NationStates

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35459805

Two of my favorite YouTube veterans, the Fine Brothers made really fun videos about people talking about the Internet and other geek things. I was always hoping they'd make a "College Students React" series so I could appear.

Except... They've managed to flush millions of dollars worth of monetization down the toilet by making a move that I remember quite a few people attempting... And failing miserably.

Yes... They tried to trademark reactions to... Things. Reaction videos are a genre of sorts on YouTube, one of many critical genres similar to video reviews, protected under Fair Use and other copyright protections... But, the thing about them being a genre is that they perform a specific action that isn't unique to them. They literally tried to trademark critical analysis... Very shallow critical analysis, maybe, but critical analysis nonetheless. Criticism is 50% opinion, and the human process of reacting to things... Is not something you can trademark.

Needless to say, people have reacted poorly. They've lost hundreds of thousands of subscriptions as of today.

I... I can't understand why they bothered, or how they thought this was a good idea. However, they are, surprisingly (or not, if you're of a nigh-omnipotent cynical persuasion... Like me), not the first to have tried something like this.

They join the ranks of such people as Monster.com, T-Mobile, and... Professional wrestler Diamond Dallas Page.

http://www.weirdworm.com/the-8-most-ins ... -lawsuits/

Of course, the above are nowhere near as depressing as actual existing trademarks and copyrights. Cracked speaks of the elite few to trademark really stupid things, besides the song "Happy Birthday", which I think is the dumbest:

http://www.cracked.com/article_20066_5- ... ghted.html

Plagiarism Today talks about some copyright issues for the un-enlightened (ironically, includes some of the above trademarks):

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2009/01 ... hat-arent/

Anyway, down to you, my beloved NSG: do you think the Fine Bros. had a right to trademark (... That's a rhetorical question you don't need to answer if you don't want to)? Does anybody else mentioned? Should people be allowed to make things like fanfiction and other derivative works? Should copyright be reformed? Is the answer to the previous question anything other than "yes"?

If you ask me, the Fine Bros. attempted this because of just how unclear a lot of copyright laws are, favoring the people with the best lawyers. There has been a lot of Fair Use abuse on YouTube, mostly on the side of people claiming copyright on unprotected small channels. YouTube attempted to curb this through the "copyright promise", where they'll pledge $1 million in legal fees for channels without the money to defend their Fair Use claims if there is a very obvious standing for the law. In other areas, however, YouTube has bowed to corporate pressure to crack down on "copyright abuse" on the other side of the coin, among them the video game company Nintendo, who forces anybody reviewing or analyzing their games to submit to a very unorthodox process where Nintendo can monetize advertising featured on the video. Whether that extends to educational institutions and others... I don't know.

And frankly, it shouldn't. I get that we're talking about business and I myself have pledged to the Businessman's Nuremberg Defense ("I have a mortgage to pay"), this is severely stifling critical analysis and creative enterprise. A lot of critics are also creators themselves, sometimes even when they're in the middle of critiquing.

This is the nature of "transformative works", a founding principle in Fair Use law.

Courtesy of the very beautiful princess/prince Napkiraly:

https://medium.com/@FineBrothersEnt/a-m ... .xxpid5ea1

The Fine Bros. have apologized following the backlash.

There is apparently a video of them apologizing as well.. But the ones I've found are usually re-uploads of them with fart sounds overlaid on top of them, or other YouTube-esque criticism videos.

Like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAVqSdX4UL8

They're the not so Fine Bros. now! They're not even Mediocre Bros. They're just Awful Bros for their excessive greed.

Well, at least Happy Birthday is no longer protected by copyright law.

I'd like to think that Fine Bros will suffer a huge drop in their fanbase, but then I remember that their viewers probably don't know or care about what Fine Bros does.

The Serbian Empire wrote:They're the not so Fine Bros. now! They're not even Mediocre Bros. They're just Awful Bros for their excessive greed.

Here is a video of a guy making a drumroll noise with his butt. Perfect.

They really don't strike me as business types. My guess is, their lawyers or advisors persuaded them into it, probably the same people who thought some of the above examples were a good idea.

A lot of marketing people are really, really old-school and apply old rules to the Internet.

Also, to be fair... They've SOMEHOW gotten away with it in the past.

Jute wrote:Well, at least Happy Birthday is no longer protected by copyright law.

And it only took a century and a half!

Jesus fuck, how did nobody notice that before.

Also... DISNEY! DISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!

They're so evil. T.T

Keynsinia wrote:I'd like to think that Fine Bros will suffer a huge drop in their fanbase, but then I remember that their viewers probably don't know or care about what Fine Bros does.

... Ahem... Viewers like me? People of all ages and demographics watch that channel.

I never subscribed to them (I don't subscribe, really, I just use my current YouTube channel to watch and listen to music. I don't even "like" videos most of the time unless really really like it).

Also... They've already lost hundreds of thousands of subscribers. That alone is worth a huge loss in profit... So, what exactly are you on about, sir? Did you read my OP? It took me 20 minutes.

I read earlier that they backtracked and dropped the trademarks. So, OP should be happy.

Napkiraly wrote:I read earlier that they backtracked and dropped the trademarks. So, OP should be happy.

... Why did they even try it in the first place, tho.

Also, don't tell me what to think, Napki. You aren't the boss of me... Unless you put on a really pretty dress. Then you can boss me all you want. >:3

The Rich Port wrote:

The Serbian Empire wrote:They're the not so Fine Bros. now! They're not even Mediocre Bros. They're just Awful Bros for their excessive greed.

Here is a video of a guy making a drumroll noise with his butt. Perfect.

They really don't strike me as business types. My guess is, their lawyers or advisors persuaded them into it, probably the same people who thought some of the above examples were a good idea.

A lot of marketing people are really, really old-school and apply old rules to the Internet.

Also, to be fair... They've SOMEHOW gotten away with it in the past.

Jute wrote:Well, at least Happy Birthday is no longer protected by copyright law.

And it only took a century and a half!

Jesus fuck, how did nobody notice that before.

Also... DISNEY! DISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!

They're so evil. T.T

I think that once one has a taste of wealth, they want more. I started working and now I eye higher up in the field with higher pay. Why? It's like the new drug. The drug that don't make me sick.

The Rich Port wrote:
... Why did they even try it in the first place, tho.

Shout out to money.

Also, don't tell me what to think, Napki. You aren't the boss of me... Unless you put on a really pretty dress. Then you can boss me all you want. >:3

The fame got to their head. They're idiots nonetheless.

And greed, of course. It is a rare person who is not corrupted by fame, money, or power.

Youtube is a corporate whore and the sooner people realize it and move on to something that cares about the smaller users, the better. The site's been run by mega-channels for the past few years, and it's getting truly depressing how much of it is run by corporate interests.

That and there's more of this than just the Fine Bros. Sony tried to copyright the term "lets play" despite not creating the idea of one, and Lets Plays having existed in one form or another for over a decade.

The Serbian Empire wrote:They're the not so Fine Bros. now! They're not even Mediocre Bros. They're just Awful Bros for their excessive greed.

their channel is on its last legs, its going to die off

I'd like to react to this event, but I can't or I'll get sued.

Also here's a page with their subscriber count. It isn't going well for them. Not massive, only from about 14 million down to 13.7 million, but still.

Here is a counter to show their subscriber count going down at an alarming rate, if OP is interested.

Rathikov wrote:I'd like to react to this event, but I can't or I'll get sued.

Also here's a page with their subscriber count. It isn't going well for them. Not massive, only from about 14 million down to 13.7 million, but still.

Maybe not massive in comparison to the amount who didn't unsub, but 300,000 people unsubscribing is still pretty significant.

Eltandis wrote:

The Serbian Empire wrote:They're the not so Fine Bros. now! They're not even Mediocre Bros. They're just Awful Bros for their excessive greed.

their channel is on its last legs, its going to die off

I hope so. I've always found their videos to be obnoxious, especially the ones with the teenagers.

Rathikov wrote:I'd like to react to this event, but I can't or I'll get sued.

Also here's a page with their subscriber count. It isn't going well for them. Not massive, only from about 14 million down to 13.7 million, but still.

Woah, we both posted different means of measuring their subscription loss. Sweet.

Jazz Commies and Sexy Astrophysicists wrote:Here is a counter to show their subscriber count going down at an alarming rate, if OP is interested.

It's sad to see that counter going up every few seconds.

The Wolven League wrote:

Jazz Commies and Sexy Astrophysicists wrote:Here is a counter to show their subscriber count going down at an alarming rate, if OP is interested.

It's sad to see that counter going up every few seconds.

It seems to be going back and forth. Last night it was nosediving.

The Wolven League wrote:

Jazz Commies and Sexy Astrophysicists wrote:Here is a counter to show their subscriber count going down at an alarming rate, if OP is interested.

It's sad to see that counter going up every few seconds.

Tbh I'm unsubscribing and subscribing on repeat >:D

I think Merlin makes a few good points...

Jazz Commies and Sexy Astrophysicists wrote:

Rathikov wrote:I'd like to react to this event, but I can't or I'll get sued.

Also here's a page with their subscriber count. It isn't going well for them. Not massive, only from about 14 million down to 13.7 million, but still.

Woah, we both posted different means of measuring their subscription loss. Sweet.

Mine is a long term trend and yours is their current status, so they also go very well together. I enjoy when these kinds of lucky coincidences occur.

They didn't try to trademark reactions. They tried to trademark the word "React". And duh, why wouldn't they? "Some People React" videos are quite clearly their thing, and anyone making similarly titled videos would obviously be trying to make money off the Fine Bros' fame.

TotallyNotEvilLand wrote:Youtube is a corporate whore and the sooner people realize it and move on to something that cares about the smaller users, the better. The site's been run by mega-channels for the past few years, and it's getting truly depressing how much of it is run by corporate interests.

That and there's more of this than just the Fine Bros. Sony tried to copyright the term "lets play" despite not creating the idea of one, and Lets Plays having existed in one form or another for over a decade.

There are plenty of smaller channels, and I find a lot of outside-sponsored channels are actually comparatively unpopular compared to, say... King Pewdiepie and his Empire of Random.

What super-channels can you give as examples?

Also, I think that's not fair to YouTube in general. They're a company, and they're liable if people posting stuff on YouTube is copyright, for example music or movies. However, I do agree that they should pay attention when corporations start to extend their slimy tentacles into the wallets of people who earned their money through things Roger Ebert made a small fortune out of.

The Wolven League wrote:The fame got to their head. They're idiots nonetheless.

And greed, of course. It is a rare person who is not corrupted by fame, money, or power.

I am. Suck on THAT. 8)

Ah, but seriously... It's not that hard, if you ask me. I find it's way easier to play by the rules... Until somebody tries to break the rules against you. In which case, the gloves and mouth guard come off and it's Actual Cannibal Mike Tyson time. MUNCH.

Jazz Commies and Sexy Astrophysicists wrote:Here is a counter to show their subscriber count going down at an alarming rate, if OP is interested.

I am, actually. If you guys could find the apology video, I'd be very grateful. :D

The Wolven League wrote:

Rathikov wrote:I'd like to react to this event, but I can't or I'll get sued.

Also here's a page with their subscriber count. It isn't going well for them. Not massive, only from about 14 million down to 13.7 million, but still.

Maybe not massive in comparison to the amount who didn't unsub, but 300,000 people unsubscribing is still pretty significant.

That's like 60% of YouTube titans Super Best Friends Play, my favorite channel.