Left-Wing Discussion Thread

[Ashkera]

So "supporting the EU" is not allowed in r/socialism?

I don't like the EU, but that's a bit fucked.

r/socialism doesn't need such counter-revolutionaries such as you, anti-comrade.

That was a joke.

[Pandeeria]

So "supporting the EU" is not allowed in r/socialism?

I don't like the EU, but that's a bit fucked.

r/Communism is a Stalinist shit hole. It's a shame they managed to get to be the Communist subreddit.

But r/Socialism? I wouldn't expect that they'd ban for you supporting the EU. Oh well, I guess that's kind of a shitty subreddit to.

At least there's still r/LateStageCapitalism.

[The New Sea Territory]

Personally, I like /r/leftcommunism, /r/anarchism and lsc. I go on /r/socialism from time to time in spite of their moderation being shitty, because there are some worthwhile posts there.

[The Grene Knyght]

Wait, lemme try again.
Aragorn, son of Arathorn, in Tolkien's lotr novels, was an ararcho-monarchist.

If anarchism is the rejection of hierarchies that don't justify themselves, then how could one be an "Anarcho-Monarchist"?

He rejected his own authority... or something.... idk I haven't seen the movies in years or even read the books yet.
I honestly have no idea what an anarcho-monarchy would look like, or if one is even possible, but its a fun concept to consider. It'd probably look something like the way Aragorn acts though.

[Mattopilos]

So "supporting the EU" is not allowed in r/socialism?

I don't like the EU, but that's a bit fucked.

r/socialism doesn't need such counter-revolutionaries such as you, anti-comrade.

That was a joke.

I found that weird as well. Then again, I got kicked from it so eh xD

[Taviana SSR]

That is true in we do mean well. Most "Stalinists" are ex Trotskyists and ex Anarchists. I used to be a Trot three years ago.

I've seen a lot of Stainists glorify the famine in the Ukraine (I'm not going to get into a debate about this topic, as I believe neither side is completely correct), celebrate the mass rapes in Germany after World War II, constantly joke about Trotsky's death, express their belief that North Korea is a 'worker's state', and many other things. I hope most Stalinists aren't like this, but I've come across this a lot, and it's really off-putting.

"Stalinism" is a bourgeois demagogically propaganda term. Stalin was the true heir and greatest disciple of Lenin and champion of Marxism-Leninism. Trotsky was an agent of Hitler and Trotskyism is a tool of petty-bourgeois anticommunism.

Cold War confrontation, rather than historical truth and understanding, has motivated and characterized the Ukraine famine-genocide campaign. Elements of fraud, anti-semitism, degenerate Nationalism, fascism, and pseudo-scholarship and historical background of the campaign’s promoters underlines that this is merely anticommunist lies. Whilie it is true that there were crop failures, these were caused by enemy resistance and by the poor leadership of Ukrainian officials. To this was added sabotage by greedy kulaks, and the cumulative effect of the world crisis in depressing the value of Soviet farm exports, and a drought in five basic grain regions in 1931. The harvest of 1932 was better than that of 1931 but was not all gathered; on account of overoptimistic promises from rural districts, Moscow discovered the actual situation only in December when a considerable amount of grain was under snow. There was a famine in some regions, but it was caused by the sabotage and destruction done by the kulaks. Anti-Communists blame Stalin and the `forced collectivization’ for the deaths caused by the criminal actions of the kulaks.

Claims of Red Army raping and looting everything and everyone in Germany are untrue! When such cases were brought to the attention of officers the perpetrators received maximum punishment. Political advisers and party organizations made strenuous efforts to prevent the Soviet soldiers from avenging themselves against the Germans. For example, soldiers were instructed not to act according to the principle that because their village was burnt down in Russia, will burn down a village in Germany. It would have been a crime to do this.

Stalin said himself: "The foreign Press sometimes carries such twaddle as that the Red Army pursues the aim of exterminating the German people and destroying the German state. This, of course, is a stupid lie, and a senseless slander against the Red Army. The Red Army has not and cannot have such idiotic aims. The Red Army’s aim is to drive the German occupants from our country and liberate Soviet soil from the German-fascist invaders. It is very likely that the war for the liberation of Soviet soil will lead to the exile or destruction of Hitler’s clique. We would welcome such an outcome. But it would be ludicrous to identify Hitler’s clique with the German people, with the German state. The experience of history indicates that Hitlers come and go, but the German people and the German state remain."

[Pandeeria]

I've seen a lot of Stainists glorify the famine in the Ukraine (I'm not going to get into a debate about this topic, as I believe neither side is completely correct), celebrate the mass rapes in Germany after World War II, constantly joke about Trotsky's death, express their belief that North Korea is a 'worker's state', and many other things. I hope most Stalinists aren't like this, but I've come across this a lot, and it's really off-putting.

"Stalinism" is a bourgeois demagogically propaganda term. Stalin was the true heir and greatest disciple of Lenin and champion of Marxism-Leninism. Trotsky was an agent of Hitler and Trotskyism is a tool of petty-bourgeois anticommunism.

Cold War confrontation, rather than historical truth and understanding, has motivated and characterized the Ukraine famine-genocide campaign. Elements of fraud, anti-semitism, degenerate Nationalism, fascism, and pseudo-scholarship and historical background of the campaign’s promoters underlines that this is merely anticommunist lies. Whilie it is true that there were crop failures, these were caused by enemy resistance and by the poor leadership of Ukrainian officials. To this was added sabotage by greedy kulaks, and the cumulative effect of the world crisis in depressing the value of Soviet farm exports, and a drought in five basic grain regions in 1931. The harvest of 1932 was better than that of 1931 but was not all gathered; on account of overoptimistic promises from rural districts, Moscow discovered the actual situation only in December when a considerable amount of grain was under snow. There was a famine in some regions, but it was caused by the sabotage and destruction done by the kulaks. Anti-Communists blame Stalin and the `forced collectivization’ for the deaths caused by the criminal actions of the kulaks.

Claims of Red Army raping and looting everything and everyone in Germany are untrue! When such cases were brought to the attention of officers the perpetrators received maximum punishment. Political advisers and party organizations made strenuous efforts to prevent the Soviet soldiers from avenging themselves against the Germans. For example, soldiers were instructed not to act according to the principle that because their village was burnt down in Russia, will burn down a village in Germany. It would have been a crime to do this.

Stalin said himself: "The foreign Press sometimes carries such twaddle as that the Red Army pursues the aim of exterminating the German people and destroying the German state. This, of course, is a stupid lie, and a senseless slander against the Red Army. The Red Army has not and cannot have such idiotic aims. The Red Army’s aim is to drive the German occupants from our country and liberate Soviet soil from the German-fascist invaders. It is very likely that the war for the liberation of Soviet soil will lead to the exile or destruction of Hitler’s clique. We would welcome such an outcome. But it would be ludicrous to identify Hitler’s clique with the German people, with the German state. The experience of history indicates that Hitlers come and go, but the German people and the German state remain."

>Calls Stalin the true heir and greatest disciple of Lenin
>Stalin didn't give a shit about spreading the revolution
>Stalin discontinued Lenin's NEP
>Lenin stated he wanted Trotsky as his heir, Stalin only managed to get the part because he pulled some strings and Trotsky was fucking retarded, didn't really show the Congress Lenin's support for Trotsky
>Stalin made multiple deals with the Western capitalists and Fascists

If you want to keep jerking off to Stalin's portrait, I won't stop ya, but here we actually like things to be grounded in reality.

[Mattopilos]

-snip-

... What. I can understand needing Stalin to prop up a failing Communist state, but I would never say he was good.

[PaNTuXIa]

So "supporting the EU" is not allowed in r/socialism?

I don't like the EU, but that's a bit fucked.

r/Communism is a Stalinist shit hole. It's a shame they managed to get to be the Communist subreddit.

But r/Socialism? I wouldn't expect that they'd ban for you supporting the EU. Oh well, I guess that's kind of a shitty subreddit to.

At least there's still r/LateStageCapitalism.

And r/fullcommunism.

Yes I do browse it.

I swear I'm not becoming a tankie.

[Pandeeria]

-snip-

... What. I can understand needing Stalin to prop up a failing Communist state, but I would never say he was good.

Stalin can't prop up a failing Communist state. He just purges it's officer corps and reverts to State Capitalism.

[PaNTuXIa]

I've seen a lot of Stainists glorify the famine in the Ukraine (I'm not going to get into a debate about this topic, as I believe neither side is completely correct), celebrate the mass rapes in Germany after World War II, constantly joke about Trotsky's death, express their belief that North Korea is a 'worker's state', and many other things. I hope most Stalinists aren't like this, but I've come across this a lot, and it's really off-putting.

"Stalinism" is a bourgeois demagogically propaganda term. Stalin was the true heir and greatest disciple of Lenin and champion of Marxism-Leninism. Trotsky was an agent of Hitler and Trotskyism is a tool of petty-bourgeois anticommunism.

Cold War confrontation, rather than historical truth and understanding, has motivated and characterized the Ukraine famine-genocide campaign. Elements of fraud, anti-semitism, degenerate Nationalism, fascism, and pseudo-scholarship and historical background of the campaign’s promoters underlines that this is merely anticommunist lies. Whilie it is true that there were crop failures, these were caused by enemy resistance and by the poor leadership of Ukrainian officials. To this was added sabotage by greedy kulaks, and the cumulative effect of the world crisis in depressing the value of Soviet farm exports, and a drought in five basic grain regions in 1931. The harvest of 1932 was better than that of 1931 but was not all gathered; on account of overoptimistic promises from rural districts, Moscow discovered the actual situation only in December when a considerable amount of grain was under snow. There was a famine in some regions, but it was caused by the sabotage and destruction done by the kulaks. Anti-Communists blame Stalin and the `forced collectivization’ for the deaths caused by the criminal actions of the kulaks.

Claims of Red Army raping and looting everything and everyone in Germany are untrue! When such cases were brought to the attention of officers the perpetrators received maximum punishment. Political advisers and party organizations made strenuous efforts to prevent the Soviet soldiers from avenging themselves against the Germans. For example, soldiers were instructed not to act according to the principle that because their village was burnt down in Russia, will burn down a village in Germany. It would have been a crime to do this.

Stalin said himself: "The foreign Press sometimes carries such twaddle as that the Red Army pursues the aim of exterminating the German people and destroying the German state. This, of course, is a stupid lie, and a senseless slander against the Red Army. The Red Army has not and cannot have such idiotic aims. The Red Army’s aim is to drive the German occupants from our country and liberate Soviet soil from the German-fascist invaders. It is very likely that the war for the liberation of Soviet soil will lead to the exile or destruction of Hitler’s clique. We would welcome such an outcome. But it would be ludicrous to identify Hitler’s clique with the German people, with the German state. The experience of history indicates that Hitlers come and go, but the German people and the German state remain."

You mean the Stalin that allowed corporations from the US to use his oil fields?

[Mattopilos]

... What. I can understand needing Stalin to prop up a failing Communist state, but I would never say he was good.

Stalin can't prop up a failing Communist state. He just purges his officer corps and reverts to State Capitalism.

Exactly. He might of extended the time until it did so... but it happened, and it happened badly.

[Pandeeria]

Stalin can't prop up a failing Communist state. He just purges his officer corps and reverts to State Capitalism.

Exactly. He might of extended the time until it did so... but it happened, and it happened badly.

Well, I'd say the USSR was never a worker's state to begin with. Lenin had the nice idea of NEP which allowed for controlled capitalism, which was necessary (the Russian Empire hadn't completed a sufficient phase of capitalist development), then Stalin went ape shit and starting killin' and oppressin' everyone and just had the Party dominate the economy. This went on until Gorbachev.

I love Gorbachev because he managed to actually bring in some freedom the USSR such as religious reform and freedom of speech and press, but I also hate him because instead of actual Socialism, he just said fuck it and brought in western Capitalism. The USSR by the time Gorbachev took power was developed just enough that it could transition over to proper Socialism.

[United Marxist Nations]

Exactly. He might of extended the time until it did so... but it happened, and it happened badly.

Well, I'd say the USSR was never a worker's state to begin with. Lenin had the nice idea of NEP which allowed for controlled capitalism, which was necessary (the Russian Empire hadn't completed a sufficient phase of capitalist development), then Stalin went ape shit and starting killin' and oppressin' everyone and just had the Party dominate the economy. This went on until Gorbachev.

I love Gorbachev because he managed to actually bring in some freedom the USSR such as religious reform and freedom of speech and press, but I also hate him because instead of actual Socialism, he just said fuck it and brought in western Capitalism. The USSR by the time Gorbachev took power was developed just enough that it could transition over to proper Socialism.

Again, you're being absurd in your Stalin hate. Lenin's regime was just as brutal as Stalin's, probably moreso, since he was fighting a Civil War for half of it.

[Pandeeria]

Well, I'd say the USSR was never a worker's state to begin with. Lenin had the nice idea of NEP which allowed for controlled capitalism, which was necessary (the Russian Empire hadn't completed a sufficient phase of capitalist development), then Stalin went ape shit and starting killin' and oppressin' everyone and just had the Party dominate the economy. This went on until Gorbachev.

I love Gorbachev because he managed to actually bring in some freedom the USSR such as religious reform and freedom of speech and press, but I also hate him because instead of actual Socialism, he just said fuck it and brought in western Capitalism. The USSR by the time Gorbachev took power was developed just enough that it could transition over to proper Socialism.

Again, you're being absurd in your Stalin hate. Lenin's regime was just as brutal as Stalin's, probably moreso, since he was fighting a Civil War for half of it.

Yes, since Lenin was indeed fighting a civil war I could tolerate his actions a little more. I still strongly dislike Lenin, the Red Terror, and I think a single Vanguard Party to rule all as a mechanism for the transition to Communism is a bad idea, but I thought the NEP was good. It allowed the nationalization of some industries (which would allow heavy industrialization, particularly that of war industry), some actual private enterprise, and still allowed worker councils and unions to have power, and even actual socialist enterprise to exist to some extent. The peasants being able to keep their surplus grain, or to sell it, was also very nice.

Stalin was in a completely different situation. His great purges were completely unnecessary in any perspective, his total take over of the economy and it's subordination to the Party was bad (you said yourself in the RWDT that the State had some pretty fucking bad planning), and his total suppression of freedoms wasn't exactly all that great. When he further adopted nationalist rhetoric, that just fucked things more badly.

Basically, they were both bad people, but Lenin >>>> Stalin. And I could maybe, just maybeeee see an argument for why some of the shit Lenin and Trotsky did (during the war) was justified. Stalin on the other hand, no. I can't see any justification.

[Kubra]

Well, I'd say the USSR was never a worker's state to begin with. Lenin had the nice idea of NEP which allowed for controlled capitalism, which was necessary (the Russian Empire hadn't completed a sufficient phase of capitalist development), then Stalin went ape shit and starting killin' and oppressin' everyone and just had the Party dominate the economy. This went on until Gorbachev.

I love Gorbachev because he managed to actually bring in some freedom the USSR such as religious reform and freedom of speech and press, but I also hate him because instead of actual Socialism, he just said fuck it and brought in western Capitalism. The USSR by the time Gorbachev took power was developed just enough that it could transition over to proper Socialism.

Again, you're being absurd in your Stalin hate. Lenin's regime was just as brutal as Stalin's, probably moreso, since he was fighting a Civil War for half of it.

naw the civil war wasn't so bad, at least as a numbers game

[Nordengrund]

Would you consider Georgism center-left or center-right?

[Communist Xomaniax]

https://libcom.org/history/gay-gulag

Thoughts?

[United Marxist Nations]

https://libcom.org/history/gay-gulag

Thoughts?

Alexander Solzhenitsyn

I stopped reading here.

[Pandeeria]

https://libcom.org/history/gay-gulag

Thoughts?

How will we ever achieve fully automated luxury gay space communism?

[MERIZoC]

https://libcom.org/history/gay-gulag

Thoughts?

Alexander Solzhenitsyn

I stopped reading here.

Because yay for gulags and repression of political thought?

[The Union of the West]

Would you consider Georgism center-left or center-right?

Center to center-left, I would say.

[United Marxist Nations]

I stopped reading here.

Because yay for gulags and repression of political thought?

Because Solzhenitsyn just wanted the Soviet Union destroyed at all costs. There is a reason the Russian word for "liar" is in his name, as they say.

[-Fahrong-]

Because yay for gulags and repression of political thought?

Because Solzhenitsyn just wanted the Soviet Union destroyed at all costs. There is a reason the Russian word for "liar" is in his name, as they say.

Xaxaxa ))) Very true.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

Because yay for gulags and repression of political thought?

Because Solzhenitsyn just wanted the Soviet Union destroyed at all costs. There is a reason the Russian word for "liar" is in his name, as they say.

I would encourage you to read just a little bit farther than his name in which case.

In the mid-1930s gays flooded into Soviet camps in their thousands, and the influx apparently remained steady throughout the years article 121 was in force. Alexander Solzhenitsyn called it a 'sordid' bit of legislation. In the Gulag Archipelago, dedicated to 'all those who did not live long enough to tell the story', there isn't a word of sympathy for oppressed homosexuals. Just as there isn't in Varlaam Shalamov's Kolyma Tales. Most dissident authors, while exposing the inhumanity of life in the camps, hold on firmly to camp attitudes in their contemptuous dismissal of gays and of homosexuality in general. Until very recently the issue remained taboo. Even when revelations about Stalinist repressions began to emerge, not a single human rights activist, neither in the USSR nor abroad, was seriously prepared to tackle the problem.

Not exactly friendly to him.