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Christiaanistan
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Founded: Jun 19, 2014
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Searching for other moderates on guns

Postby Christiaanistan » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:46 pm

Hey.

I grew up in a home that always had long-guns strewn everywhere and had walls packed with various grisly hunting trophies, and there were handguns of various types really scattered carelessly: one stuck under my dad's matress, one in his truck, one in his office, and so on. However, I was also a bit of a changeling. Rather than following my father's way of thinking, I ended up adopting more modern notions. I was a child of the Information Age moreso than my own father.

If "gun rights" advocates are to be believed, there are liberals everywhere crying for guns to be banned or something. I am still trying to find one, so let me know if you see any.

The point is, we have some of the most permissive laws in the world, regarding gun ownership, and that really is not something that is especially alarming to me. I do like ideas like mental health screening and waiting periods, and perhaps things like gun shows should have more oversight. In some countries, you have to prove that you have sound reasons for buying certain weapons, which sounds interesting. Nevertheless, i am not particularly hostile toward guns.

Every time the topic of gun control comes up, it seems like the most vocal participants are outgoing "gun rights" activists, and they really ruin the discussion. They will cite several reasons why they don't agree with banning guns, yet I rarely see anyone making an argument for banning guns. The discussions end up being ludicrous.

It seems like the NRA only really exists these days to advocate laws that make it legal to shoot unarmed children and postal workers, and what some of the activists are demanding sounds ridiculous. It is more like they are trying to force guns upon you than anything. The right-wing has apparently gone freaking bonkers.

Yet I don't really have any serious concerns about guns. I am very used to them, and I really think that sensible regulation is just easier to get people to agree with, to be politically pragmatic for a moment.

Therefore, I am a fairly well-entrenched moderate on this issue, and I wonder if anyone else sees the sensibility of the "third way" on this issue.
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Paddy O Fernature
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Posts: 13802
Founded: Sep 30, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Paddy O Fernature » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:50 pm

Christiaanistan wrote:
Every time the topic of gun control comes up, it seems like the most vocal participants are outgoing "gun rights" activists, and they really ruin the discussion. They will cite several reasons why they don't agree with banning guns, yet I rarely see anyone making an argument for banning guns. The discussions end up being ludicrous...


You must not be looking very hard on NS, if you don't see people outright calling for banning firearms. Hell, I've seen... people, on this site calling gun owners everything from murderers to blood thirsty homicidal terrorists just itching to shoot up public places at the drop of a hat.

It's also hard to "ruin a discussion" by pointing out facts to the uneducated and misinformed. Unless of course, you disagree with that sort of thing.
Last edited by Paddy O Fernature on Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kraylandia
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Posts: 5523
Founded: Sep 23, 2015
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Postby Kraylandia » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:51 pm

Paddy O Fernature wrote:
Christiaanistan wrote:
Every time the topic of gun control comes up, it seems like the most vocal participants are outgoing "gun rights" activists, and they really ruin the discussion. They will cite several reasons why they don't agree with banning guns, yet I rarely see anyone making an argument for banning guns. The discussions end up being ludicrous...


You must not be looking very hard on NS, if you don't see people outright calling for banning firearms. Hell, I've seen... people, on this site calling gun owners everything from murderers to blood thirsty homicidal terrorists just itching to shoot up public places at the drop of a hat.


Well, that's NS for ya.
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GreatestBanks
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Posts: 3314
Founded: Mar 22, 2015
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Postby GreatestBanks » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:53 pm

The internet is a liberal place, not really representative of the entirety of the population at all
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In Gentem Et De Libris Scientiam
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Founded: Feb 11, 2014
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Postby In Gentem Et De Libris Scientiam » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:54 pm

I have a very nonconformist view on gun ownership. I feel that it is in the constitution to have guns... and bear arms... But no where does it say that it is a human right to own bullets... So ban bullets...
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GreatestBanks
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Founded: Mar 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby GreatestBanks » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:55 pm

In Gentem Et De Libris Scientiam wrote:I have a very nonconformist view on gun ownership. I feel that it is in the constitution to have guns... and bear arms... But no where does it say that it is a human right to own bullets... So ban bullets...

hue, gun owners will have to use gunpowder again
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Lord Tothe
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Founded: Dec 19, 2007
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Postby Lord Tothe » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:58 pm

I am very moderate. Basically, I believe in extreme moderation when it comes to legislation. Zero, in fact. http://www.gunsandweed.com/
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Jetan
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Postby Jetan » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:59 pm

I think the gun laws here (Finland) are too strict, but on the contrast the US gun laws are so lax as to be ridicilous. We should move a bit towards you and you should move a lot towards us on this issue, IMO.
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Sanctissima
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Founded: Jul 16, 2014
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Postby Sanctissima » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:59 pm

Ideally, I'd like them only to be allowed for hunting, and to ban all fully-automatic and semi-automatic guns for civilian use.

I'd settle for better gun legislation though. Specifically cracking down on the illegal gun trade, making sure no-one with mental health problems can have any gun ownership and doing some better background checks on prospective gun-buyers.

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Liberty and Linguistics
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Founded: Jan 09, 2015
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Postby Liberty and Linguistics » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:00 pm

I've never understood those who think that our fairly permissive gun laws directly correlate with gun crime.

It's as if they don't realize that there might just be other massive factors out there. Oh well, cognitive dissonance is bliss.
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Geilinor
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Founded: Feb 20, 2010
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Postby Geilinor » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:01 pm

Liberty and Linguistics wrote:I've never understood those who think that our fairly permissive gun laws directly correlate with gun crime.

It's as if they don't realize that there might just be other massive factors out there. Oh well, cognitive dissonance is bliss.

Obviously there are other factors, but you can't operate by leaving one of the large factors out of it.
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Reiynstan
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Founded: Nov 27, 2015
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Postby Reiynstan » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:01 pm

Sanctissima wrote:I'd settle for better gun legislation though. Specifically cracking down on the illegal gun trade, making sure no-one with mental health problems can have any gun ownership and doing some better background checks on prospective gun-buyers.

My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately, the loudest voices are often the ones on opposite extremities, leading to a situation where nothing is resolved at all.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:02 pm

Sanctissima wrote:Ideally, I'd like them only to be allowed for hunting, and to ban all fully-automatic and semi-automatic guns for civilian use.


Firstly, fully-automatics are already very heavily regulated and there is literally no point in banning them.

And semi-autos? Really? That's practically every gun since like 1910.
Last edited by Washington Resistance Army on Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:03 pm

In Gentem Et De Libris Scientiam wrote:I have a very nonconformist view on gun ownership. I feel that it is in the constitution to have guns... and bear arms... But no where does it say that it is a human right to own bullets... So ban bullets...

Bullet control, you say?
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:12 pm


Ah, if only ammunition wasn't so easy to make... :lol:
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Gun Manufacturers
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gun Manufacturers » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:33 pm

In Gentem Et De Libris Scientiam wrote:I have a very nonconformist view on gun ownership. I feel that it is in the constitution to have guns... and bear arms... But no where does it say that it is a human right to own bullets... So ban bullets...


Banning ammunition is effectively banning firearms, as they are useless without ammo.
Gun control is like trying to solve drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars.

Any accident you can walk away from is one I can laugh at.

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Gun Manufacturers
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gun Manufacturers » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:36 pm

Sanctissima wrote:Ideally, I'd like them only to be allowed for hunting, and to ban all fully-automatic and semi-automatic guns for civilian use.

I'd settle for better gun legislation though. Specifically cracking down on the illegal gun trade, making sure no-one with mental health problems can have any gun ownership and doing some better background checks on prospective gun-buyers.


Legally owned full auto/select fire weapons were used in 2 murders in 81 years, so the regulations that we already have is fine. Semi auto firearms are useful for hunting, target shooting, self/home defense, and collecting.

I do agree that we need to constantly work to improve NICS accuracy.
Gun control is like trying to solve drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars.

Any accident you can walk away from is one I can laugh at.

DOJ's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment: http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/fi ... -p0126.pdf

Natapoc wrote:...You should post more in here so I don't seem like the extremist...


Auraelius wrote:If you take the the TITANIC, and remove the letters T, T, and one of the I's, and add the letters C,O,S,P,R, and Y you get CONSPIRACY. oOooOooooOOOooooOOOOOOoooooooo


Maineiacs wrote:Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat and get drunk all day.


Luw wrote:Politics is like having two handfuls of shit - one that smells bad and one that looks bad - and having to decide which one to put in your mouth.

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Gun Manufacturers
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Posts: 10141
Founded: Jan 23, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gun Manufacturers » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:38 pm

Ifreann wrote:
In Gentem Et De Libris Scientiam wrote:I have a very nonconformist view on gun ownership. I feel that it is in the constitution to have guns... and bear arms... But no where does it say that it is a human right to own bullets... So ban bullets...

Bullet control, you say?


That one bit is enough that I'll NEVER listen to Chris Rock's comedy again.
Gun control is like trying to solve drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars.

Any accident you can walk away from is one I can laugh at.

DOJ's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment: http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/fi ... -p0126.pdf

Natapoc wrote:...You should post more in here so I don't seem like the extremist...


Auraelius wrote:If you take the the TITANIC, and remove the letters T, T, and one of the I's, and add the letters C,O,S,P,R, and Y you get CONSPIRACY. oOooOooooOOOooooOOOOOOoooooooo


Maineiacs wrote:Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat and get drunk all day.


Luw wrote:Politics is like having two handfuls of shit - one that smells bad and one that looks bad - and having to decide which one to put in your mouth.

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Lennia
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Nov 18, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Lennia » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:38 pm

In Gentem Et De Libris Scientiam wrote:I have a very nonconformist view on gun ownership. I feel that it is in the constitution to have guns... and bear arms... But no where does it say that it is a human right to own bullets... So ban bullets...


The ammunition is protected under "arms".

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Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:39 pm

Gun Manufacturers wrote:
In Gentem Et De Libris Scientiam wrote:I have a very nonconformist view on gun ownership. I feel that it is in the constitution to have guns... and bear arms... But no where does it say that it is a human right to own bullets... So ban bullets...


Banning ammunition is effectively banning firearms, as they are useless without ammo.


Not true. You can still collect them. :)

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Lord Tothe
Minister
 
Posts: 2632
Founded: Dec 19, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Lord Tothe » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:43 pm

Jetan wrote:I think the gun laws here (Finland) are too strict, but on the contrast the US gun laws are so lax as to be ridicilous. We should move a bit towards you and you should move a lot towards us on this issue, IMO.

What specifically is too lax? What authority do people in government have to dictate what others may or may not own?
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Fanosolia
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Founded: Apr 29, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Fanosolia » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:25 pm

I'm sort of a moderate, but far from an expert on the subjection.

My position is along the lines of I can see why gun rights are a thing, but there still needs to be provisions and things like that. So, like I don't care if you have a gun just so long as you know how to use it properly. My bare minimum/general rule is basically nationwide licencing system similar to a multi-level car license with background checks, and have individual regions decide on more stricter regulations or bans if they choose to. Basically what's advocated by the Canadian Action Party (which their site is no longer around apparently which is a shame).

Now note I said bare minimum. I don't oppose, or support any gun control stricter than that, just that's more or less my position on matter.
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Kraylandia
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Founded: Sep 23, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kraylandia » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:26 pm

Gun Manufacturers wrote:


That one bit is enough that I'll NEVER listen to Chris Rock's comedy again.


It wasn't really comedy in the first place, he's terrible.
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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:31 pm

Sanctissima wrote:Ideally, I'd like them only to be allowed for hunting, and to ban all fully-automatic and semi-automatic guns for civilian use.

Burst fire only?
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Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:34 pm

Gun Manufacturers wrote:


That one bit is enough that I'll NEVER listen to Chris Rock's comedy again.


A person challenges your viewpoint on one issue and you'll never listen to them again? Would you like a blankie and pacifier while you sit in your safe space?

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