Which Health Care System do you prefer?

[Colbert Super PAC]

The Out-of-Pocket Model. It'll prevent lazy moochers from getting healthcare that they don't deserve while keeping waiting lists short for people like me.

[Aelex]

The "Sécurité Sociale"'s one.

[ErVaReAn rEpUbLiC]

The Out-of-Pocket Model. It'll prevent lazy moochers from getting healthcare that they don't deserve while keeping waiting lists short for people like me.

Nice to have people with more contrarian views.

[ErVaReAn rEpUbLiC]

The "Sécurité Sociale"'s one.

A component of what is characterized as the Bismarck Model, then. I do understand that some people might not like the fact that the French healthcare system is classified (in healthcare comparisons) under a term with German roots.

[Daburuetchi]

The Out-of-Pocket Model. It'll prevent lazy moochers from getting healthcare that they don't deserve while keeping waiting lists short for people like me.

Clearly the capitalist parasite who gained his by trading stocks is more entitled than the man who works long hours in a warehouse performing back breaking labor to support his family and can't afford healthcare since he is paid jack shit. I like how presumptuous you are an consider yourself part of the non-moocher club.

[Immoren]

The Out-of-Pocket Model. It'll prevent lazy moochers from getting healthcare that they don't deserve while keeping waiting lists short for people like me.

Nice to have people with more contrarian views.

Satire/parody account.

[Kazarogkai]

Single payer healthcare system, akin to a national state provided insurance for all citizens and qualified immigrants. The state insurance will negotiate prices with private providers for those who are covered, it will be payed for with general taxation rather than a special tax like say payroll.

National Insurance is one of the basic components of what I believe should be apart of a Citizens Welfare system:

Social Safety Net
-Aid for the Unemployed, Seniors, Disabled, and/or Students
National Insurance
-Healthcare for all citizens, and also immigrants who apply.
Citizens Income
-Citizens Dividend, payed for via surplus tax revenue and profits from state industries(utilities, etc)
-Negative income tax

[ErVaReAn rEpUbLiC]

Single payer healthcare system, akin to a national state provided insurance for all citizens and qualified immigrants. The state insurance will negotiate prices with private providers for those who are covered, it will be payed for with general taxation rather than a special tax like say payroll.

National Insurance is one of the basic components of what I believe should be apart of a Citizens Welfare system:

Social Safety Net
-Aid for the Unemployed, Seniors, Disabled, and/or Students
National Insurance
-Healthcare for all citizens, and also immigrants who apply.
Citizens Income
-Citizens Dividend, payed for via surplus tax revenue and profits from state industries(utilities, etc)
-Negative income tax

Both the NHI and the Beveridge Model are single payer. The difference is that in the Beveridge government also run the hospitals and other health services, while in the NHI the healthcare providers are still privately run.

[Kazarogkai]

Single payer healthcare system, akin to a national state provided insurance for all citizens and qualified immigrants. The state insurance will negotiate prices with private providers for those who are covered, it will be payed for with general taxation rather than a special tax like say payroll.

National Insurance is one of the basic components of what I believe should be apart of a Citizens Welfare system:

Social Safety Net
-Aid for the Unemployed, Seniors, Disabled, and/or Students
National Insurance
-Healthcare for all citizens, and also immigrants who apply.
Citizens Income
-Citizens Dividend, payed for via surplus tax revenue and profits from state industries(utilities, etc)
-Negative income tax

Both the NHI and the Beveridge Model are single payer. The difference is that in the Beveridge government also run the hospitals and other health services, while in the NHI the healthcare providers are still privately run.

The National Health Insurance model, with a dash of the Beveridge model, seems to be the one most akin to what I am thinking of. A state provided insurance scheme for all citizens and qualified immigrants which negotiates prices for it's members with private healthcare providers and pays for it's costs with general taxation. There would be a few government run local clinics though which are meant to provide primary and preventive care for patients. These clinics would be the place you would go for monthly check ups, pregnancies, prescription medicines, and/or vaccines, etc. You know basic stuff.

[Ostroeuropa]

Qualified Beveridge Model.

I think people who refuse to take vaccinations without clear medical reasoning, or refuse to be organ donors or leave their bodies to science and similar, should pay out of pocket for illnesses and such arising from those problems.

You cannot get on the organ receiver list without being an organ donor, unless you pay, and such.

You can opt-out of the public organ donation system in whole, not in part and still be a beneficiary.

[Uxupox]

Qualified Beveridge Model.

I think people who refuse to take vaccinations without clear medical reasoning, or refuse to be organ donors or leave their bodies to science and similar, should pay out of pocket for illnesses and such arising from those problems.

You cannot get on the organ receiver list without being an organ donor, unless you pay, and such.

What?

[Ostroeuropa]

Qualified Beveridge Model.

I think people who refuse to take vaccinations without clear medical reasoning, or refuse to be organ donors or leave their bodies to science and similar, should pay out of pocket for illnesses and such arising from those problems.

You cannot get on the organ receiver list without being an organ donor, unless you pay, and such.

What?

If you are not an organ donor, you should not be entitled to receive organs for your illnesses from the public.
I would make it so people who opt out of the public organ donation system opt out entirely, rather than freeride on other peoples donations.

If you refuse to leave your organs when you die, you cannot have the public ones while you live. Though you may pay for them.

Someone needing a replacement heart who was not a registered organ donor could not receive one without payment.

[Uxupox]

What?

If you are not an organ donor, you should not be entitled to receive organs for your illnesses from the public.
I would make it so people who opt out of the public organ donation system opt out entirely, rather than freeride on other peoples donations.

If you refuse to leave your organs when you die, you cannot have the public ones while you live. Though you may pay for them.

Someone needing a replacement heart who was not a registered organ donor could not receive one without payment.

Why should I have my body desecrated and not be left alone? I would like my body to rest in piece and nobody tamper with it.

[Ostroeuropa]

If you are not an organ donor, you should not be entitled to receive organs for your illnesses from the public.
I would make it so people who opt out of the public organ donation system opt out entirely, rather than freeride on other peoples donations.

If you refuse to leave your organs when you die, you cannot have the public ones while you live. Though you may pay for them.

Someone needing a replacement heart who was not a registered organ donor could not receive one without payment.

Why should I have my body desecrated and not be left alone? I would like my body to rest in piece and nobody tamper with it.

That's fine. But then you should have to pay for organs instead of receiving them for free.
You disagree with the system and call it desecration, that's fine. I'm merely in favor of forcing you to be consistent.

[Uxupox]

Why should I have my body desecrated and not be left alone? I would like my body to rest in piece and nobody tamper with it.

That's fine. But then you should have to pay for organs instead of receiving them for free.
You disagree with the system and call it desecration, that's fine. I'm merely in favor of forcing you to be consistent.

Then I'll guess the my healthcare provider will pay for the organ I guess as my current plan does cover specific illnesses with unsavory effects. Though when I questioned the thing after death I mean't that why would I donate my body to science.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

The National Health Insurance Model.

Before Former Canadian PM Steven "Lets leave the new government with 3 Million dollar debt and then blame it on them" Harper made the "brilliant" decision of "opening it up".

[Novus America]

Beveridge Model is the best.

But from a US perspective the NHI model is probably more achievable.

I would say the Bismarck model would be the easiest for the US to obtain.

The Bismark model is the only one the US could likely obtain. I support a Bismark model at the federal level, but each state should be able to implement there own system and get their share of the funds. So a state (Vermont and Colorado most likely) could do a NHI model.

A state could do a Beveridge model in theory. But it is not popular even in the very liberal states.

The majority of Americans want universal health care. But in the US a federalized Bismark model (with NHI in some states) would be the best way to do this, keep the good aspects of what we have, and make everyone at least content.

[BPSR]

USA being the highest in private spending. Not suprised as the USA is the country of the greedy corporations.

[ErVaReAn rEpUbLiC]

I would say the Bismarck model would be the easiest for the US to obtain.

The Bismark model is the only one the US could likely obtain. I support a Bismark model at the federal level, but each state should be able to implement there own system and get their share of the funds. So a state (Vermont and Colorado most likely) could do a NHI model.

Yes, not to mention the fact that Massachusetts already has its own variant of a (albeit flawed) Bismarck Model.

[ErVaReAn rEpUbLiC]

USA being the highest in private spending. Not suprised as the USA is the country of the greedy corporations.

Ironically it's also one of the highest in public spending. Things are really messy over there.

[Kazarogkai]

The Bismark model is the only one the US could likely obtain. I support a Bismark model at the federal level, but each state should be able to implement there own system and get their share of the funds. So a state (Vermont and Colorado most likely) could do a NHI model.

Yes, not to mention the fact that Massachusetts already has its own variant of a (albeit flawed) Bismarck Model.

I must ask what type of system do you personally prefer? You already know what I would personally rather have.

Also why would a National health insurance model be so difficult to implement in the USA, wouldn't it just be effectively medicare for all?

[Anywhere Else But Here]

The Out-of-Pocket Model. It'll prevent lazy moochers from getting healthcare that they don't deserve while keeping waiting lists short for people like me.

Moral desert: Now directly proportional to wealth!

[Novus America]

USA being the highest in private spending. Not suprised as the USA is the country of the greedy corporations.

Ironically it's also one of the highest in public spending. Things are really messy over there.

The problem is not a lack of money. The problem is we do not spend it well. There are literally so many government agencies in the federal government that the federal government does not know how many there are. The federal government desperately needs to be reformed and streamlined.

The problem is we have many redundant agencies doing the same things, that fight each other for funds.

[Novus America]

The Bismark model is the only one the US could likely obtain. I support a Bismark model at the federal level, but each state should be able to implement there own system and get their share of the funds. So a state (Vermont and Colorado most likely) could do a NHI model.

Yes, not to mention the fact that Massachusetts already has its own variant of a (albeit flawed) Bismarck Model.

Because there are endless possible permutations of the Bismark model, you would have to work out the details, and continuously tinker with it. Having the states implement (the Feds merely help fund and provide some oversight) would allow experimentation.

[ErVaReAn rEpUbLiC]

Yes, not to mention the fact that Massachusetts already has its own variant of a (albeit flawed) Bismarck Model.

I must ask what type of system do you personally prefer? You already know what I would personally rather have.

Also why would a National health insurance model be so difficult to implement in the USA, wouldn't it just be effectively medicare for all?

The short term shocks to the economy as all those half a million workers employed in the healthcare insurance industry would likely be unemployed is the biggest hindrance in this case. It is not impossible to implement, just that the Bismarck Model is even easier to adopt (although serious reforms on price regulations and making the insurance industry non-profit are needed, as well as adding an additional safety net for the poor). On the other hand, the Beveridge Model would be very hard for the US to implement since it would require the nationalization of all hospitals and the like.

As for me, I'm torn between the Bismarck Model and the NHI system. I would say the Bismarck Model has the best record so far; you have countries like France, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Japan, Singapore etc. on that system, and these are all countries known for splendid healthcare. On the other hand, I do find the Bismarck Model to be a bit bureaucratic and overly complex and the idea of a simple single payer system is attractive for that reason. Because I don't want hospitals and healthcare services to be government-run, the Beveridge Model is out of the question.

The main caveat I have with single-payer systems, both the Beveridge Model and the NHI one, is that many of the countries under those system (think the UK and Canada) seem to have inferior healthcare to the countries under the Bismarck Model. Satisfaction among patients is also lower.

So as of yet I'm still undecided, which is partly why I started this thread to begin with. All I can say is not the Beveridge Model.