Abortion in Texas Fully Legal Again

[Galloism]

Even if we couldn't because of XYZ reasons, and the child was doomed to die, I would oppose using force of law to force her to give up a kidney (or a piece of her liver, or whatever).

And I agree, doesn't mean I'd have sympathy for her.

Oh I'd probably personally judge the shit out of her for it, but bodily sovereignty is a really big legal issue and shouldn't be violated lightly.

[Freefall11111]

Why do you keep calling a fetus a child? Do you ever hear a couple going "Hey, here's our kid" when discussing the woman's pregnancy?

Bad example because yes actually I have, but that's usually pretty late in the pregnancy.

Are you serious? I've never heard of such a thing. For example, I've always heard couples say "we have two kids and one on the way", not "we have three kids but one's currently stuck in a womb".

[Neutraligon]

And I agree, doesn't mean I'd have sympathy for her.

Oh I'd probably personally judge the shit out of her for it, but bodily sovereignty is a really big legal issue and shouldn't be violated lightly.

Shrug, I actually probably wouldn't judge her.

[Laurasia]

That is not in the same way. As I have said time and time again, unborn life deserves full protection from society and from us. Would you do in your child for the sake of convenience? Would you put your child to death to satisfy your own desires and wishes? I would hope not.

Why do you keep calling a fetus a child? Do you ever hear a couple going "Hey, here's our kid" when discussing the woman's pregnancy?

Because that is the proper term to use. Calling it a fetus would degrade the fact that it is a living being who is being nurtured in their mother's womb. As for my question, no one answered my question? Would all of you abort your unborn child if you had the opportunity to do so?

[Galloism]

Why do you keep calling a fetus a child? Do you ever hear a couple going "Hey, here's our kid" when discussing the woman's pregnancy?

Because that is the proper term to use. Calling it a fetus would degrade the fact that it is a living being who is being nurtured in their mother's womb. As for my question, no one answered my question? Would all of you abort your unborn child if you had the opportunity to do so?

It would depend on the circumstances.

Now, how about you answer my question?

You have twisted the terminology. The unborn child is within the born person's body, and that born person is their mother. They are being nurtured and developed within their mother's body. From the moment of conception, they have obtained their own form, separate from that of the mother's. Human reproduction is such that each of us arises from the same source. "Fetuses" require a place for their development, and such development should not be interrupted by outside forces.

As regards to surgical operations, and other procedures, no one should use another unless if they have full consent. Human beings can consent. Babies cannot. Babies are therefore deserving of protection by society, to help those who are unable to help themselves.

Ok, so let's modify it a little bit. I'm in a coma after being hit by a bus filled with undocumented immigrants from Mars. I therefore can no longer consent. I deserve protection by society.

You are fully conscious and able to consent.

Under what circumstances can I use your body against your will? So far you have yet to name one way.

[Genivaria]

Why do you keep calling a fetus a child? Do you ever hear a couple going "Hey, here's our kid" when discussing the woman's pregnancy?

Because that is the proper term to use. Calling it a fetus would degrade the fact that it is a living being who is being nurtured in their mother's womb. As for my question, no one answered my question? Would all of you abort your unborn child if you had the opportunity to do so?

No it's not, stop lying.
Your question makes no sense.

[Freefall11111]

Because that is the proper term to use.

Proper term? Really? By whose definition?

Calling it a fetus would degrade the fact that it is a living being who is being nurtured in their mother's womb.

If calling something what it is is "degrading", maybe you're just wrong and appealing to emotion.

And by maybe, I mean that's exactly what's happening.

Would all of you abort your unborn child if you had the opportunity to do so?

I've already answered this: I'm not a woman. If I got someone pregnant and they decided to abort, I'd support their decision. It's their body, and I'm not prepared to deal with raising someone anytime soon even if I was a pregnant woman.

[Arcturus Novus]

Why do you keep calling a fetus a child? Do you ever hear a couple going "Hey, here's our kid" when discussing the woman's pregnancy?

Because that is the proper term to use. Calling it a fetus would degrade the fact that it is a living being who is being nurtured in their mother's womb. As for my question, no one answered my question? Would all of you abort your unborn child if you had the opportunity to do so?

This is a bit of a moot point for me- I am a minor, cannot become pregnant, and do not intend to raise a child in the future- but no, I wou;dn't just "murder a child". Even then, nobody is putting a child to death. There is no child yet. It's literally a fetus.

[Ashmoria]

Um, no, it wouldn't be.

You clearly don't understand the concept of "self-interests".

Now that it is established that you all support abortion, what will be next? Demanding the ability to abort a baby already born until it becomes self-sufficient? Abortion on demand would be established to the extent that all one would have to do is show up at a abortion clinic and have their operation performed, no questions asked. No time for thought. Or for an altered decision. More than fifty-six million babies have been aborted over the past forty-three years in the United States. That is a huge toll.

a baby can be given up for adoption.

a fetus cant.

[Galloism]

Now that it is established that you all support abortion, what will be next? Demanding the ability to abort a baby already born until it becomes self-sufficient? Abortion on demand would be established to the extent that all one would have to do is show up at a abortion clinic and have their operation performed, no questions asked. No time for thought. Or for an altered decision. More than fifty-six million babies have been aborted over the past forty-three years in the United States. That is a huge toll.

a baby can be given up for adoption.

a fetus cant.

And they get really upset when you drop one off at the adoption agency.

[Libertalium]

Thank god. There is hope for this country. I guess the supreme court can be effective sometimes.

[Neutraligon]

Why do you keep calling a fetus a child? Do you ever hear a couple going "Hey, here's our kid" when discussing the woman's pregnancy?

Because that is the proper term to use. Calling it a fetus would degrade the fact that it is a living being who is being nurtured in their mother's womb. As for my question, no one answered my question? Would all of you abort your unborn child if you had the opportunity to do so?

Well first, actually fetus or embryo (etc) are the proper biological terms for an unborn human. Child typically refers to a human who has been born and is not yet reached puberty (although it can refer to ones offspring after birth, even if they are an adult). As to the question, depends on the circumstances.

[Laurasia]

Because that is the proper term to use.

Proper term? Really? By whose definition?

Calling it a fetus would degrade the fact that it is a living being who is being nurtured in their mother's womb.

If calling something what it is is "degrading", maybe you're just wrong and appealing to emotion.

And by maybe, I mean that's exactly what's happening.

Would all of you abort your unborn child if you had the opportunity to do so?

I've already answered this: I'm not a woman. If I got someone pregnant and they decided to abort, I'd support their decision. It's their body, and I'm not prepared to deal with raising someone anytime soon even if I was a pregnant woman.

Then why can't the child be given up for adoption. That would be a better option than killing it. And even though it is "their body", the baby within that body is not also their body! That baby is a separate, individual being from the mother, there only during the period of the pregnancy.

[Genivaria]

a baby can be given up for adoption.

a fetus cant.

And they get really upset when you drop one off at the adoption agency.

Oh dear god...

[Galloism]

Proper term? Really? By whose definition?


If calling something what it is is "degrading", maybe you're just wrong and appealing to emotion.

And by maybe, I mean that's exactly what's happening.


I've already answered this: I'm not a woman. If I got someone pregnant and they decided to abort, I'd support their decision. It's their body, and I'm not prepared to deal with raising someone anytime soon even if I was a pregnant woman.

Then why can't the child be given up for adoption. That would be a better option than killing it. And even though it is "their body", the baby within that body is not also their body! That baby is a separate, individual being from the mother, there only during the period of the pregnancy.

Adoption doesn't resolve an unwanted pregnancy in the same way that parachutes do not resolve the issue of cave-ins.

[Laurasia]

Because that is the proper term to use. Calling it a fetus would degrade the fact that it is a living being who is being nurtured in their mother's womb. As for my question, no one answered my question? Would all of you abort your unborn child if you had the opportunity to do so?

Well first, actually fetus or embryo (etc) are the proper biological terms for an unborn human. Child typically refers to a human who has been born and is not yet reached puberty (although it can refer to ones offspring after birth, even if they are an adult). As to the question, depends on the circumstances.

Like what. If you impregnated a woman, and did not want the child, would you sacrifice that child to the abortionist? Or advocate for its adoption? Would you kill a child just because of its physical deformities?

[Freefall11111]

Proper term? Really? By whose definition?


If calling something what it is is "degrading", maybe you're just wrong and appealing to emotion.

And by maybe, I mean that's exactly what's happening.


I've already answered this: I'm not a woman. If I got someone pregnant and they decided to abort, I'd support their decision. It's their body, and I'm not prepared to deal with raising someone anytime soon even if I was a pregnant woman.

Then why can't the child be given up for adoption. That would be a better option than killing it. And even though it is "their body", the baby within that body is not also their body! That baby is a separate, individual being from the mother, there only during the period of the pregnancy.

It's not a child or a baby. You've yet to answer by question. By whose definition does the term child, and now also baby, include a fetus? And by whose definition is a fetus an individual?

[Ashmoria]

Actually, abortion is the termination of support from another person's body. Death is the inevitable result of such termination of support.


So my life doesn't matter to you?

You don't value all life enough to force people against their will to use their own bodies to save the lives of others?

I have to ask a very sensitive question here. If any of you are women, then I apologize for any offense which may lay in my words. I have only been arguing for what I strongly believe is the right in this case. I have argued that due to biological, religious, political, and ethical considerations, abortion is inherently wrong. I have proposed alternatives; I have sought to explain my views; and I have made comparisons to other situations. I have answered all of your questions. Do not think that my views about abortion imply some fanatical belief in "male supremacy" or in denying women their rights. Everyone is fully equal under our Constitution, and has the right to pursue their lives in a free and democratic society. Should not that same opportunity be given to the unborn?

no not male supremacy at all. just a disregard for the rights of women and a lack of understanding of why women get abortions. elevating the rights on non-persons over the rights of real persons is, to me, a lack of understanding on your part.

[Galloism]

sacrifice that child to the abortionist?

Only if we're in the Temple of Doom and it's necessary to escape from the cult.

[Laurasia]

Because that is the proper term to use. Calling it a fetus would degrade the fact that it is a living being who is being nurtured in their mother's womb. As for my question, no one answered my question? Would all of you abort your unborn child if you had the opportunity to do so?

It would depend on the circumstances.

Now, how about you answer my question?

Ok, so let's modify it a little bit. I'm in a coma after being hit by a bus filled with undocumented immigrants from Mars. I therefore can no longer consent. I deserve protection by society.

You are fully conscious and able to consent.

Under what circumstances can I use your body against your will? So far you have yet to name one way.

A baby is completely innocent, and cannot have knowledge of how they were conceived. It is not their fault that they were conceived. If the mother was rash enough to have sexual intercourse without understanding the consequences, without using any form of birth control, and in a moment of abandon, then it is her fault, not the child's. She should deal with the consequences. If she did not want the child, that would be so bad for her: she would have to deal with it.

[Genivaria]

Proper term? Really? By whose definition?


If calling something what it is is "degrading", maybe you're just wrong and appealing to emotion.

And by maybe, I mean that's exactly what's happening.


I've already answered this: I'm not a woman. If I got someone pregnant and they decided to abort, I'd support their decision. It's their body, and I'm not prepared to deal with raising someone anytime soon even if I was a pregnant woman.

Then why can't the child be given up for adoption. That would be a better option than killing it. And even though it is "their body", the baby within that body is not also their body! That baby is a separate, individual being from the mother, there only during the period of the pregnancy.

Yes the woman's body is in fact still hers.
Your house doesn't become mine if I break in.

[Freefall11111]

sacrifice that child to the abortionist?

Only if we're in the Temple of Doom and it's necessary to escape from the cult.

I'm dying from laughter. Does he think that abortion is some kind of Satanic ritual?

[Laurasia]

Then why can't the child be given up for adoption. That would be a better option than killing it. And even though it is "their body", the baby within that body is not also their body! That baby is a separate, individual being from the mother, there only during the period of the pregnancy.

It's not a child or a baby. You've yet to answer by question. By whose definition does the term child, and now also baby, include a fetus? And by whose definition is a fetus an individual?

Many people refer to the unborn child as a baby. That has been a social custom for many generations.

[Galloism]

It would depend on the circumstances.

Now, how about you answer my question?

A baby is completely innocent, and cannot have knowledge of how they were conceived. It is not their fault that they were conceived. If the mother was rash enough to have sexual intercourse without understanding the consequences, without using any form of birth control, and in a moment of abandon, then it is her fault, not the child's. She should deal with the consequences. If she did not want the child, that would be so bad for her: she would have to deal with it.

So you can't name even one single circumstance where any other person aside from a fetus has the right to use another person's body against their will?

Doesn't that make your claim that you want to give the fetus 'the same rights' completely false?

[Freefall11111]

It's not a child or a baby. You've yet to answer by question. By whose definition does the term child, and now also baby, include a fetus? And by whose definition is a fetus an individual?

Many people refer to the unborn child as a baby. That has been a social custom for many generations.

You're wrong.

Now prove it instead of just making claims. So far you've yet to provide any evidence to suggest that the definition of a child, a baby, or an individual can include a fetus.