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California Independence Campaign

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should California become an independent country?

Yes
140
37%
No
242
63%
 
Total votes : 382

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Perthenexia
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Founded: Feb 18, 2014
Ex-Nation

California Independence Campaign

Postby Perthenexia » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:48 pm

There is currently an effort by an organization by the name of Yes California to campaign for California's independence from the United States. This movement is on the move as they already have a candidate running for the 80th State Assembly District of the California National Party. Their reasons are plentiful but here are a few:

1. California pays excess sums of money to the federal government every FY and a lot of that money gets redistributed to other states instead of California. thus meaning less money for California's projects.
2. The state has some of the worst infrastructure in the nation but pays more in taxes than what it gets back.
3. The federal government allows certain companies like Nestle to extract water from California with permits that are expired and pay an annual fee of only about $500, and we are in a drought.
4. If taxes were kept in California it could fund the infrastructure projects we desperately need and other things such as unversal healthcare and free college education for all high school graduates.
5. California can implement a guest worker program to allow lawful immigration for those wanting to immigrate to California thus solving much of the illegal immigration problem.
6. California has rarely ever swayed a presidential election one way or the other.

An excerpt from the main page of their website:

"California is not a state. It is a nation lacking only the recognition from the international community that would make it a country. This campaign is about seeking that international recognition for our future country of California. Inspired by the people of Catalonia and other independence-seekers around the world, we intend to achieve our independence from the United States through honest referendum on the California ballot. The United States for decades has supported the right of self-determination for people around the world and we intend to hold them to their word here in California.

Why?

California was militarily annexed in 1846 and forced to join the Union in 1850. Since then California has grown significantly and has become the seventh largest economy in the world and the home of nearly forty million people. Additionally, California is a global center of innovation and technology, and a global leader in the fight against climate change. California has got what it takes to be the world's newest independent republic.

Beyond that we citizens of the United States are living in a post-constitutional era. The United States government is spying on its own people and militarizing our local police forces. We have seen presidents from both political parties use executive orders to circumvent the law, we have seen the Supreme Court rule that corporations can buy our elections, and we have seen the Congress capitulate its authority to the ever-growing imperial presidency. We have seen the Internal Revenue Service politicize the tax code, the National Parks Service mismanage our forests, the Environmental Protection Agency deny us access to our own water, and a justice system that continues to mass incarcerate our people, particularly the poor who cannot afford adequate legal representation. At the same time, our national debt has surpassed $18 trillion dollars even though the federal government is receiving record tax revenues, and our Nation's credit rating has been reduced for the first time in our history.

Where is all the money going? Not to our homeless, nor our sick. Not to our poor, nor our students. Not to our roads, nor our drought. Yet there are more than 100,000 homeless in California today, our country can't afford to provide universal health care like most other countries, there are people working forty hours a week and living in poverty, students are graduating under a mountain of debt, our roads are deteriorating, and our drought persists. At least the rich are getting richer and we might get to pick between the Clinton and Bush families for the next president. America is a mess and in decline.

Californians cannot trust the President, the Congress, or the Supreme Court to solve our problems. We cannot trust our financial institutions to engage in fair and ethical market practices. We cannot trust corporations to allow fair competition in the free market. We cannot even trust our own federal delegates to Washington to represent our needs. It is time to turn the page and write a new chapter in the story of California.

This new story is based upon the principle of the right of self-determination: that the people have the right to determine their own destiny. California's destiny lies in a future independent of the turmoil facing the United States. California's destiny lies in a future as a country that leads the world as it does today. The world looks to California for its leadership and California now looks to the world for recognition of its independence."


Feel free to express your whole opinion about is best for California. I would recommend reading the book to obtain a full perspective.

http://www.yescalifornia.org/
Book: http://www.yescalifornia.org/cf_2016
https://www.facebook.com/VoteCNP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH_dEnZCU1o
Last edited by Perthenexia on Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Esternial
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Founded: May 09, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esternial » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:53 pm

I live in Flanders so as an expert on the subject: fat chance, bruv.
Last edited by Esternial on Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Liberty and Linguistics
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Founded: Jan 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Liberty and Linguistics » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:54 pm

Californian independence? About as likely as David Icke being right.
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Wardie land
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Postby Wardie land » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:58 pm

California was its own nation in 1846, I don't see why it can't be again
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:03 pm

Wardie land wrote:California was its own nation in 1846, I don't see why it can't be again


White vs Texas
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:16 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Wardie land wrote:California was its own nation in 1846, I don't see why it can't be again


White vs Texas


A Supreme Court ruling is insufficient to stop a true independence movement.
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The balkens
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Ex-Nation

Postby The balkens » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:18 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
White vs Texas


A Supreme Court ruling is insufficient to stop a true independence movement.


For California?

Fuck no.

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Conservative Republic Of Huang
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Founded: Jul 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Conservative Republic Of Huang » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:20 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
White vs Texas


A Supreme Court ruling is insufficient to stop a true independence movement.

True, true ,true. Supreme Court will probably order referendum.
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Rhyfelnydd
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rhyfelnydd » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:20 pm

Wardie land wrote:California was its own nation in 1846, I don't see why it can't be again

That...really means nothing. But one, there is this whole nothing about succession not being allowed and all. Two, there is that whole thing about it being a god awful concept.
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Canton Empire
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Postby Canton Empire » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:22 pm

I read that if California was an independent county, it alone would have the 7th largest economy in the world
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:22 pm

The balkens wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
A Supreme Court ruling is insufficient to stop a true independence movement.


For California?

Fuck no.


I don't know if it's popular or not, but having the highest court rule against it won't stop an independence movement. I'm basing my reasoning on the Canadian and Scottish independence referendums, and how it would be near impossible for America to justify denying their own states independence based solely on the desision of five justices on a seperate case in the nation they want independence from.
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Kazarstan
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Founded: Sep 01, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kazarstan » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:22 pm

if california gains independence

rip us economy
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:25 pm

Wardie land wrote:California was its own nation in 1846, I don't see why it can't be again

Well there's no real political will to make that happen and even less military capacity. It's pretty much impossible.


Vassenor wrote:
Wardie land wrote:California was its own nation in 1846, I don't see why it can't be again


White vs Texas

Texas v. White.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:28 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
The balkens wrote:
For California?

Fuck no.


I don't know if it's popular or not, but having the highest court rule against it won't stop an independence movement. I'm basing my reasoning on the Canadian and Scottish independence referendums, and how it would be near impossible for America to justify denying their own states independence based solely on the desision of five justices on a seperate case in the nation they want independence from.

Texas v. White does not make it impossible for states to leave the union. It holds that it is unconstitutional for them to do so unilaterally. California cannot, for the purposes of the United States, simply declare itself independent.
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Dooom35796821595
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:30 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
I don't know if it's popular or not, but having the highest court rule against it won't stop an independence movement. I'm basing my reasoning on the Canadian and Scottish independence referendums, and how it would be near impossible for America to justify denying their own states independence based solely on the desision of five justices on a seperate case in the nation they want independence from.

Texas v. White does not make it impossible for states to leave the union. It holds that it is unconstitutional for them to do so unilaterally. California cannot, for the purposes of the United States, simply declare itself independent.


So something like a referendum could be used to begin the process. Yes?
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

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Quokkastan
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Founded: Dec 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Quokkastan » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:30 pm

Wardie land wrote:California was its own nation in 1846, I don't see why it can't be again

So was Mecklenburg.

Which has about an equal chance of becoming independent again.
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Skyviolia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Skyviolia » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:33 pm

I don't know about you but treason comes to mind.
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Ifreann
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Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:41 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Texas v. White does not make it impossible for states to leave the union. It holds that it is unconstitutional for them to do so unilaterally. California cannot, for the purposes of the United States, simply declare itself independent.


So something like a referendum could be used to begin the process. Yes?

Maybe. There's no set process for a state leaving the union, but since the power to make new states lies with Congress, IIRC, they would probably need to sign off on it. And one imagines that Congress wouldn't agree to grant a state independence if there was a significant number of people in that state that didn't want it to be independent, so a referendum would probably have to happen.

Alternatively they could start a civil war and force the United States to grant them independence that way, but that's obviously impossible.
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New Prague Republic
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Founded: Dec 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby New Prague Republic » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:49 pm

It's a cool idea, but it is highly unlikely.

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Noraika
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Founded: Nov 29, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Noraika » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:58 pm

Yes, and the United States should have to return the land which they have taken from the original California Republic before the annexed it, which is roughly the American Southwest in general. :clap:
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Geilinor
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Ex-Nation

Postby Geilinor » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:03 pm

This is not going to happen. "This is a post-constitutional era" is not true and it's no excuse to break the Constitution. If the California State Legislature were to pass a symbolic resolution and their Senators brought it up, that would be fine.
Last edited by Geilinor on Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Staythefout
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Founded: Aug 11, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Staythefout » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:03 pm

It ought to be...so its economy can explode and the wasteland can be annexed by mexico and let's be done with it. :twisted:
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North America Inc
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Capitalizt

Postby North America Inc » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:05 pm

Lives in California: won't happen and no one will support it. Good day.

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Paredonia
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Paredonia » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:05 pm

What is with the world these days? Why are so many sub-divisions from so many countries trying to get independence? Not only is it treasonous but it is completely unnecessary. Not a single sub-division on the planet needs or deserves independence and California is no different. It doesn't matter if Californians or anyone else wants independence, it is NOT up to them?
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