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Europe just after the end of WW II

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Rio Cana
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Europe just after the end of WW II

Postby Rio Cana » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:26 pm

I know that at the end of WW II, millions of Germans/ethnic Germans that were scattered throughout Europe, mainly Eastern Europe, were forcibly moved to Germany proper which at the end of WW II was 25% smaller. Now what I did not know and which is not known much outside of Germany is that these Germans and ethnic Germans, mostly civilians, were put through the meat grinder. Kids were also thrown into the meat grinder. In Czechoslovakia they were targeted. Czechoslovakia, the land of friendly people, turned vicious on the ethnic Germans. Then there was Poland which had to deal with the 16 million leftover German civilians that had moved in. Some were treated like the Jewish Europeans had been treated in German. The Germans were even sent to the same places the Germans had kept the Jewish Europeans.

Now I understand that much of this was pay back from the people who had suffered or had had there families eliminated by the Germans during occupation. The Germans had done many atrocities during the war. But including in these attacks against ethnic Germans were some Germans who were not fascist and had fought the fascist.

So what do you think. Should the victors had been a little more civilized when it came to the Germans civilians or not. Looking back from the 21 century, we all agree this should never have happened and it should have been stopped. But if you had gone through the German occupation, especially back then, would you still think the same way.

The lesson from all this is keep your politicians on a thick short lease since the things they do can come back and bite you hard even though you and your fellow compatriots had no input in any decision they made. Unfortunately, the Germans learned this lesson the hard way.
Last edited by Rio Cana on Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ashworth-Attwater
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Postby Ashworth-Attwater » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:38 pm

i think ethnic cleansing is bad. who's with me?
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Socialist Tera
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Postby Socialist Tera » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:42 pm

The Germans deserve it for electing dangerous leaders. They had ample time to shot Hitler.
Last edited by Socialist Tera on Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:48 pm

Socialist Tera wrote:The Germans deserve it for electing dangerous leaders. They had ample time to shot Hitler.


They tried, many times.
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Postby Eisarn-Ara » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:55 pm

Socialist Tera wrote:The Germans deserve it for electing dangerous leaders. They had ample time to shot Hitler.



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Tyska
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Postby Tyska » Sun May 01, 2016 12:14 pm

Socialist Tera wrote:The Germans deserve it for electing dangerous leaders. They had ample time to shot Hitler.


And so the Germans in order to justify atrocities committed during the war can use the same logic and say:
"The (Soviets, British, Americans, French, etc...) deserved it for electing dangerous leaders. The had ample time to shoot (Stalin, Churchill, Roosevelt, etc...)"

Talk about a slippery slope.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun May 01, 2016 12:18 pm

The Brutality against many German civilians was not needed at all, but at the same time the people of Europe, especially Eastern Europe had endured brutal occupations and attempts at ethnic cleansing at the hands of the Germans, so its honestly not that hard to see why they would attack like that once the war ended. I am not justifying it and think it went way out of proportion and should have been reserved for those actually carried out the crimes of the german government and military and those who had a hand in it, but it its somewhat understandable for why it happened.

And to be honest, probably would not have been able to stop it even if they tried. Well not all of it anyway. If i had personally went through it back then, and had my family go through, honestly dont know what my view would be, i hope i wouldnt do it but, i dont know really.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Sun May 01, 2016 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun May 01, 2016 12:21 pm

Socialist Tera wrote:The Germans deserve it for electing dangerous leaders. They had ample time to shot Hitler.

So did the allied commanders.

They decided the risk of someone competent taking command was too great.
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Czervenika
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Postby Czervenika » Sun May 01, 2016 12:21 pm

It's usually overlooked since, you know, victors write history and all that, but the Allies in many way were just as awful as the Axis. Britain, for example, firebombed entire German cities. Where were the trials for that? Oh right, there wasn't any.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun May 01, 2016 12:23 pm

Czervenika wrote:It's usually overlooked since, you know, victors write history and all that, but the Allies in many way were just as awful as the Axis. Britain, for example, firebombed entire German cities. Where were the trials for that? Oh right, there wasn't any.

Did we put the Nazis on trial for firebombing British cities?
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Sun May 01, 2016 12:24 pm

weren't the countries behind the iron curtain encouraged in this by the USSR in order to punish supposed former Nazis and other potential opponents of the new regimes?
whatever

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Czervenika
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Postby Czervenika » Sun May 01, 2016 12:25 pm

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Czervenika wrote:It's usually overlooked since, you know, victors write history and all that, but the Allies in many way were just as awful as the Axis. Britain, for example, firebombed entire German cities. Where were the trials for that? Oh right, there wasn't any.

Did we put the Nazis on trial for firebombing British cities?


The Germans didn't firebomb British cities. They bombed them, but didn't set fire to them. Entirely different scenario.
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Elepis
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Postby Elepis » Sun May 01, 2016 12:26 pm

Some were treated like the Jewish Europeans had been treated in German


Really? How many Germans were gassed in death camps of shot in their thousands? Yes, it was bad what happened to the Germans after WW2 but it does NOT in any way compare to what Jews (and many, many others) went through at the hands of the SS and Nazi Party.
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Not sure that'll work on Elepis considering he dislikes (from what I've observed):
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B: Religion being taken seriously
C: The Irish"

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Elepis
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Postby Elepis » Sun May 01, 2016 12:27 pm

Czervenika wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Did we put the Nazis on trial for firebombing British cities?


The Germans didn't firebomb British cities. They bombed them, but didn't set fire to them. Entirely different scenario.


Coventry?
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Not sure that'll work on Elepis considering he dislikes (from what I've observed):
A: Nationalism
B: Religion being taken seriously
C: The Irish"

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun May 01, 2016 12:30 pm

Elepis wrote:
Czervenika wrote:
The Germans didn't firebomb British cities. They bombed them, but didn't set fire to them. Entirely different scenario.


Coventry?

London? Liverpool?
Anywhere else?
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Eternal scar of the firebombing of Liverpool, the second most heavily bombed area of Britain during the war.
Last edited by Imperializt Russia on Sun May 01, 2016 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mefpan
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Postby Mefpan » Sun May 01, 2016 12:31 pm

Did the treatment of Germans after WW2 suck? Yeah. I'd appreciate it if we hadn't been fucked over quite as badly just because Stalin had to go ahead and continue playing the ever-popular game of "Where is Poland on the map of Europe now?" by nudging it further west.

However, the decision made by Germany upon reunification - that is, to finally renounce any remaining claims east of the Oder-Neiße line - was the right one. Little point to wanting that dirt back if there's no significant number of Germans left there.
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The balkens
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Postby The balkens » Sun May 01, 2016 12:32 pm

Mefpan wrote:Did the treatment of Germans after WW2 suck? Yeah. I'd appreciate it if we hadn't been fucked over quite as badly just because Stalin had to go ahead and continue playing the ever-popular game of "Where is Poland on the map of Europe now?" by nudging it further west.

However, the decision made by Germany upon reunification - that is, to finally renounce any remaining claims east of the Oder-Neiße line - was the right one. Little point to wanting that dirt back if there's no significant number of Germans left there.


not like the soviets exterminated any that remained.

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Elepis
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Postby Elepis » Sun May 01, 2016 12:33 pm

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Elepis wrote:
Coventry?

London? Liverpool?
Anywhere else?


and outside Britain, Rotterdam, Stalingrad, Warsaw, Leningrad etc

Over 70 million people died in the War, both sides did terrible thing but the vast majority were committed by the Axis and it is entirely incomprehensible to say the Allies were as bad as the Axis. Yes the Red Army treated German prisoners horrendously, the bombing of Dresden was useless and horrific but compared to the Holocaust and Nazi crimes? No comparison.
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Not sure that'll work on Elepis considering he dislikes (from what I've observed):
A: Nationalism
B: Religion being taken seriously
C: The Irish"

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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Sun May 01, 2016 12:38 pm

I'm not seeing any problem with deporting people who are only in your country because their country invaded your country and is trying to colonize it.

And in Czechoslovakia's case, when Germany justifies their invasion of your country by claiming that your land belongs to them because ethnic Germans live there, throwing all those ethnic Germans out on their asses is a pretty reasonable reaction.
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Tyska
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Postby Tyska » Sun May 01, 2016 12:39 pm

Elepis wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:London? Liverpool?
Anywhere else?


and outside Britain, Rotterdam, Stalingrad, Warsaw, Leningrad etc

Over 70 million people died in the War, both sides did terrible thing but the vast majority were committed by the Axis and it is entirely incomprehensible to say the Allies were as bad as the Axis. Yes the Red Army treated German prisoners horrendously, the bombing of Dresden was useless and horrific but compared to the Holocaust and Nazi crimes? No comparison.


Here comes 'muh Holocaust TM' again...
What was it 6 million or 11 million for you? Even though official figures have reduced it to around 1,500,000 in general and still going down...
Last edited by Tyska on Sun May 01, 2016 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ganos Lao
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Postby Ganos Lao » Sun May 01, 2016 12:40 pm

Just be thankful it wasn't Operation Vegetarian that got implemented.



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Elepis
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Postby Elepis » Sun May 01, 2016 12:44 pm

Tyska wrote:
Elepis wrote:
and outside Britain, Rotterdam, Stalingrad, Warsaw, Leningrad etc

Over 70 million people died in the War, both sides did terrible thing but the vast majority were committed by the Axis and it is entirely incomprehensible to say the Allies were as bad as the Axis. Yes the Red Army treated German prisoners horrendously, the bombing of Dresden was useless and horrific but compared to the Holocaust and Nazi crimes? No comparison.


Here comes 'muh Holocaust TM' again...
What was it 6 million or 11 million for you? Even though official figures have reduced it to around 1,500,000 in general and still going down...


Oh boy, holocaust denier right? perhaps you know where my family went

It is impossible to know how many people exactly in the Holocaust but best estimates put it at around 10 million (including 6 million jews). What are these official figures you mention? Are they from Professor Fascist Von Nazi at Golden Dawn Polytechnic?
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Not sure that'll work on Elepis considering he dislikes (from what I've observed):
A: Nationalism
B: Religion being taken seriously
C: The Irish"

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Czervenika
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Postby Czervenika » Sun May 01, 2016 12:44 pm

Tyska wrote:
Elepis wrote:
and outside Britain, Rotterdam, Stalingrad, Warsaw, Leningrad etc

Over 70 million people died in the War, both sides did terrible thing but the vast majority were committed by the Axis and it is entirely incomprehensible to say the Allies were as bad as the Axis. Yes the Red Army treated German prisoners horrendously, the bombing of Dresden was useless and horrific but compared to the Holocaust and Nazi crimes? No comparison.


Here comes 'muh Holocaust TM' again...
What was it 6 million or 11 million for you? Even though official figures have reduced it to around 1,500,000 in general and still going down...


Oh look, we have a Holocaust denier on board, or "holocaust revisionist" or whatever the hell they're calling themselves these days.
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Elepis
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Postby Elepis » Sun May 01, 2016 12:45 pm

Ganos Lao wrote:Just be thankful it wasn't Operation Vegetarian that got implemented.


The British, we are such a lovely people. But that is seriously disturbing and would not have worked
"Krugmar - Today at 10:00 PM
Not sure that'll work on Elepis considering he dislikes (from what I've observed):
A: Nationalism
B: Religion being taken seriously
C: The Irish"

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Vatyrzom
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Postby Vatyrzom » Sun May 01, 2016 12:47 pm

Ganos Lao wrote:Just be thankful it wasn't Operation Vegetarian that got implemented.


That is such an innocent name for such a sinister plan. Probably would've been pretty devastating, even after the war. And I thought landmines were bad.

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