:Do people of African or Asian or whatever descent not live in England or something?

Yes, and by speaking English and having tea, eating some traditional English foods, and so on, they're performing "cultural misappropriation" on a daily basis!

Do you really don't see the dangers within such attitude of crying "cultural misappropriation"?

Chessmistress wrote:Technically speaking, even the whole movie would be "cultural misappropriation", since the writers of the plot, and most the cast, aren't polynesians.
Technically speaking, all people with non-English heritage in USA, speaking English, are performing "cultural misappropriation" on a daily basis by simply speaking English.
Also all the people who speak foreign languages are perfoming "cultural misappropriation".

That's why I think that the idea of "cultural misappropriation" should be totally rejected.

I think that Disney, acting in a very stupid way in such case, deserve to lose the earnings from such merchandise.

Just my two cents, as they say in USA: even that's "cultural misappropriation", of course just like the fact that I'm actually writing in English...

Er, in fairness, almost all of the main cast are polynesian, as are some of the writers.

The first Galactic Republic wrote:

Eol Sha wrote:You racist pig! Jasmine's a princess, too!

:p

Oil money.

Yeah, gotta keep the Sultan in a good mood!

Genivaria wrote:You forgot Mulan.

She's probably assimilated into white culture enough to get a pass.

Chessmistress wrote:

Bogdanov Vishniac wrote:Do people of African or Asian or whatever descent not live in England or something?

Yes, and by speaking English and having tea, eating some traditional English foods, and so on, they're performing "cultural misappropriation" on a daily basis!

Do you really don't see the dangers within such attitude of crying "cultural misappropriation"?

I agree with this, I really do. In the modern world, it's simply a hopeless task to call "cultural appropriation". Literally, you can string things along for ever.

What's worse, I've actually seen these exact sentiments used by actual racists as a justification.

Chessmistress wrote:Yes, and by speaking English and having tea, eating some traditional English foods, and so on, they're performing "cultural misappropriation" on a daily basis!

So you're saying that you think that someone who was born in England, raised in 'English' culture and who speaks English as their primary mode of communication but who happened to have ancestors who were born elsewhere isn't and cannot be English?

The Two Jerseys wrote:

The first Galactic Republic wrote:Oil money.

Yeah, gotta keep the Sultan in a good mood!

Genivaria wrote:You forgot Mulan.

She's probably assimilated into white culture enough to get a pass.

Pocahontas.

Killdash wrote:

The Two Jerseys wrote:Yeah, gotta keep the Sultan in a good mood!

She's probably assimilated into white culture enough to get a pass.

Pocahontas.

Sent on the trail of tears.

Never came back.

Merizoc wrote:

Chessmistress wrote:Technically speaking, even the whole movie would be "cultural misappropriation", since the writers of the plot, and most the cast, aren't polynesians.
Technically speaking, all people with non-English heritage in USA, speaking English, are performing "cultural misappropriation" on a daily basis by simply speaking English.
Also all the people who speak foreign languages are perfoming "cultural misappropriation".

That's why I think that the idea of "cultural misappropriation" should be totally rejected.

I think that Disney, acting in a very stupid way in such case, deserve to lose the earnings from such merchandise.

Just my two cents, as they say in USA: even that's "cultural misappropriation", of course just like the fact that I'm actually writing in English...

Er, in fairness, almost all of the main cast are polynesian, as are some of the writers.

Really?
That's even worse!
The pratice of making movies is a non-Polynesian thing: Hollywood wasn't in Polynesia last time I checked.
Polynesians mocking California's greatest symbol, Californians should get offensed!

They are also speaking English within the movie, that isn't their language..."cultural misappropriation", again.


See?
On such basis Disney should give up to the whole movie.
And Polynesians should apologise for "cultural misappropriation": making movies isn't within their cultural heritage.

That's why I reject the whole idea.
It totally lacks logical basis, and also practical goals: it's meant for annoying people.
At the end the annoyed people will react and they'll hurt the people who are annoying them.
There is nothing good to get from annoying people without having clear goals to reach.

Killdash wrote:

The Two Jerseys wrote:Yeah, gotta keep the Sultan in a good mood!

She's probably assimilated into white culture enough to get a pass.

Pocahontas.

So what about Elizabeth Warren?

Bogdanov Vishniac wrote:

Chessmistress wrote:Yes, and by speaking English and having tea, eating some traditional English foods, and so on, they're performing "cultural misappropriation" on a daily basis!

So you're saying that you think that someone who was born in England, raised in 'English' culture and who speaks English as their primary mode of communication but who happened to have ancestors who were born elsewhere isn't and cannot be English?

Perhaps not, but what about immigrants?

And what's my comeuppance? I had someone call me "false" and trying to "be black" because I happen to have a song by the South African artist Mandoza on my phone. I'm born and raised here, (I'm white) but somehow this isn't my heritage?

Bogdanov Vishniac wrote:

Chessmistress wrote:Yes, and by speaking English and having tea, eating some traditional English foods, and so on, they're performing "cultural misappropriation" on a daily basis!

So you're saying that you think that someone who was born in England, raised in 'English' culture and who speaks English as their primary mode of communication but who happened to have ancestors who were born elsewhere isn't and cannot be English?

Doesn't matter, according to "SJW's" (A word I don't use often) if you're not of the right skin colour, its cultural appropriation.
After all they were the ones who popularised the term.

Gauthier wrote:

Killdash wrote:

Pocahontas.

So what about Elizabeth Warren?

....

Can we actually put her on a reservation?

Killdash wrote:

The Two Jerseys wrote:Yeah, gotta keep the Sultan in a good mood!

She's probably assimilated into white culture enough to get a pass.

Pocahontas.

Sold her people out and married a white guy.

They probably made a statue of her...

n/m

Chessmistress wrote:

Merizoc wrote:Er, in fairness, almost all of the main cast are polynesian, as are some of the writers.

Really?
That's even worse!
The pratice of making movies is a non-Polynesian thing: Hollywood wasn't in Polynesia last time I checked.
Polynesians mocking California's greatest symbol, Californians should get offensed!

They are also speaking English within the movie, that isn't their language..."cultural misappropriation", again.


See?
On such basis Disney should give up to the whole movie.
And Polynesians should apologise for "cultural misappropriation": making movies isn't within their cultural heritage.

That's why I reject the whole idea.
It totally lacks logical basis, and also practical goals: it's meant for annoying people.
At the end the annoyed people will react and they'll hurt the people who are annoying them.
There is nothing good to get from annoying people without having clear goals to reach.

An exact example of the (real) arguments I've heard people use.

Now these people are actually racist. And they substantiate their belief, in this case in apartheid, by saying that, due to all the "gifts" we've brought, (read: electricity, automobiles, modern conveniences) blacks should be grateful, and those who protest can go back to their kraals.

These are actual arguments, and their claims are substantiated if you hold stock in "cultural appropriation".

Killdash wrote:Perhaps not, but what about immigrants?

If you embrace the culture you're living in as part of your own, it's not appropriation. The distinction here is that by wearing the costume you are not engaging with Polynesian culture respectfully - you're wearing sacred symbols and their skin colour as part of a costume for a non-Polynesian holiday that will be worn once and forgotten.

Killdash wrote:And what's my comeuppance? I had someone call me "false" and trying to "be black" because I happen to have a song by the South African artist Mandoza on my phone. I'm born and raised here, (I'm white) but somehow this isn't my heritage?

See above. Respectful engagement with a culture is not the problem here.

FelrikTheDeleted wrote:Doesn't matter, according to "SJW's" (A word I don't use often) if you're not of the right skin colour, its cultural appropriation.
After all they were the ones who popularised the term.

Again, see above. Appropriation is taking another culture's artifacts or what have you and not engaging them with respect, particularly if it's for someone's expedience, to make money or something equally frivolous.

Does it matter that much to people, its a costume, its not like they're tearing your skin off and having kids wear it. What happened to globalism? Oh I forgot it only matters when we want it to matter, cultural appropriation, how does it matter, sorry guys, stop speaking english or using all the tech we made in the west, don't want you to appropriate that. Heavens no. What have we become in the world? We are just babies and hypocrites. If you want something to be mad about go after something like, I dunno, something that actually affects you like Climate Change. Ugh, oh well, nothing I say can make people not be hypocrites or babies, I'll just go crawl back to the hole I came out of.