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60% of Germans - Islam Does Not Belong In Germany.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Does Islam belong in germany?

No. Islam does not belong in germany.
619
60%
Yes. Islam does belong in germany.
410
40%
 
Total votes : 1029

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Ostroeuropa
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60% of Germans - Islam Does Not Belong In Germany.

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu May 05, 2016 9:34 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... than-ever/


Angela Merkel on Thursday warned that Europe risks a “return to nationalism” if it does not secure its external borders, as polls showed support for the far-Right is rising in Germany amid growing fears of Islam.

“The future of Europe is at stake,” the German chancellor said in a passionate plea to preserve freedom of movement and the Schengen Agreement on border-free travel within the continent.

Even as she spoke, a new poll released on Thursday showed support for the far-Right Alternative for Germany(AfD) party is at its highest ever.

“Europe stretches from the North Pole to the Mediterranean. We must defend the Schengen Treaty and the external borders, or we risk a return to nationalism,” Mrs Merkel said.

She was speaking at a joint press conference in Rome with Matteo Renzi, the Italian prime minister.

Both leaders spoke out against plans by Austria to close its border with Italy at the Brenner Pass, to prevent migrants entering.

The AfD is riding high in the German polls on a wave of public discontent over the migrant crisis, and recorded its highest ever support less than a week after it adopted an anti-Muslim manifesto.

It is now in third place on 15 per cent, just five points behind Mrs Merkel’s main coalition partner, the centre-left Social Democrats (SPD), who have slipped to 20 per cent.

Mrs Merkel’s centre-right Christian Democrats (CDU) remain in first place in the monthly ARD survey, with 33 per cent.

But, perhaps more worryingly for the German chancellor, a second poll found the AfD may be in step with voters with its overtly anti-Muslim stance.

Only 22 per cent of Germans believe Islam belongs in their country, according to the poll for Bild newspaper by the Insa institute.

An overwhelming 61 per cent agreed that Islam does not belong in Germany — a central plank of the AfD’s new manifesto.

The poll found attitudes had hardened considerably over the past year, which has seen more than 1.1m asylum-seekers enter Germany, the majority of them Muslim.

A similar survey in Jaunary 2015 found 37 per cent believed Islam belonged in Germany, while 47 per cent did not.

The latest poll found opinion split over the supposed “Islamisation” of Germany, a key claim of the Pegida street movement: 46 per cent said they were concerned by it, while 39 per cent said they were not.

There was, however, more acceptance when it came to individual Muslims, as opposed to Islam as a religion.

Almost half of respondents agreed that Muslims who live in Germany belong to the country, while only 30 per cent did not.

“The majority of Germans considered the issue of Islam separately,” Hermann Binkert, the managing director of Insa, said.

“While they rejects the idea Islam is part of Germany, they firmly believe Muslims who live here belong to Germany.”

An estimated 4 million Muslims live in Germany as citizens or permanent residents.

However, he poll’s findings were not all positive for the AfD.

It found 49 per cent of Germans do not believe it can establish itself as a long-term political force with its current anti-Muslim agenda.

Only 22 per cent of respondents said they believed the party would last the course.



*Shrug*
I agree with them. This, coupled with the majority support for a muslim ban in the USA, seems to suggest that it's the beginning of the end for Islam in the west, and that establishment figures will have a harder time demonizing and shouting down the opposition to their immigration policies now and in the future.
Across most of europe, the far-right is rising in popularity both in electoral terms (Though less so), and in terms of controlling the political narrative of the public. I would say it's time for multiculturalists to abandon axiomatic belief in the equality of beliefs, cultures, and persons, or to come up with a better argument than just shouting racist at people. As the polls here showed, the only thing keeping the far-right out of power would seem to be that people aren't yet quite aware of how mainstream an opinion it is due to media being an ideological circlejerk.
I would also say that tensions will only get worse if the governments of the west fail to represent the will of the public, with predictable and tragic consequences. While the German public say there is a difference between Islam and Muslims, the policies proposed to combat Islam are essentially a ban on muslims (Ban minarets. Ban the call to prayer. Ban hijabs.) being able to live in germany and practice their religion.
For curiosities sake, I will poll NS on the same question.

Discuss, I guess.

EDIT:

Source on majority of americans supporting muslim ban:
https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/03/2 ... d-patrols/
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Thu May 05, 2016 9:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Khadgar
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Postby Khadgar » Thu May 05, 2016 9:36 am

Germany being hostile to a religious minority? Well I've never heard of such a thing!

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Republic of Tacos
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Postby Republic of Tacos » Thu May 05, 2016 9:36 am

Islam is a religion. As long as there is freedom of religion, Islam belongs in Germany.
Last edited by Republic of Tacos on Thu May 05, 2016 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Republic of Tacos
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Postby Republic of Tacos » Thu May 05, 2016 9:37 am

Khadgar wrote:Germany being hostile to a religious minority? Well I've never heard of such a thing!

Lol
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Escanthea
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Postby Escanthea » Thu May 05, 2016 9:38 am

Good. They're finally waking up to the truth.
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Postby Jamzmania » Thu May 05, 2016 9:38 am

Republic of Tacos wrote:Islam is a religion. As long as there is freedom of religion, Islam belongs in Germany.

Muslim presence can be tolerated, but that is different from "Islam belongs in Germany."
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New Grestin
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Postby New Grestin » Thu May 05, 2016 9:39 am

So, this is how religious freedom dies.

With thunderous applause.
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Acarn
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Postby Acarn » Thu May 05, 2016 9:39 am

Remember last time germany declared *insertreligionhere* doesnt belong in germany.... didnt go well
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Tokuopolis
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Postby Tokuopolis » Thu May 05, 2016 9:39 am

Freedom of Religion is a human right.
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Postby Ifreann » Thu May 05, 2016 9:40 am

Khadgar wrote:Germany being hostile to a religious minority? Well I've never heard of such a thing!

I just don't know how to react to so unprecedented a turn of events.
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Zeinbrad
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Postby Zeinbrad » Thu May 05, 2016 9:40 am

This, coupled with the majority support for a muslim ban in the USA

Gonna need to source that, first time I've heard of this.
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Tokuopolis
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Postby Tokuopolis » Thu May 05, 2016 9:41 am

New Grestin wrote:So, this is how religious freedom dies.

With thunderous applause.

Acarn wrote:Remember last time germany declared *insertreligionhere* doesnt belong in germany.... didnt go well

Good point. I doubt the German Government will go along with this.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu May 05, 2016 9:41 am

Acarn wrote:Remember last time germany declared *insertreligionhere* doesnt belong in germany.... didnt go well


That's largely the point.
Despite being the last people you'd expect to give in to the argument that this minority is not compatible, they have, it can't have been easy for them. A majority of americans also support a muslim entry ban.

I suspect over the coming months we'll see a majority of europe is in favor in one way or another of ridding their societies of Islam.
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There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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NewVinlandia
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Postby NewVinlandia » Thu May 05, 2016 9:42 am

Tokuopolis wrote:Freedom of Religion is a human right.


So too should be a people's ability to preserve its National and historical identity.
Last edited by NewVinlandia on Thu May 05, 2016 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu May 05, 2016 9:43 am

Zeinbrad wrote:This, coupled with the majority support for a muslim ban in the USA

Gonna need to source that, first time I've heard of this.


https://theintercept.com/2016/03/30/maj ... oll-shows/
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Zeinbrad
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Postby Zeinbrad » Thu May 05, 2016 9:43 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Acarn wrote:Remember last time germany declared *insertreligionhere* doesnt belong in germany.... didnt go well


That's largely the point.
Despite being the last people you'd expect to give in to the argument that this minority is not compatible, they have, it can't have been easy for them. A majority of americans also support a muslim entry ban.

I suspect over the coming months we'll see a majority of europe is in favor in one way or another of ridding their societies of Islam.

Please source.

Also, the only newsites I'm finding this story are...less then reputable.
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Postby Geilinor » Thu May 05, 2016 9:45 am

Republic of Tacos wrote:Islam is a religion. As long as there is freedom of religion, Islam belongs in Germany.

This^. Basic rights should not be decided by simple majority vote.
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Arkadacia
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Postby Arkadacia » Thu May 05, 2016 9:45 am

Starting to come around to 'mildly concerning' territory.

Anyways, my thought is that it shouldn't be an organized political force (No religion should be. Do you want dipshits in your government? Because that's how you get dipshits.), but long as they're obeying the laws of Germany, I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be allowed in.

Of course you've got the blanket punishment morons who want to kick ALL Muslims (or kill them) for the glory of "Europa" or whatever bullshit thing they're wanking off too, but you just have to keep them from getting a seat in government.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu May 05, 2016 9:45 am

Zeinbrad wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
That's largely the point.
Despite being the last people you'd expect to give in to the argument that this minority is not compatible, they have, it can't have been easy for them. A majority of americans also support a muslim entry ban.

I suspect over the coming months we'll see a majority of europe is in favor in one way or another of ridding their societies of Islam.

Please source.

Also, the only newsites I'm finding this story are...less then reputable.


https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/03/2 ... d-patrols/
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Utilitarian Garibaldi
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Postby Utilitarian Garibaldi » Thu May 05, 2016 9:45 am

Huh. The fact that this 60 percent claim is only being thrown around by the typical sleazy right wing media, and AfD has support from only 9% of the population according to recent polls, makes it all the more doubtful.

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Postby New Grestin » Thu May 05, 2016 9:46 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Acarn wrote:Remember last time germany declared *insertreligionhere* doesnt belong in germany.... didnt go well


That's largely the point.
Despite being the last people you'd expect to give in to the argument that this minority is not compatible, they have, it can't have been easy for them. A majority of americans also support a muslim entry ban.

I suspect over the coming months we'll see a majority of europe is in favor in one way or another of ridding their societies of Islam.

Germans don't have a great history of hindsight.

>Fights WW1
>Loses
>Versailles Treaty
>well, this sucks
>Fascism
>WW2
>Minorities don't deserve the same rights as us!
>This is the minorities' fault!
>Kill a lot of Jews
>Oh, and gays
>Maybe som gypsies too
>Everyone hates us
>Cold War
>Minorities don't deserve the same rights as us!
>Rinse, repeat
Last edited by New Grestin on Thu May 05, 2016 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu May 05, 2016 9:46 am

Utilitarian Garibaldi wrote:Huh. The fact that this 60 percent claim is only being thrown around by the typical sleazy right wing media, and AfD has support from only 9% of the population according to recent polls, makes it all the more doubtful.


UKIP doesn't poll at nearly 50%, but nonetheless. Also, the most recent polls are at 15% and rising for AFD.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Thu May 05, 2016 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Val Halla
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Postby Val Halla » Thu May 05, 2016 9:47 am

It's very concerning that people believe this. Irrationality.
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Zeinbrad
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Postby Zeinbrad » Thu May 05, 2016 9:49 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Zeinbrad wrote:Please source.

Also, the only newsites I'm finding this story are...less then reputable.


https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/03/2 ... d-patrols/

You didn't need to source a second time, I just happened to post the same exact time you posted the first time.

I have a feeling this is one of those "scary polls that lead to nothing".

My understanding is that one poll means nothing compared to multiple polls, so unless there are several polls saying something....I doubt this is more than a fringe.
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Utilitarian Garibaldi
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Postby Utilitarian Garibaldi » Thu May 05, 2016 9:49 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Utilitarian Garibaldi wrote:Huh. The fact that this 60 percent claim is only being thrown around by the typical sleazy right wing media, and AfD has support from only 9% of the population according to recent polls, makes it all the more doubtful.


UKIP doesn't poll at nearly 50%, but nonetheless. Also, the most recent polls are at 15% and rising for AFD.

Not according to Spiegel.

http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-965159.html

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