The Jewish Situation

[Virtannis]

So i find it funny that they now are insisting on a two state situation once they lost.

They refused a two-state solution multiple times throughout recent history.

I know, but because of that we ceased even trying- we shouldn't except the current situation as inevitable.

[Souseiseki]

Israel is one of the most tolerant nations in the world. My reasoning: despite Muslims and Arab peoples seeking their utter and complete destruction, and their numerous attempts, they have not taken measures to enslave, murder, or even degrade the Arab and Muslim populations in their nation. In fact, they even try to live alongside them. We should be heralding Israel for their tolerance and forgiveness!

the sad fact of the matter is that israel is actually quite racist and not even fellow jews are safe from discrimination

edit: oh right reminds me you do not get brownie points for not committing genocide

[Risottia]

"Us" as in "American Jews"?

As a whole American Jews seem a bit too much into supporting whatever the Israeli government does, even when it has been behaving like an utter prick with fundie undertones for years and years now.

That said, American Jews are so many that it would be quite stupid to think that everyone of them harbours the same political ideas as the most vocal parts of that group. So, meh.

Let me ask you guys a question.

We are pleased by thy use of the plurale maiestatis when referring to Our Lordship.

Do you think Israel would be an independent political entity if the Jews hadn't immigrated from Europe after the war? I think "Palestine" would have been partitioned by its neighboring countries. The Israeli government may be wrong, but the jews still need to support it, as non-jewish governments have proven in the past they couldn't protect us. That was the reason Israel was created, and that's why it's still around today.

About the birth of Israel - let's just remember that illegal immigration, terrorism and ethnical cleansing played an important part in seizing the former Mandate of Palestine.
As for the "non-Jewish governments not protecting us", American Jews are quite protected.

As for the policies of the Israeli government, Belgrade has been bombed by NATO for much less. And I really don't value the survival of countries a lot: people matter, countries are just an incident of history.

[House of Judah]

Let me ask you guys a question.

We are pleased by thy use of the plurale maiestatis when referring to Our Lordship.

Do you think Israel would be an independent political entity if the Jews hadn't immigrated from Europe after the war? I think "Palestine" would have been partitioned by its neighboring countries. The Israeli government may be wrong, but the jews still need to support it, as non-jewish governments have proven in the past they couldn't protect us. That was the reason Israel was created, and that's why it's still around today.

About the birth of Israel - let's just remember that illegal immigration, terrorism and ethnical cleansing played an important part in seizing the former Mandate of Palestine.
As for the "non-Jewish governments not protecting us", American Jews are quite protected.

As for the policies of the Israeli government, Belgrade has been bombed by NATO for much less. And I really don't value the survival of countries a lot: people matter, countries are just an incident of history.

The birth of Israel is a lot more complicated than that. Terrorism was actively being carried out by Arabs and Jews against the British and by Arabs against the Jews, and when the '48 war was going on, ethnic cleansing was being carried out by both sides (or did you think there were no Jews in the West Bank or Gaza prior to the settlements?).

[Republic of the Cristo]

Israel is one of the most tolerant nations in the world. My reasoning: despite Muslims and Arab peoples seeking their utter and complete destruction, and their numerous attempts, they have not taken measures to enslave, murder, or even degrade the Arab and Muslim populations in their nation. In fact, they even try to live alongside them. We should be heralding Israel for their tolerance and forgiveness!

the sad fact of the matter is that israel is actually quite racist and not even fellow jews are safe from discrimination

edit: oh right reminds me you do not get brownie points for not committing genocide

Got a source for that claim?

And the fact that they allow Arabs and Muslims in Israel without institutionalized discrimination ( despite their repeated attempts at their demise) gives you brownie points.

[Sichem]

Israel is one of the most tolerant nations in the world. My reasoning: despite Muslims and Arab peoples seeking their utter and complete destruction, and their numerous attempts, they have not taken measures to enslave, murder, or even degrade the Arab and Muslim populations in their nation. In fact, they even try to live alongside them. We should be heralding Israel for their tolerance and forgiveness!

the sad fact of the matter is that israel is actually quite racist and not even fellow jews are safe from discrimination

edit: oh right reminds me you do not get brownie points for not committing genocide

What

[Aethal]

As a Jew who has always lived in a relatively christian area of the U.S. (a.k.a. all of it), knowing how the U.S. has treated us in the past, and experiencing the overwhelming dislike of our Israeli favoritism among the populace, I've always felt relatively insecure in the U.S. So, nations from the states or otherwise, how do you guys feel about us, and what do you think of supporting Israel as a nation?

Jewish-Americans are bro-tier Americans; Israel sucks colossal balls in contrast.

[The Chinese Peoples]

Unless you wear one of those little, circular hats, or any other conspicuous Jewish garb, I probably can't tell a Jew apart from other people.

Thus, I treat Jews just like everybody else. Don't expect kosher stuff if you drop by uninvited, though.

[Souseiseki]

the sad fact of the matter is that israel is actually quite racist and not even fellow jews are safe from discrimination

edit: oh right reminds me you do not get brownie points for not committing genocide

What

yiddish speakers were discriminated against when israel was founded because they preferred hebrew. beta israel are treated like shit all around. the state is effectively dominated by azhkenazi jews and ex-soviets with mizrashi coming in second. and that's before we get into settlers. oh god the settlers. to the israeli governments credit they do seem to frown quite heavily on the practice of segregating azhkenazi and mizrahi jews.

e: no seriously things can get uttery ridiculous over there

[Nanualele]

My perception is that while most Americans support Israel and are not anti-semitic, most youth tend to condemn Israel and display antisemitic behaviour, probably because of natural inexperience and rebelliousness that (hopefully) changes as you get older. Because of this, there can be a hostile atmosphere in places like college campuses or internet forums.

As for Israel... I think the West Bank and Gaza have proven themselves incapable of sane self-rule. I am tempted to say a third power ought to take custody and enforce law & order in Gaza and the West Bank until such time as they can be integrated into Egypt and Israel, respectively- not that anyone wants to. It would be hugely expensive, dangerous, and everyone would hate on whoever does it, but, how else are you going to do it? I can't see the Palestinians ever reliquishing terrorism on their own.

[Sichem]

What

yiddish speakers were discriminated against when israel was founded because they preferred hebrew. beta israel are treated like shit all around. the state is effectively dominated by azhkenazi jews and ex-soviets with mizrashi coming in second. and that's before we get into settlers. oh god the settlers. to the israeli governments credit they do seem to frown quite heavily on the practice of segregating azhkenazi and mizrahi jews.

e: no seriously things can get uttery ridiculous over there

Oh, you're talking about that. To be fair, here in Haifa most of us are pretty cool and not interested in all this discrimination thing, so I didn't catch what you were talking about at first.

I wouldn't really dramatize it, though. It's less "discrimination" and more "confusion due to dozens of communities reuniting in the span of a few decades after thousands of years of separation". Jews are still people, and people are influenced by their environment and often not as understanding of different cultures than their own.

When the Sabra will become the absolute majority, the discrimination between Jews will become miniscule if non-existent.

[Zaldakki]

Israel and France are two of my favorite foreign countries.

[Spiffier]

I think "Jewish" should be an ethnicity factored in things like college and affirmative action.

[Cetacea]

I think "Jewish" should be an ethnicity factored in things like college and affirmative action.

why?
should Catholic, Hindu, Huguenots or Mennonites also be considered?

[Spiffier]

I think "Jewish" should be an ethnicity factored in things like college and affirmative action.

why?
should Catholic, Hindu, Huguenots or Mennonites also be considered?

Those aren't considered ethnicities. It's not considered racist to dislike Catholics, for instance.

[Cetacea]

why?
should Catholic, Hindu, Huguenots or Mennonites also be considered?

Those aren't considered ethnicities. It's not considered racist to dislike Catholics, for instance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Mennonite

if wikipedia isn't a good source then - Yazidis, Copts, Sikhs? there's quite a few ethno-religious groups

[Spiffier]

Those aren't considered ethnicities. It's not considered racist to dislike Catholics, for instance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Mennonite

if wikipedia isn't a good source then - Yazidis, Copts, Sikhs? there's quite a few ethno-religious groups

I don't know how many people in Egypt identify as Copts who are not Christian. I do know that are many people who identify as Jewish who are not remotely religious.

[Zaldakki]

why?
should Catholic, Hindu, Huguenots or Mennonites also be considered?

Those aren't considered ethnicities. It's not considered racist to dislike Catholics, for instance.

Muslims aren't am ethnicity, but islamophobia is considered racist.

[Spiffier]

Those aren't considered ethnicities. It's not considered racist to dislike Catholics, for instance.

Muslims aren't am ethnicity, but islamophobia is considered racist.

No one who doesn't practice Islam and thinks God is a joke, identifies as Muslim. There are many people who don't practice Judaism and think God is a joke, and identify as Jewish.

Hating Muslims isn't racism. Hating Arabs is. Hating Muslims as a religion, divorced from ethnicity, isn't racism anymore than hating Scientologists is.

[Spiffier]

Muslims aren't am ethnicity

Also, while not in the United States, in other countries Islam is somewhat of an ethnicity. For instance, in Egypt and Syria, Muslims identify as Arabs, whereas Christians there identify as Copt and Syriacs, respectively, even though the people are basically the same otherwise, this is because the Arab ethnicity was imposed by Muslim conquerors. This is a strong correlation rather than with Judaism, which is a definitive ethnicity beyond religion. Sarah Silverman is certainly Jewish. Sarah Silverman is, however, not, by any remote stretch, to be identified with the Jewish religion. There are many non-Muslim Arabs. There are not people who say they are Muslim but bear contempt for the religion of Islam.

[Cobeidha]

My opinion of Israel, as an Arab Muslim, is that it's here and its not going anywhere. I have accepted it, and many people like me do. Especially in the Gulf, I am Kuwaiti. While I am OK with Israel being around, it doesn't excuse them in building settlements in the West Bank. If they continue their expansions in teh West Bank, it would lead to total dissolution of teh Palestinian Authority and the protection of Palestinians would fall to the Israeli Government.

Another user gave a very good solution to the problem. Israel and Palestine should be temporarily a Binational for a few decades so that Palestine has time to build itself up and become a stable country, removal of illegal settlements will be top priority and large settlements such as Ariel would be given to Israel in exchange for empty land, or even large cities such as Nazareth, or even the Arab Triangle in the North. As teh lives of the Palestinians get better, there will be less extremism and people will be content with what they have.

As for blame. I blame both nations for prolonging the conflict and that both nations should get their acts together so they can end this bloodshed once and for all. Netanyahu and Abbas are idiots and should be sacked. I believe that the Zionist camp has a better plan for peace than Likud could ever do, if tehy even attempted to make a sensible peace plan. I personally believe that the Arab Peace Initiative, with some modifications for potential Land swaps and a timeline for the development of Palestine in a temporary Binational state, is the best solution. Everybody wins.

[Infected Mushroom]

I think the USA should stop supporting Israel, its simply not in the US national interest.

[Risottia]

in Egypt and Syria, Muslims identify as Arabs,

I guess the Kurds would raise some objection here.

[Spiffier]

in Egypt and Syria, Muslims identify as Arabs,

I guess the Kurds would raise some objection here.

That's because they stood up to a lot of efforts to have their ethnic identity eradicated, and they've often had to suffer tremendously for it.

[USS Monitor]

Also wrong.

Unless it is rooted in an absolute rejection of nation states as homelands for ethnic groups (which represents the vast majority of nation states, so good luck with that) Antizionism is the singling out of the Jewish people as being not deserving somehow of their own homeland which is Antisemetic.

It's really got nothing to do with whether the Jews deserve a homeland or not. Some ethnic groups have their own nation states and some don't. That's a privilege, not a right. I don't think it's important whether Jews get that privilege or not. What is important is that everyone should have their rights respected before we start worrying about privileges. And that's the problem: not everyone's rights are being respected. The problem is that there are Israeli leaders putting Jewish privileges above Palestinian rights.