Missouri House to Force kids to say Pledge of Allegiance

[The New Sea Territory]

It is good for people to value that country because their country because its their ingroup.

Why is the ingroup objectively valuable?

Nations and the governments that lead them exist solely to safeguard the people.

So North Korea isn't a nation or a government now....

In reality, states exist primarily to defend private property. This is why city-states developed soon after agriculture, because land ownership had to be protected to function.

If you're saying it shouldn't stand, that would be suggesting you'd prefer an anarchy.

I would. Anarchism, stateless socialism, is something I prefer to the horseshit we have now, and I'll actively work to make that a reality.

To believe that you have no ethical obligation to your nation is to say you have none to your people.

My "people"? What do I have in common with some random person living on the West Coast, opposite of me? Nothing, besides some abstract drivel about "national identity".

It is the epitomy of treasonous thought and the greatest cancer of every society.

Awesome.

[Liriena]

In Argentina, for decades, many schools had this tradition of forcing their students to sing this damn song to the national flag every morning before classes. Suffice to say, I have not met a single fellow Argentinian yet who felt that their patriotism was in any way invigorated by that nonsense. All the contrary, really.

Don't be like us, 'murrikuh.

[Arlenton]

Why?

I don't admire this country.

Then why do you live here?

Why would he/she move? We are drowning in freedom here, including the freedom that gives him/her the right to sit there and be an asshole during the pledge if he/she wants to.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

In Argentina, for decades, many schools had this tradition of forcing their students to sing this damn song to the national flag every morning before classes. Suffice to say, I have not met a single fellow Argentinian yet who felt that their patriotism was in any way invigorated by that nonsense. All the contrary, really.

Don't be like us, 'murrikuh.

It should only be said on occasion in reality.

[Union of Christian States]

The state is just setting aside time for it. No one is actually forced to say it. The Supreme Court actually ruled it's unconstitutional to force people to say the pledge

[Seangoli]

Oh...shit. That's definitely illegal.

Pointing this out got you detention for 'talking back'.

It's at this point you should quietly go to detention and then politely inform the most local ACLU chapter of what your school is doing. I'm quite sure you would find yourself with some very powerful allies and your school with a very big lawsuit.

[Genivaria]

Then why do you live here?

Why would he/she move? We are drowning in freedom here, including the freedom that gives him/her the right to sit there and be an asshole during the pledge if he/she wants to.

Because Freedom is only good when they agree with your amirite?

[The New Sea Territory]

Why?

I don't admire this country.

Then why do you live here?

Perhaps moving somewhere else isn't economically possible for everyone? Perhaps I want to live where I was born, not because of nationalistic horseshit but because of emotional attachment to my home?

[Liriena]

The state is just setting aside time for it. No one is actually forced to say it. The Supreme Court actually ruled it's unconstitutional to force people to say the pledge

Screw 'setting aside time'. Schools exist to educate, not to indulge the ultranationalism of a few insecure politicians.

[Lavan Tiri]

This assumes that it should stand. Why?

What ethical obligation do I have to a nation?



Cool. This country also arms terrorists, exploits third world child labor, slavery and wars over resources (like diamonds), supports an apartheid state, kills innocent black people every other week, spends more money bombing other countries than it does on education, and regularly violates its own "rights" and "freedoms".

It is good for people to value their country because its their ingroup. Nations and the governments that lead them exist solely to safeguard the people. If you're saying it shouldn't stand, that would be suggesting you'd prefer an anarchy. To believe that you have no ethical obligation to your nation is to say you have none to your people. It is the epitomy of treasonous thought and the greatest cancer of every society.

Two things.

Firstly, a nation's government =/= it's people. I can love the people of America whilst recognizing that our government is shite. Secondly, the great thing about thoughts is that you can think whatever you want without fear of punishment. Also, treasonous thoughts created America.

[Genivaria]

The state is just setting aside time for it. No one is actually forced to say it. The Supreme Court actually ruled it's unconstitutional to force people to say the pledge

Perhaps at some point they could 'set aside time' to actually educate the students?
Crazy I know.

[The New Sea Territory]

Then why do you live here?

Why would he/she move? We are drowning in freedom here, including the freedom that gives him/her the right to sit there and be an asshole during the pledge if he/she wants to.

I'm sorry I didn't drink Liberty Prime's kool-aid.

[Tananat]

This seems highly illegal.

[Vavax]

The state is just setting aside time for it. No one is actually forced to say it. The Supreme Court actually ruled it's unconstitutional to force people to say the pledge

Perhaps at some point they could 'set aside time' to actually educate the students?
Crazy I know.

What is this heresy of actually teaching your students? It's not like that's what school is for or anything.

[Faustin Land]

It is good for people to value that country because their country because its their ingroup.

Why is the ingroup objectively valuable?

Nations and the governments that lead them exist solely to safeguard the people.

So North Korea isn't a nation or a government now....

In reality, states exist primarily to defend private property. This is why city-states developed soon after agriculture, because land ownership had to be protected to function.

If you're saying it shouldn't stand, that would be suggesting you'd prefer an anarchy.

I would. Anarchism, stateless socialism, is something I prefer to the horseshit we have now, and I'll actively work to make that a reality.

To believe that you have no ethical obligation to your nation is to say you have none to your people.

My "people"? What do I have in common with some random person living on the West Coast, opposite of me? Nothing, besides some abstract drivel about "national identity".

It is the epitomy of treasonous thought and the greatest cancer of every society.

Awesome.

No. A country acts in its own interests and thus, in the interests of its people. That you think Anarchism could really qualify as a working ideology is pure foolishness. If you believe you have nothing in common with the random people you live with on the West Coast, what makes you think you could depend on them in a state of Anarchy?"

[Republic of Canador]

The idea of being forced to pledge your allegiance to the state is terrifying. It should actually be the other way around. The government should be pledging its allegiance to the people of these United States.

[Lavan Tiri]

Perhaps at some point they could 'set aside time' to actually educate the students?
Crazy I know.

What is this heresy of actually teaching your students? It's not like that's what school is for or anything.

Lies! School isn't for education, it's for indoctrination!

[Seangoli]

This seems highly illegal.

The title is misleading. The Missouri Bill actually requires schools to set aside time for the Pledge once a day instead of once a Week. It does not appear to compel people to actually say it, however, at least anymore than the current laws in Missouri do.

While I disagree with the concept of having a Pledge in the first place (as it runs entirely counter to the values it is supposed to uphold), it's kind of silly as to how the OP worded the title. It's sensationalist bullshit, to be honest, and it's growing increasingly tiring to see this sort of shit from fellow liberals.

[Kazirstan]

No. A country acts in its own interests and thus, in the interests of its people. That you think Anarchism could really qualify as a working ideology is pure foolishness. If you believe you have nothing in common with the random people you live with on the West Coast, what makes you think you could depend on them in a state of Anarchy?"

If by "acting in the interests of its people" you mean "acting in the interests of the propertied upper class" then yeah, you're absolutely right.

[The New Sea Territory]

No. A country acts in its own interests and thus, in the interests of its people.

What happens when a state's interests come into direct conflict with the majority of its citizenry, like the majority of human history due to class conflict?

That you think Anarchism could really qualify as a working ideology is pure foolishness.

Oh, I'm sure you just read Kropotkin, Bakunin, Proudhon, Tucker, Malatesta, Goldman and Berkman before coming to that conclusion.

If you believe you have nothing in common with the random people you live with on the West Coast, what makes you think you could depend on them in a state of Anarchy?"

I don't think I could depend on them. Why would you assume I do?

state of Anarchy?"

Oxymoron.

[Neo Bavaria]

Then why do you live here?

Perhaps moving somewhere else isn't economically possible for everyone? Perhaps I want to live where I was born, not because of nationalistic horseshit but because of emotional attachment to my home?

Which is more important, economic well being or not living in a country you hate? Maybe the reason you don't admire this country is because you only see nations as a source of more or less profit than you are currently making at any given time.

[The Intergalactic Russian Empire]

The idea of being forced to pledge your allegiance to the state is terrifying. It should actually be the other way around. The government should be pledging its allegiance to the people of these United States.

I wouldn't say forced, it implies people are actually punished for not saying the Pledge (which they aren't).

[Neo Bavaria]

The idea of being forced to pledge your allegiance to the state is terrifying. It should actually be the other way around. The government should be pledging its allegiance to the people of these United States.

They're not being forced to say the pledge, the opportunity for students who want to say the pledge is just now offered daily instead of weekly.

[The New Sea Territory]

Perhaps moving somewhere else isn't economically possible for everyone? Perhaps I want to live where I was born, not because of nationalistic horseshit but because of emotional attachment to my home?

Which is more important, economic well being or not living in a country you hate? Maybe the reason you don't admire this country is because you only see nations as a source of more or less profit than you are currently making at any given time.

Maybe I don't admire any country, this included, because they are all shit, and I'd prefer nationalism be shown the door?

[Barboneia]

We have to do it in Pennsylvania. Or at least, Philadelphia and its surrounding areas. No one ever had a problem, and I quite admire that they have us do this.

Don't know about Missouri though.

I can attest to this, I live outside of Philly and we have to do the pledge every day. I don't have a problem with it, and the teachers don't care if we just stay quiet. We're just expected to stand up and put the hand over our heart.