DNC leak

[Occupied Deutschland]

He's just sabre rattling to try and get them to pay their damn membership obligations.

Sure, I should trust Trump to defend fucking Europe

You honestly don't have to.
Even absent the US, NATO is a military alliance Russia doesn't want to fuck with. Which is also ignoring that there's no benefit to Russia in fucking with the Baltics. All it would do is cost them all of Europe as trade partners, something which Putin's oligarch-friends would depose him over even if he were nutty enough to try such a stunt.

[Ostroeuropa]

If it wasn't worth it, they wouldn't have sent two thousand of their own servicemen to die in Ukraine.

Ukraine isn't a member of the western family. That it was trying to join is the whole reason Russia panicked and sent in troops right away, because they had no hope of ever getting Crimea back otherwise.

[New Werpland]

Not for Trump it fucking isn't.

He's just sabre rattling to try and get them to pay their damn membership obligations.

Damn NATO needs that one nuclear submarine real bad!

[Ostroeuropa]

He's just sabre rattling to try and get them to pay their damn membership obligations.

Damn NATO needs that one nuclear submarine real bad!

Imagine you've got 25 people around a dinner table and you've been forced to buy food for all of them except the 4 who can be bothered to pay for their own.
And this has been going on for years.

Every time you bring up that maybe they should pay for their own meal, they just go "Oh come on, you already buy so much, what's one more meal to you? We don't NEED any more food guys, we've got plenty!"

It's not that NATO needs that one nuclear submarine real bad. They already have it.
It's that America has to pay for it single handedly.

Like I said. If some of these nations fielded their own armies up to scratch, the US could downsize theirs. But that's straying pretty far from the topic I think, it's not as much related to the leak as russias motivation.

[Imperializt Russia]

Damn NATO needs that one nuclear submarine real bad!

Imagine you've got 25 people around a dinner table and you've been forced to buy food for all of them except the 4 who can be bothered to pay for their own.
And this has been going on for years.

Every time you bring up that maybe they should pay for their own meal, they just go "Oh come on, you already buy so much, what's one more meal to you? We don't NEED any more food guys, we've got plenty!"

It's not that NATO needs that one nuclear submarine real bad. They already have it.
It's that America has to pay for it single handedly.

Like I said. If some of these nations fielded their own armies up to scratch, the US could downsize theirs. But that's straying pretty far from the topic I think, it's not as much related to the leak as russias motivation.

Yeah, because it's not like Europe is one of three major global regions the US fights in
It's not like this place called China exists the US has to militarily oppose on the other side of the globe.

[New Werpland]

Damn NATO needs that one nuclear submarine real bad!

Imagine you've got 25 people around a dinner table and you've been forced to buy food for all of them except the 4 who can be bothered to pay for their own.
And this has been going on for years.

Every time you bring up that maybe they should pay for their own meal, they just go "Oh come on, you already buy so much, what's one more meal to you? We don't NEED any more food guys, we've got plenty!"

It's not that NATO needs that one nuclear submarine real bad. They already have it.
It's that America has to pay for it single handedly.

Like I said. If some of these nations fielded their own armies up to scratch, the US could downsize theirs. But that's straying pretty far from the topic I think, it's not as much related to the leak as russias motivation.

Yea because the Baltics really could contribute so much to NATO wouldn't they? If they all spent 2% of gdp on the military, their combined military budgets would buy a single nuclear submarine.

Having to pay for -1 nuclear submarines is not a meaningful change to the US's military budget. Why focus on the Baltics then? Because invading the Baltics is a constant meme of Russian rhetoric.

[Ostroeuropa]

Imagine you've got 25 people around a dinner table and you've been forced to buy food for all of them except the 4 who can be bothered to pay for their own.
And this has been going on for years.

Every time you bring up that maybe they should pay for their own meal, they just go "Oh come on, you already buy so much, what's one more meal to you? We don't NEED any more food guys, we've got plenty!"

It's not that NATO needs that one nuclear submarine real bad. They already have it.
It's that America has to pay for it single handedly.

Like I said. If some of these nations fielded their own armies up to scratch, the US could downsize theirs. But that's straying pretty far from the topic I think, it's not as much related to the leak as russias motivation.

Yeah, because it's not like Europe is one of three major global regions the US fights in
It's not like this place called China exists the US has to militarily oppose on the other side of the globe.

None of that invalidates anything I said. I've already said i'd also be fine with these nations simply paying America to do this. So has Trump. What's not okay is free riding.

China is likewise not going to rock the boat. Any conflict there is going to be of a limited scale. At the absolute worst you've got a naval clash with Japan over those rocks, or more realistically, an eventual Chinese invasion of North Korea. (Which we would be silly to prevent.)

Taiwan can be defended simply because it is, once again, a red line and everyone knows it.

[Ostroeuropa]

Imagine you've got 25 people around a dinner table and you've been forced to buy food for all of them except the 4 who can be bothered to pay for their own.
And this has been going on for years.

Every time you bring up that maybe they should pay for their own meal, they just go "Oh come on, you already buy so much, what's one more meal to you? We don't NEED any more food guys, we've got plenty!"

It's not that NATO needs that one nuclear submarine real bad. They already have it.
It's that America has to pay for it single handedly.

Like I said. If some of these nations fielded their own armies up to scratch, the US could downsize theirs. But that's straying pretty far from the topic I think, it's not as much related to the leak as russias motivation.

Yea because the Baltics really could contribute so much to NATO wouldn't they? If they all spent 2% of gdp on the military, their combined military budgets would buy a single nuclear submarine.

Having to pay for -1 nuclear submarines is not a meaningful change to the US's military budget. Why focus on the Baltics then? Because invading the Baltics is a constant meme of Russian rhetoric.

I didn't mention the baltics there.
Can you show me anywhere where Russians are advocating invading the baltics? Media or politicians?

You literally just did what I was talking about.
Sure, it's just -1 submarine. But if everyone does it, it amounts to a lot of submarines.

[Gauthier]

Imagine you've got 25 people around a dinner table and you've been forced to buy food for all of them except the 4 who can be bothered to pay for their own.
And this has been going on for years.

Every time you bring up that maybe they should pay for their own meal, they just go "Oh come on, you already buy so much, what's one more meal to you? We don't NEED any more food guys, we've got plenty!"

It's not that NATO needs that one nuclear submarine real bad. They already have it.
It's that America has to pay for it single handedly.

Like I said. If some of these nations fielded their own armies up to scratch, the US could downsize theirs. But that's straying pretty far from the topic I think, it's not as much related to the leak as russias motivation.

Yea because the Baltics really could contribute so much to NATO wouldn't they? If they all spent 2% of gdp on the military, their combined military budgets would buy a single nuclear submarine.

Having to pay for -1 nuclear submarines is not a meaningful change to the US's military budget. Why focus on the Baltics then? Because invading the Baltics is a constant meme of Russian rhetoric.

They can't pay for the Platinum Package cable subscription, so they're on their fucking own the moment Little Green Men pop up. *nod*

[Imperializt Russia]

"China isn't going to rock the boat"

[Ostroeuropa]

The point is, you're overreacting to this whole "IT WAS RUSSIA!" thing and buying into the scaremongering.

[Ostroeuropa]

"China isn't going to rock the boat"
(Image)

Already dealt with in the post. At he absolute most insane this could get, a naval clash with Japan over a bunch of unpopulated rocks. I don't care, and it would be stupid to start WW3 over it when nobody owns the damn things legitimately in the first place.

And once again, you're ignoring that nothing about that changes that Europe should pay its way and trump is right about that.

If you're so terrified of China, why aren't you more on board with getting Europe to pay the americans?

[Imperializt Russia]

The point is, you're overreacting to this whole "IT WAS RUSSIA!" thing and buying into the scaremongering.

Russia's got twenty thousand tanks and ten thousand nukes and is headed by a nutjob who looks like an ex pro-wrestler. It's a scary place.

This isn't "our glasnost". To suggest so is a failure to understand anything about Glasnost. Which was... not a comparable situation to this? In any way?
Nor is it of a remotely comparable importance to Glasnost. This is shitposting in party infighting. Gee, like the fucking Labour party is going through right now.

[Ostroeuropa]

All of this only serves to prove my point about how this is a distraction tactic used by the DNC.
They're corrupt as fuck, mad they got caught, and decided to frame the issue inappropriately in order to distract from it.

We can discuss relations with Russia in a foreign policy and defense context. This isn't an appropriate context for it.

That they get exposed this way and try to deflect from it is symptomatic of their entitlement and arrogance.

[New Werpland]

Yea because the Baltics really could contribute so much to NATO wouldn't they? If they all spent 2% of gdp on the military, their combined military budgets would buy a single nuclear submarine.

Having to pay for -1 nuclear submarines is not a meaningful change to the US's military budget. Why focus on the Baltics then? Because invading the Baltics is a constant meme of Russian rhetoric.

I didn't mention the baltics there.
Can you show me anywhere where Russians are advocating invading the baltics? Media or politicians?

You literally just did what I was talking about.
Sure, it's just -1 submarine. But if everyone does it, it amounts to a lot of submarines.

But Trump did.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33325842

The reason the Baltics don't spend anything on the military is because they are undefendable in the case of a Russian invasion. In principle it would be nice to have them all spend 2% of gdp but it's redundant. Latvia spending 2% of gdp on their military means infinitely less than Poland or Germany doing so.

[Gauthier]

I didn't mention the baltics there.
Can you show me anywhere where Russians are advocating invading the baltics? Media or politicians?

You literally just did what I was talking about.
Sure, it's just -1 submarine. But if everyone does it, it amounts to a lot of submarines.

But Trump did.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33325842

The reason the Baltics don't spend anything on the military is because they are undefendable in the case of a Russian invasion. In principle it would be nice to have them all spend 2% of gdp but it's redundant. Latvia spending 2% of gdp on their military means infinitely less than Poland or Germany doing so.

Spending 2% of your GDP only to still be Zerged by little green men anyways is a wonderful feeling.

[Ostroeuropa]

I didn't mention the baltics there.
Can you show me anywhere where Russians are advocating invading the baltics? Media or politicians?

You literally just did what I was talking about.
Sure, it's just -1 submarine. But if everyone does it, it amounts to a lot of submarines.

But Trump did.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33325842

The reason the Baltics don't spend anything on the military is because they are undefendable in the case of a Russian invasion. In principle it would be nice to have them all spend 2% of gdp but it's redundant. Latvia spending 2% of gdp on their military means infinitely less than Poland or Germany doing so.

He probably mentioned it because it means the people with the most to gain from the alliance aren't actually contributing to it.

It's downright conspiratorial to propose the russians did this hack so that Trump could change the situation to allow Russia to invade the baltics or whatever it is people think Russias motivation is.

No, I think it's more likely they just want Trump in power because they think he'll fuck up the USA and/or because he'll thaw relations with them.

[The Lone Alliance]

I didn't mention the baltics there.
Can you show me anywhere where Russians are advocating invading the baltics? Media or politicians?

You literally just did what I was talking about.
Sure, it's just -1 submarine. But if everyone does it, it amounts to a lot of submarines.

But Trump did.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33325842

The reason the Baltics don't spend anything on the military is because they are undefendable in the case of a Russian invasion. In principle it would be nice to have them all spend 2% of gdp but it's redundant. Latvia spending 2% of gdp on their military means infinitely less than Poland or Germany doing so.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/asse ... 80x439.jpg
Apparently Estonia isn't a Baltic nation...

[New Werpland]

But Trump did.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33325842

The reason the Baltics don't spend anything on the military is because they are undefendable in the case of a Russian invasion. In principle it would be nice to have them all spend 2% of gdp but it's redundant. Latvia spending 2% of gdp on their military means infinitely less than Poland or Germany doing so.

He probably mentioned it because it means the people with the most to gain from the alliance aren't actually contributing to it.

It's downright conspiratorial to propose the russians did this hack so that Trump could change the situation to allow Russia to invade the baltics or whatever it is people think Russias motivation is.

No, I think it's more likely they just want Trump in power because they think he'll fuck up the USA and/or because he'll thaw relations with them.

And I'm not suggesting that's what they're doing. Russia has no real reason to invade the Baltics. They have reason to promote anti-NATO rhetoric.

[Great Nepal]

And sadly, there's too many people with a hateboner for Hillary Clinton that they won't give a fuck about the possibility they're being played like pawns by Putin as long as they get their fix of confirmation bias to fuck up her electability.

What relevance does Putin's role in obtaining and leaking documents showing DNC impropriety have on topic, or credibility of the leaks; unless you've some evidence showing leaked documents were forged? As far as the issue of DNC goes, Putin is entirely irrelevant - he could have sent entire KGB to steal that information, and that'd still be irrelevant wrt DNC bias.

[Knootoss]

And sadly, there's too many people with a hateboner for Hillary Clinton that they won't give a fuck about the possibility they're being played like pawns by Putin as long as they get their fix of confirmation bias to fuck up her electability.

What relevance does Putin's role in obtaining and leaking documents showing DNC impropriety have on topic, or credibility of the leaks; unless you've some evidence showing leaked documents were forged? As far as the issue of DNC goes, Putin is entirely irrelevant - he could have sent entire KGB to steal that information, and that'd still be irrelevant wrt DNC bias.

The fact that Putin's authoritarian regime is trying to steal the election for Donald Trump seems to me a the bigger story than "some DNC staffers really didn't like Bernie Sanders and said so in e-mail format."

[Shofercia]

Putin and Clinton? They weren't even in office at the same time, at least not for long enough to make a difference.

Further.......

you know...Lend lease? Ring a bell?

Yep, sure does.

When Trump gets hacked by a Romanian hacker who got hacked by Russia's Government, let me know. Extra points if he takes sensitive material from the state department and uses a private e-mail account.

Wat?

You do know how Putin allegedly got top secret e-mails, right? If not, let me recap it for you. Romanian hacker tried hacking something Russia. The Government hacked him instead. Meanwhile Clinton moved her e-mails to private, (and largely unsecure,) server. Romanian hacker got those e-mails. And Russia acquired the e-mails from said hacker.

What's most ridiculous about this whole "Russia did this!" shit viewing it from the context of the cold war, which is what they are TRYING to get you to do, makes it absolutely obvious we should be thanking the russian government.

These people are basically saying that whenever the west tried to let Russians know how shit the USSR government was, we were being assholes.

Russia just exposed massive levels of collusion and corruption. This is our glasnost. But we're supposed to be mad at them?
These people are so fucking detached from the public.
The "But Russia!" argument is entirely reliant on xenophobia, and on hoping that merely because they're opposing our government, we should get mad at them.
No, they did the US a favor.

Our MEDIA wasn't going to report this shit, so why shouldn't russia? What's the functional difference between us trying to let Russians know their standards of living were shit in the USSR because their media wouldnt tell them, and Russia doing this for us?

"DEM EVIL RUSKIES! THEY OPPOSE THIS SYSTEM! YOU SHOULD BE MAD!"
Why? It's clearly a shit system.

I see no coherent reasoning behind this, and only two possible explanations.

The establishment figures are so far up their own ass and delusional they genuinely believe this is a good system worth defending.

Or

The establishment figures are just responding to this by trying to whip up xenophobia to distract from their own failings, in a year they were *fucking constantly* whining about how Trump was doing this. But I guess since it's Russians, it's okay.

Fucking. Fucking. What.

There's this place called Eastern Europe, Ostro. There's this guy called Trump who said he doesn't really care about Eastern Europe and what Russia does there because it's full of poor countries that don't speak English.

It's almost as though Trump getting in power is somehow in Russia's strategic interests.
Along with backing Brexit.
And funding CND.
And assasinating Belorussian journalists.
And intervening in the Syrian conflict to get there before the west could.

Do you, genuinely, think that BREXIT would've happened if the UK had a leader other than someone like David Cameron? A leader who gave a shit about the people? Take a look just how much of England voted for BREXIT and by what margin. If you think that Putin can influence that many English voters, you're giving him way too much credit.

As far as Syria is concerned, do you want a Middle Eastern Libya? Belorussian journalists - erm, I think that's more Lukashenko than Putin. And I doubt that he's Putin's puppet. And what's CND?

The point is, you're overreacting to this whole "IT WAS RUSSIA!" thing and buying into the scaremongering.

Russia's got twenty thousand tanks and ten thousand nukes and is headed by a nutjob who looks like an ex pro-wrestler. It's a scary place.

This isn't "our glasnost". To suggest so is a failure to understand anything about Glasnost. Which was... not a comparable situation to this? In any way?
Nor is it of a remotely comparable importance to Glasnost. This is shitposting in party infighting. Gee, like the fucking Labour party is going through right now.

You think he's a nutjob because that's how your media reports it. The core of his support revolves around demographics and standard of living. What do you think will happen to Russia's standard of living if Putin invades Europe?

What relevance does Putin's role in obtaining and leaking documents showing DNC impropriety have on topic, or credibility of the leaks; unless you've some evidence showing leaked documents were forged? As far as the issue of DNC goes, Putin is entirely irrelevant - he could have sent entire KGB to steal that information, and that'd still be irrelevant wrt DNC bias.

The fact that Putin's authoritarian regime is trying to steal the election for Donald Trump seems to me a the bigger story than "some DNC staffers really didn't like Bernie Sanders and said so in e-mail format."

You know what's a big story for me? That during the primaries, Republicans could've poured cash into Rand Paul. Democrats, into Lawrence Lessig. But no, the establishment wanted a rematch between Clinton-Bush. Now Trump can win. The RNC and the DNC are at fault. But of course it'll be Russia that's blamed.

[Great Nepal]

What relevance does Putin's role in obtaining and leaking documents showing DNC impropriety have on topic, or credibility of the leaks; unless you've some evidence showing leaked documents were forged? As far as the issue of DNC goes, Putin is entirely irrelevant - he could have sent entire KGB to steal that information, and that'd still be irrelevant wrt DNC bias.

The fact that Putin's authoritarian regime is trying to steal the election for Donald Trump seems to me a the bigger story than "some DNC staffers really didn't like Bernie Sanders and said so in e-mail format."

Why?
Given Trump's inevitable incompetence, any nation whose interests don't align with that of US, will want Trump to win and there is absolutely no reasonable expectation foreign nations are going to keep nose out. There is however quite reasonable expectation that DNC, and its senior membership will remain impartial towards all candidates in primary process - it's akin to evidence that judge was siding with prosecution in a case they were presiding over being revealed by mafia; of course mafia wants justice system to fail, but bigger news is that judge was siding with one party.
I mean sure government should be looking at if their system have similar vulnerabilities, and generally trying to stop espionage but that is separate issue altogether.

[Greed and Death]

The point is, you're overreacting to this whole "IT WAS RUSSIA!" thing and buying into the scaremongering.

Shouting it was Russia is like when a guy gets caught cheating and tries to make the conversation about why did you check his phone to begin with.

[Greed and Death]

The fact that Putin's authoritarian regime is trying to steal the election for Donald Trump seems to me a the bigger story than "some DNC staffers really didn't like Bernie Sanders and said so in e-mail format."

Why?
Given Trump's inevitable incompetence, any nation whose interests don't align with that of US, will want Trump to win and there is absolutely no reasonable expectation foreign nations are going to keep nose out. There is however quite reasonable expectation that DNC, and its senior membership will remain impartial towards all candidates in primary process - it's akin to evidence that judge was siding with prosecution in a case they were presiding over being revealed by mafia; of course mafia wants justice system to fail, but bigger news is that judge was siding with one party.
I mean sure government should be looking at if their system have similar vulnerabilities, and generally trying to stop espionage but that is separate issue altogether.

Be impartial, not trade emails emails making fun of ethnic names, and fire the guy who suggest we go after the Jew based on his religion.

The sad part as they are largely attorneys the first part of most of our careers involves doing document review reading emails for lawsuits and also reporting when emails point to insubordination as an incidental. If anyone should have know better not to put that shit on the work server it should have been these guys.