Would you want me on your jury?

[Xerographica]

A couple weeks ago I received a jury summons. Imagine if you were on trial for murdering your significant other. Would you really want me on your jury? Yes? No? Would it depend if you were guilty?

If you were guilty... are there any members of NS that you'd want on your jury? What if you were innocent? Which members would you most want on your jury? Are there any celebrities that you'd want on your jury?

For the last couple of weeks I've allocated quite a bit of brainpower to the concept of juries. My verdict is that our jury system is guilty of violating at least three laws...

Linus's Law (LL): Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow
Tabarrok's Law (TL): A bet is a tax on bullshit
Bastiat's Law (BL): Voluntary association brings the spring and warrant of personal interest

When Socrates was on trial... there were around 500 jurors. So it didn't violate LL as badly as our jury system does. However, the 500 jurors didn't spend their own money to communicate whether Socrates was innocent or guilty... they simply voted. So the trial completely violated TL.

I'm not sure if the jurors in the trial of Socrates volunteered to be jurors... but, with our current system, jury duty is mandatory. As a result... it violates BL. If I was forced to attend a sporting event... then chances are really good that I'd have zero motivation to pay close attention to the game. This is because I have absolutely no interest in watching sports. Just like some people have absolutely no interest in participating in this thread.

What do you think? Do you think our justice system has any room for improvement? If so, how would you improve it? Would you keep or get rid of jury nullification?

Just in case anybody is really interested in the topic... here's my very lengthy response to my jury summons.

[Kubra]

A couple weeks ago I received a jury summons. Imagine if you were on trial for murdering your significant other. Would you really want me on your jury? Yes? No? Would it depend if you were guilty?

If you were guilty... are there any members of NS that you'd want on your jury? What if you were innocent? Which members would you most want on your jury? Are there any celebrities that you'd want on your jury?

For the last couple of weeks I've allocated quite a bit of brainpower to the concept of juries. My verdict is that our jury system is guilty of violating at least three laws...

Linus's Law (LL): Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow
Tabarrok's Law (TL): A bet is a tax on bullshit
Bastiat's Law (BL): Voluntary association brings the spring and warrant of personal interest

When Socrates was on trial... there were around 500 jurors. So it didn't violate LL as badly as our jury system does. However, the 500 jurors didn't spend their own money to communicate whether Socrates was innocent or guilty... they simply voted. So the trial completely violated TL.

I'm not sure if the jurors in the trial of Socrates volunteered to be jurors... but, with our current system, jury duty is mandatory. As a result... it violates BL. If I was forced to attend a sporting event... then chances are really good that I'd have zero motivation to pay close attention to the game. This is because I have absolutely no interest in watching sports. Just like some people have absolutely no interest in participating in this thread.

What do you think? Do you think our justice system has any room for improvement? If so, how would you improve it? Would you keep or get rid of jury nullification?

Just in case anybody is really interested in the topic... here's my very lengthy response to my jury summons.

cmon wouldn't you pass a double death verdict on a guy who went around town showing everyone who stupid you were
Socrates was great, don't wanna meet him tho

[Jochistan]

You seem alright...maybe.

[Galloism]

It seems like the best way to make sure the jury verdict follows economic principles is for the prosecution and defense to pay the jurors what they think their vote is worth, and the one that expresses their preference more strongly via cold hard cash to pay the jury's price.


Incidentally, if you want to get out of jury duty, you could just link the judge to any one of your threads.

[Conserative Morality]

A couple weeks ago I received a jury summons. Imagine if you were on trial for murdering your significant other. Would you really want me on your jury?

No. I don't trust you to adhere to the rules of jury deliberation in your quest to justify your neoreactionary dark enlightenment style views.

[Dooom35796821595]

No, I'd go for a trial by panel of judges.

Nothing personal, I just don't trust my fate to twelve people who couldn't/didn't get off jury duty.

[UIJ]

You see the problem with this is, I've never been caught.

[Kelinfort]

A couple weeks ago I received a jury summons. Imagine if you were on trial for murdering your significant other. Would you really want me on your jury? Yes? No? Would it depend if you were guilty?

If you were guilty... are there any members of NS that you'd want on your jury? What if you were innocent? Which members would you most want on your jury? Are there any celebrities that you'd want on your jury?

For the last couple of weeks I've allocated quite a bit of brainpower to the concept of juries. My verdict is that our jury system is guilty of violating at least three laws...

Linus's Law (LL): Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow
Tabarrok's Law (TL): A bet is a tax on bullshit
Bastiat's Law (BL): Voluntary association brings the spring and warrant of personal interest

When Socrates was on trial... there were around 500 jurors. So it didn't violate LL as badly as our jury system does. However, the 500 jurors didn't spend their own money to communicate whether Socrates was innocent or guilty... they simply voted. So the trial completely violated TL.

I'm not sure if the jurors in the trial of Socrates volunteered to be jurors... but, with our current system, jury duty is mandatory. As a result... it violates BL. If I was forced to attend a sporting event... then chances are really good that I'd have zero motivation to pay close attention to the game. This is because I have absolutely no interest in watching sports. Just like some people have absolutely no interest in participating in this thread.

What do you think? Do you think our justice system has any room for improvement? If so, how would you improve it? Would you keep or get rid of jury nullification?

Just in case anybody is really interested in the topic... here's my very lengthy response to my jury summons.

If you were on my jury, mate, I'd get off even if I murdered the President. My defense would emphasize that, while I did not commit the crime, I support allocating tax dollars based on personal beliefs.

That or you would make a hung jury by default.

[Yunlaria]

You know if you just showed up, said you had a clear bias in a clever way, you wouldn't be going through this.

[Ostroeuropa]

No, I wouldn't.

I'm fairly confident most people would want me on their jury though.

"Does this unnecessarily violate the consent of everyone involved and waste everyones time and money?" - > Lol not guilty.

"Does this involve a flat fine, and is the defendent not at least upper middle class?" - > Lol not guilty.

"Something else?" - > Okay. Now I have to pay fucking attention. Did the prosecution prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt?

[Striton]

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[Ostroeuropa]

It seems like the best way to make sure the jury verdict follows economic principles is for the prosecution and defense to pay the jurors what they think their vote is worth, and the one that expresses their preference more strongly via cold hard cash to pay the jury's price.


Incidentally, if you want to get out of jury duty, you could just link the judge to any one of your threads.

I wouldn't want to get out of jury duty. I'd want to be able to use my power to nullify if I think its the right thing to do.

[The Two Jerseys]

You know if you just showed up, said you had a clear bias in a clever way, you wouldn't be going through this.

I guess saying "my friend's dad is a cop, and I always believe everything the police say" would be too easy.

[Yunlaria]

It seems like the best way to make sure the jury verdict follows economic principles is for the prosecution and defense to pay the jurors what they think their vote is worth, and the one that expresses their preference more strongly via cold hard cash to pay the jury's price.


Incidentally, if you want to get out of jury duty, you could just link the judge to any one of your threads.

I wouldn't want to get out of jury duty. I'd want to be able to use my power to nullify if I think its the right thing to do.

Which means you should be disqualified.

By the same reasoning you have used, southern juries can convict a man of murder simply because he is black.

[Galloism]

It seems like the best way to make sure the jury verdict follows economic principles is for the prosecution and defense to pay the jurors what they think their vote is worth, and the one that expresses their preference more strongly via cold hard cash to pay the jury's price.


Incidentally, if you want to get out of jury duty, you could just link the judge to any one of your threads.

I wouldn't want to get out of jury duty. I'd want to be able to use my power to nullify if I think its the right thing to do.

It's a time honored american tradition to duck jury duty in any way legally possible.

[Yunlaria]

You know if you just showed up, said you had a clear bias in a clever way, you wouldn't be going through this.

I guess saying "my friend's dad is a cop, and I always believe everything the police say" would be too easy.

You have to hint at it, like saying, offhandedly, "the police are great people, I have a lot of them in my family. They aren't perfect, but I tend to believe their word over others."

There, disqualified for bias.

[Striton]

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[The Two Jerseys]

I wouldn't want to get out of jury duty. I'd want to be able to use my power to nullify if I think its the right thing to do.

It's a time honored american tradition to duck jury duty in any way legally possible.

"Also, I can't serve on a jury because I'm a hologram..."

[Yunlaria]

You know if you just showed up, said you had a clear bias in a clever way, you wouldn't be going through this.

Or went up to the defendant and shouted "OFF WITH YOUR HEAD, YOU CUNT!"

That's contempt of court, which will result in a week jail time.

[Striton]

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[Luna Amore]

It seems like the best way to make sure the jury verdict follows economic principles is for the prosecution and defense to pay the jurors what they think their vote is worth, and the one that expresses their preference more strongly via cold hard cash to pay the jury's price.


Incidentally, if you want to get out of jury duty, you could just link the judge to any one of your threads.

I wouldn't want to get out of jury duty. I'd want to be able to use my power to nullify if I think its the right thing to do.

I was on a federal jury with a doctor hell bent on that. It's a tough thing to do because it tends to piss off everyone else involved.

[Coalition of Minor Planets]

You mention keeping or eliminating jury nullification. Our legal system could not exist with an elimination of jury nullification

[The Two Jerseys]

That's contempt of court, which will result in a week jail time.

Never mind what I just said in that case.

Try just telling the lawyer "I don't care if they're innocent or guilty, I'll gladly vote with whatever the majority is if it means that I can go home sooner."

[Yunlaria]

I wouldn't want to get out of jury duty. I'd want to be able to use my power to nullify if I think its the right thing to do.

I was on a federal jury with a doctor hell bent on that. It's a tough thing to do because it tends to piss off everyone else involved.

It should piss everyone off, it's not the job of the jury to let someone off because they don't like the law.

[Al-Portug]

I would want people who REALLY support innocent until proven guilty. And who have strict standards of proof.